Abortion still under control in Poland

There was no other birth control in the USSR so the only alternative to abortion for married women who coudln't afford more children was abstinence.... (not going to make husbands happy either).

The USSR humiliated citizens in lots of ways, for years there was a single bra size for all women

Nothing much has changed in modern Russia under Putin.
As far as I can see, it is "Business as usual".

ah you think that abortion belong in freedoms and rights category. What a little funny dopey!


Moving goalpost again. Is not even funny. those lefttards.

Yes, because some people don`t think that a fetus is a human being. It is their own opinion which you must respect. I am against abortion coz I believe a fetus is already a human being. So are you. But we are not the only humans who inhabit this planet - there are others who cherish different opinions. That is why you mustn`t infringe on their rights only because you disagree with them. If you do and think it is correct to impose anything on them, it is a fascist approach.

Isn`t is simple?

Abortion is never simple.
It involves many situations, circumstances and peoples mental health.
In general, I would oppose abortion wherever possible.
But I can envisage situations where it is the least worst option.
A very emotive and sad subject.

Exactly and their lacks in the brain department is not a reason enough to sling back into barbarity and backwardness of the instrumental attitude towards human life.

Beside that they base their conviction on some ideology from the 19th century. Ignoring the new scientific evidence that nullifies their narrow minded arguments.
So not only abortion-enthusiasts are an increasingly unscientific blackwood bunch they are also very fanatical in their obsessive insistence that all would be mothers can murder their own children with impunity and relish that heinous act in the name of freedom.

In that light it is a valid question - who is next on their hit list?
I would say that is clear - all infirm , fragile and old.
If their aim is to turn back the clock at least 2000 years we can expect appeal for reintroduction of slavery next! Of course with a new made up Marxist name for it.

So what freedom and rights we are talking about here?
Freedom to do as they please by those who are powerful with those are weak! Rights for the rich and strong to trample over and use as they see fit those who are not strong enough or rich enough to be able to defended themselves.


Respect needs to be earned. Nothing they have said so far has earned my respect.
They are a bunch of ignorant morons or/and some Marxist activists.


Not all opinions are equal.
Rapists and thieves if being honest would defiantly state that in their opinion they should be allowed to carry on with their activities and the state, a society and the police are just oppressive forces that curtail their rights and freedoms.

It is an obvious absurd!
The some goes for so called abortion.
If as result of your opinion a child is going to be killed your opinion can go F itself and so can you.
That what is I call simple.
Your simple is a simplicity of a simpleton.

Leftists never tell the full list. Incrementalism is their favorite weapon against what is normal and decent.

Yes,. coz to earn your respect, they would have to say Sieg Heil! and make the arm gesture. Forget it.


It is still your private opinion which isn`t shared by millions of women.


But it also refers to you, darling. You support the death penalty and promote hanging your political opponents in other threads. Here, you defend lives of fetuses. I see certain incongruence in your views. Do you see it, too?


Very simple ones - some women don`t believe a fetus is a living person. Banning abortion to them you infringe on their freedom of choice. That is typical of dictatorships and autocracies. I reject those systems that is why I must reject the ban. And I still remain negative about abortion. Simple.

No incongruence. The death penalty is given to the worst criminals AFTER a trial. When "fetuses" start committing similar offenses, they should be executed, too.

Well I would think that to those who advocate killing children and call it freedom Sieg Heil comes naturally. For them this or other leftie totalitarian ideology - same difference.


I have already said there is no equality amongst opinions so millions fools and their opinions mean nothing.
You cannot even put forward any other argument - that oh some people want it. So what?
Same people wants to kill others or rape them or torture them.
I call them psychopaths' and the law tells them it is not cool to indulge in their wants.


Only because you are a fool. I see no remedy for you alignment.
The death penalty is a punishment (or self-defense of a society) on an individual for all the bad deeds said person committed.
An unborn child hasn't done anything on anyone.
If you don't see any difference you are a far gone toltrlitrian.


Well I don't believe you are a living person you seems more akin to a zombie - a brain dead zombie. Should I be able to end you with impunity as long as I stay true to my believes?

A pregnant woman is free to do whatever she wants with her body.
Doctors are not free to do anything with her body beyond what's on the list of approved procedures. That list is under our collective control, not the woman.

There are many procedures doctors are not allowed to perform - even with the consent of the patient.

A 30-year-old woman has died of septic shock after doctors could not perform an abortion on an unviable fetus (special hat tip to the Polish Constitutional Tribunal for that).

abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/polish-protesters-blame-womans-death-abortion-law-80910893

Wouldn't that be fault of the doctors if that story is true. It wouldn't be the first time that people lied about facts to use it as a weapon in their fight for abortion.

The Polish Constitutional Tribunal has ruled that abortion of unviable fetuses is in violation of the constitution.


...or against abortion. Both sides engage in distortion and falsehoods, so let's concentrate on this case.

A little girl has lost her mother because for the current Polish government, an unviable fetus is more important than her....

@Cojestdocholery
The story is true. If you were in Poland you would know because even the Catholics are outraged.

Just stop.

No.


PiS failing to consider the consequences of one of their harebrained schemes.... let me put on my shockface...

When doctors live in fear of prosecution the government has over reached. When people die because of doctors inaction due to fear of prosecution, the government who made the laws responsible for the death, and those that advocated for the law should be charged with murder. And it only took a year for this to happen. I wonder how many deaths not accounted for due to back room abortions?

do you realize that you and others here are(is that the right expression) spinning the yarn. Aslo did you ever heard outside left propaganda about abortion as a healing method?


Do you feel a nice fuzzy feeling inside? Learn to control your feelings.

Are you saying a woman didn't die at least partly because doctors did not perform a medically necessary abortion?

What should have happened in the case in your opinion?

I'm in Poland. All I see is TV that puts spin on that. Where do you see that outrage?
We have here a nice sunny day with 10C. Not that bad for this time of the year.


I don't know what they did right or wrong. Lots of people die because of Doctors mistakes, not only in Poland.
I only say that abortion is not a healing method.

It is worth noting that cases like this helped in Ireland tipping the scale towards legalizing abortions.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Savita_Halappanavar

It is easy to have a black-and-white view on such complex issues like abortion, but the reality is more complex and requires more flexibility in order to account for extreme cases. Otherwise you end up with women dying as we were still in the Middle Ages, or women (or even children) being forced to carry their rape baby to term.


It can be one in cases where it is necessary to save the mothers life, like cutting out a tumor, especially when the baby is dead or dying and threatens to kill the mother as well. It can also be part of the mental recovery of a raped woman.

@Cojestdocholery
And if you were the doctor making the decision you should be held responsible for the death of this woman. Pretty simple when a doctor takes an oath to do no harm. When the PiS retards enact laws that cause people to die they should be held responsible. It is no different than pulling a trigger of a small arms weapon and waiting for someone to bleed out.

That case is not a good example if you are for killing unborn children. As far As I remember it was about doctors mistake. The health system, public one is not that good and even the best doctor can make a mistake.

I just don't get it. Why do you pretend to care about life? You are for killing. You don't care about some women you don't even know. All you care about is to kill some more childern - more is better.

You are jumping to conclusion here. That would be the best defence for a doctor that just made a mistake that resulted in death. Blame it on the system on the law and so on.

Show me where and when abortion was a known healing method and I will agree with you.
Women were and are passing away during pregnancy all the time, so do the children. Just becosue for the last 40 years that is a rather rare it doesn't mean it won't happen at all.

Abortion to cure that?


No, they just go with a treatment that ends the child life in the process. The only times an abortion is a solution is when pregency was extremely dangrous for a woman from the start.

Noone is "for" killing the unborn. But regrettably sometimes that is the least bad option (as in this case).


what was the mistake? not performing an abortion?

given Ziobro's jihad against a doctor that was in now way guilty of any kind of malpractice... the doctors have every right to be cautious in following even the most insane laws passed by the dingbats running the country.

@Cojestdocholery, why do you pretend to care about life? You are for killing. You don't care about some children you can't even see. All you care is a religious doctrine and all you want is for women to die - the more the better.


Not a "healing method", because that woman wasn't sick, but apparently in this case not emptying the womb in time could lead to a septic shock. It's mentioned in this article:

wiadomosci.wp.pl/kobieta-zmarla-w-22-tygodniu-ciazy-dyrektor-szpitala-odpowiada-na-zarzuty-6700223330327488a

"Nie ulega wątpliwości, że przyczyną śmierci pacjentki był wstrząs septyczny. Według źródeł medycznych, choć nie jestem lekarzem, wstrząs septyczny związany jest między innymi właśnie z bezwodziem i z sytuacją obumarcia płodu - wyjaśniła."

Really? Do you speak for all of them?


That doctor wasn't a saint, no matter Ziobro's way. What about your jihad? Against unborn children?


That should be investigated.


Is that what you call stuipid-smart? You want to sound smart but in fact you sound stiupid.
If I didn't care whether they live or die I wouldn't care about chilren being killed. Someone who doesn't care about children being killed doesn't care about the death of people he doesn't even know. That makes sense. You don't.

You are for killing and you don't care.

@Cojestdocholery, you clearly don't know what I'm for, you idiot, since you don't even know my views on abortion in general. And my comment was simply a mirror reflection of your retarded comment.

@Cojestdocholery, write in English. This isn't the Polish section of the forum.


Not to you, it seems.


Actually, my comment was smarter than yours :) But you just called your comment stupid :)) If you can't see that, it means you're retarded.