Abortion still under control in Poland

I agree with Paulina. Terminate the foetus.

If the woman's physical health is on the line, nothing should matter - including "fetus" viability.

As far as that "my body my choice" line...Yes to both but the medical licensing system is not. It's ours and we, through the "democratically elected representatives", decide which medical procedures are legal and which are not. For example: amputating legs and arms for no medical reason is not.

I cannot walk into a hospital to have even my little toe cut off - even if I pay for it. If I insist, they will call for a padded wagon.

So much for that bs "my body my choice" claim.

Seems is an assumption. You don't know that.


Make a judgemed based on their medical knowledge. It is not something you can vote on.

In Zlote Tarasy a woman fell from the top floor, seems to be suicide.
A Week ago in Szydłowiec 25 year old male has been tasered by the police. He died. Looks like some drugs.

Polish banks under cyber attack are Russians responsible?

We know more details and autopsy results are available now:

wiadomosci.wp.pl/smierc-ciezarnej-30-latki-prokurator-ujawnia-szczegoly-6700494304508864a

The woman was admitted to the hospital in the morning, because her waters broke. The baby was 5 months old, so it was too early. Already at that time the woman had an increased level of C-reactive protein (CRP) in her blood (it increases when there's inflammation in one's body). It means the infection in her body already started. An infection can be the cause of premature rupture of membranes (amniotic sac), btw, but that's just my guess. She was given antibiotics. The baby was alive at that time. The next day the woman's condition got worse, so an ultrasound scan was carried out - it revealed that the baby was dead. The mother also had a high CRP level, so it was decided that a caesarean section should be performed. However, the patient's condition was getting worse and despite the doctors' efforts her heart stopped.

According to the prosecutor autopsy results show that it is highly likely that a septic shock after the baby's death and infection was the cause of the woman's death and the premature rupture of membranes was the cause of the baby's death.

Under these conditions, there is no such thing as "the next day". She and the baby should be under constant monitoring and the moment the baby's heart stops she should be on the way to the operating room. Hospitals are 24/7/365 operations.

I still am puzzled by how this case has anything to do with the abortion laws in Poland. Any uncertainty should be resolved strictly in her favor and their primary mission to save her life. Polish abortion laws should matter as much as the drinking age in Alaska.

@Novichok, the woman was texting her family from hospital - she was saying that the doctors are waiting for the baby's heart to stop beating, so they could empty the womb (perform the caesarean section, I guess?) - according to her they were waiting because of the abortion law:

kobieta.wp.pl/rodzina-zmarlej-kobiety-w-ciazy-wydala-oswiadczenie-lekarze-przyjeli-postawe-wyczekujaca-6700134978001856a

"Zmarła w trakcie pobytu, w wiadomościach wysyłanych do członków rodziny i przyjaciół, relacjonowała, że zgodnie z informacjami przekazywanymi jej przez lekarzy, przyjęli oni postawę wyczekującą, powstrzymując się od opróżnienia jamy macicy do czasu obumarcia płodu, co wiązała z obowiązującymi przepisami ograniczającymi możliwości legalnej aborcji" - podaje mecenas Budzowska w komunikacie."


I agree, especially that the doctors decided to wait for the baby's death and considering the mother's condition... But that's the reality of Polish hospitals, I'm afraid, and Pszczyna isn't a big city....

Good to know. I was not trying to imply that the doctors were negligent or that the hospital was slow responding. My purpose was to show where I stand in any conflict where her health is involved. She - first and nothing beyond that. No laws, no traditions, no church or Jesus.


All accredited hospitals should meet minimum specs to get the license to open the door - heart monitors for the woman and her baby included.

@Novichok, the doctors could be also negligent and slow responding, I'm not ruling that out - that's one of the things I meant when I wrote about the "reality of Polish hospitals", unfortunately... Not that long ago one pregnant woman died because of the hospital stuff not taking her condition seriously enough and not performing the needed tests soon enough...


Oh, sure, OK, maybe WOŚP will take care of that next year then... ;/

It's similar to the case of Salvita Halappanavar in Ireland back in 2012 before we repealed our abortion laws. She was miscarrying and in agonizing pain. The doctors told her that there was no chance of the baby surviving but that they couldn't perform an abortion because 'it's the law, this is a Catholic country.' They waited for the foetal heartbeat to stop which took three days. When they finally emptied her womb it was too late to save her. She died from septic shock two days later. It was public outrage at her death that lead to the abortion referendum in which the people voted to change the law so that this situation wouldn't occur again.

*hospital staff, sorry


I want one too...

Two stupid women - great.

@Cojestdocholery, we're "stupid" because we don't want pregnant women to die needlessly? What the hell is wrong with you?

And why only "women"? There are men on this forum who share our view on this matter.

Good. I mean the outrage, not her death.

I cannot even imagine how it must feel knowing that my wife is near death but some as*hole law prevents some moron doctor from saving her life. The life-saving exemption is so non-negotiable that it takes my breath away just the thought that laws and the people who pass them can be so stupid.


These are the moments when I am not only proud to be an atheist but I honestly hate the believers and all that theological crap they bring with them to society. You want to believe? Fine. Your basement is a very good place.

So right now my anger is your fault... Just kidding...

It turns out that there were more cases like that, but those women survived, because they were taken to other hospitals (where they would be helped) by this organisation - Federacja na Rzecz Kobiet i Planowania Rodziny (they won't name those hospitals for fear of retribution):

wiadomosci.wp.pl/smierc-pacjentki-z-pszczyny-od-wyroku-trybunalu-konstytucyjnego-taki-horror-dotyczyl-kilkunastu-polek-6700519335279552a

"- W kilkunastu przypadkach na prośbę kobiet podjęliśmy interwencje. Polegały one na znalezieniu innego szpitala dla pacjentek będących w stanie zagrożenia życia po komplikacjach w ciąży. Choć wcześniej stwierdzono u nich ciężkie i nieodwracalne wady płodu, lekarze wstrzymywali procedury medyczne, dając do zrozumienia, że obawiają się restrykcyjnego prawa - mówi prawniczka."

You are stupid because you want to cure headache with beheading.
Women suppose to have more sense in that matter but you two are even worse that those men here.

Yes, we should want to die in the name of waiting for the fetus hearthbeat to stop! Wonderful idea.

I can understand different point of views but in this case how can anyone justify the waiting?

That one is enough to know that you have no reasonable arguments and in result you lost the debate with your female interlocutors. I think you are aware of it, aren`t you? :):)

Free abortion is a matter of time in Poland whether you like it or not.


When you experience a meltdown, do you always forget English and switch to Polish?? I saw it in another thread, too. :):):)

A headache won't kill me.The same as waiting had no chance of saving the fetus

Other than that, do you have any other ideas regarding the subject matter?

No, I don't. You don't die from headaches, you idiot. That woman died. The baby would die anyway, so how removing the baby and the rest of infected stuff from the womb to prevent a septic shock would be a "beheading"?


Ale z ciebie pojeb... 🤨


Yeah, it looks like it :))

There is no debate with stupid, she doesn't get what I'm saying, too complex, so either stupid or pro-abortion freak and zelot. I bet she stupid you zealot.

Now tell yourself 100 times more what winners you two are. :D
Great winners. wiśta wio! :D

@Cojestdocholery
You sir are the stupid zealot. Maybe men should be forced at 15 to have a vasectomy since they are reversible? Then when they are deemed ready or capable of having children or we are assured they will not rape, the procedure can be reversed upon marriage. Sounds brilliant and absolutely in line with those against women having control of their bodies.

I see. It seems you planned to persuade her to your views within 30 minutes. When it didn`t come off and she refused to agree, you brought up this stupidity. How about on the contrary - that you are stupid? Did you ever take it into account???? :):):)


I see you are losing the mental grip. :):) Do you really think I care what you call me? Does it change anything??? :):):) It doesn`t coz the main objective remains as always: women must fully enjoy their rights and if they don`t yet, we need to fight for it. Simple.

@PolAmKrakow
Agreed. the guy seems to be trying to justify a woman's death.

Have you memorised it? Good job.


Is stupit someone who thinks and have opnion of his own rather than follow the flock? Then I guess I'am stupid.
Zealot - is that someone who repeat 'holy' phrases rather then make an argument? That would be you sir.

Own? :):):) Your opinion is the same as cathotaliban hardliners`.


The argument is the same as always: Women must have all rights. And finito - there is nothing to argue about.

Thanks for you online diagnosis. You lot are boring and predictably irrational.

Misogynist. I called it first! Women are baby carriers and nothing else to him.

OK, I am one who will read what you want to say on the subject and will respond in kind. Go ahead...

@Cojestdocholery
"holy" phrases? Not me. No place for religion in an intelligent conversation about having control over your own body and your own right to live. No different than those who make the choice to not get or to get vaccinated.