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Life and work of Stepan Bandera - controversial figure of Europe


Crow 155 | 9,030
14 Sep 2022 #1
Until some time I thought I understand all about Stepan Bandera. But, who am I to judge? Maybe I fails to grasp work of this man in its entirety. Is there something in his work that can serve Europe? For greater good? By some, maybe so. By some others, no, not at all.

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Stepan Andriyovych Bandera 1 January 1909 - 15 October 1959

> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stepan_Bandera
pawian 222 | 23,674
14 Sep 2022 #2
I understand all

What was his nationality?????
OP Crow 155 | 9,030
14 Sep 2022 #3
Good question. I don`t know.
Lyzko 45 | 9,281
14 Sep 2022 #4
Well, if one believe Wiki, he was born in Russian-controlled Galicia and was of local ethnicity.
pawian 222 | 23,674
14 Sep 2022 #5
I don`t know.

An auxiliary question, then: Was he Polish?
Lyzko 45 | 9,281
14 Sep 2022 #6
Definitely not!
I base my answer on limited research, but also on historical probability, considering where and when he was born.
OP Crow 155 | 9,030
14 Sep 2022 #7
An auxiliary question, then: Was he Polish?

Of course I can investigate now to a certain degree but, with all I knew until you asked, I again must say, I don`t know.
Lyzko 45 | 9,281
14 Sep 2022 #8
@Crow, my sources didn't indicate such, then again, he might have been adopted etc.
Not sure one way or the other!
OP Crow 155 | 9,030
14 Sep 2022 #9
Nevertheless, he played the game I tries to figure out. For himself, for Poland, Russia, Germany maybe or for Britain and Rome.
Miloslaw 19 | 4,743
14 Sep 2022 #10
Stepan Andriyovych Bandera

s there something in his work that can serve Europe?

No.
He was a Ukrainian nationalist with far right views that was happy to use German Nazis to help him combat Poles and Russians.
In my opinion, he was a right wing pragmatist, of little importance to Europe.
OP Crow 155 | 9,030
14 Sep 2022 #11
So he was excess in your opinion? A lone madman? Served nobody but himself?
Miloslaw 19 | 4,743
14 Sep 2022 #12
Served nobody but himself?

He served Ukraine as he thought best.
But, like Serbs, he got it wrong.
OP Crow 155 | 9,030
14 Sep 2022 #13
He served Ukraine as he thought best.

Here is what you previously said >

He was a Ukrainian nationalist with far right views that was happy to use German Nazis to help him

You want to say Bandera was Ukrainian nazi? That`s what you said?
Miloslaw 19 | 4,743
14 Sep 2022 #14
You want to say Bandera was Ukrainian nazi? That`s what you said?

Did I say that?
No!
I said that he was prepared to use aid from German Nazis to protect his country.
Do you have a comprehension problem?
OP Crow 155 | 9,030
14 Sep 2022 #15
So he wasn`t nazi?

A sadist then? If. If all that about his killing of civilians is truth.
Bobko 25 | 1,960
14 Sep 2022 #16
Stepan Bandera is a hero of Ukraine, and ardent defender of its sovereignty from vile aggressor nations of Poland and Russia.
OP Crow 155 | 9,030
14 Sep 2022 #17
Its right then that EU see him as a hero, too?
Bobko 25 | 1,960
14 Sep 2022 #18
@Crow

The whole world should view him as a hero. What can be more noble, as a Ukrainian, than to get rid of the Jews and Poles polluting your land? Maybe you think Hitler and Pol Pot are also bad characters? Stop making me laugh, Crow.
OP Crow 155 | 9,030
14 Sep 2022 #19
Senegal black people should glorify him, too?
Bobko 25 | 1,960
14 Sep 2022 #20
@Crow

No exceptions when we discuss the glorification of Saint Bandera.
OP Crow 155 | 9,030
14 Sep 2022 #21
haha. Then Poles scre*ing his life work. They already taking Galicia. With help of Russia.
Kashub1410 6 | 690
15 Sep 2022 #22
Concluding from what I know about Nazi's and the works of Banderists the likeliness of him being overly focused on cleaning his enviremont must have been high.

Such types of people had an overdose of a form of mentality of having things pure and clean in his surroundings, naturally leading to similar political thought. What they found despicable behaviour which they attributed to a group of people/culture just like what they used to clean and wash. They forwarded the same type of solution of when cleaning a house (very simplistic approach which could be easily understood and sway simpletons). Just like cleaning tools and pots (washing, steaming) and burning up garbage etc.

His view was to clean the Ukrainian society of what he considered Un-Ukrainian basically. Similar to Nazi's with regard to unwanted elements...

Banderists probably saw it more spheres then purely biological which Nazi's saw it in a much larger degree. But, that would have to be confirmed by a Banderists ideologist, to be more sure about it.

Nazi's generally had an approach of cleansing society like a doctor/engineer approach. Forgetting that with too much clean hygiene and too little contact with "bacteria" or what they would classify as "filth" their resistance would fall to such levels that any wrongdoing or sickness would kill it.

Which is why one of the reasons Polish society has a very strong "resistance" is because of constant internal conflicts which are handled in such a way that it's not fatal for Polish society.

While other societies cleanse internal turmoil to such degrees that when it happends, it leads to falling apart. (Societies with strong tendencies to having Order above all else fall in to such traps)

Which is why U.S.A has a lot of internal conflict, but able to not only resist foreign aggression but also seek it out and combat it without falling apart. But, not for as long as some leaders would like to within the U.S.A

Basically combating over the top feelings of disgust
Bobko 25 | 1,960
5 May 2023 #23
Found a good book, written by a Pole.

Stephan Bandera: The Life and Afterlife of a Ukrainian Nationalist - Fascism, Genocide and Cult by Grzegorz Rossoliński-Liebe.

I am very grateful to this Pole, for the book he wrote.

For example, one of the main arguments of Banderists is that he was an innocent martyr for Ukrainian freedom while sitting in a German concentration camp. Essentially, that he had been fooled by the Germans into believing that they would grant independence to Ukraine. Well, here is an excerpt from the book:

After being taken to Berlin in early July 1941, Bandera and Stets'ko offered much less resistance to the Nazis than nationalist historiography and Ukrainian nationalist propaganda portrayed. They tried to repair the relationship with the Germans, encouraged Ukrainians to collaborate with Germany, and tried to persuade the Germans that they needed and should keep the government established by Stets'ko. In an open letter dated 4 August 1941, Stets' ko encouraged Ukrainians to help the German army in its struggle against the Soviet Union and hoped that the Nazis would accept the Ukrainian state, when they eventually controlled all Ukrainian territories.

Ahahahaha!
Alien 18 | 4,772
5 May 2023 #24
encouraged Ukrainians to help the German army in its struggle against the Soviet Union

Did Bandera already sense that russia would be Ukraine's mortal enemy?
Bobko 25 | 1,960
5 May 2023 #25
Here's another excerpt, which shows the very enlightened approach towards Jews practiced by OUN-B militias:

Eliyahu Yones was seized on 12 November 1941 by Ukrainian policemen in Lviv. After he was beaten and robbed by them, a German officer asked him some questions concerning his occupation. Together with other Jews, Yones then had to stay with his face to the wall, and hands on the wall, for several hours. During this time, the Jews were further beaten and humiliated. After several hours they were driven by truck to a bathhouse, where they had to hand over the rest of their belongings and then:

In the evening, the light was switched on [in a hall of the bathhouse]. Suddenly, we received a new order: "sing".

In the middle of the hall, many Ukrainian men gathered and later, Ukrainian women also came. They took delight in the singing and it was obvious that they looked forward to the upcoming events.


Thank you Grzegorz Rassoliński! Now every PF member can know exactly what type government they support, next time the Ukrainians host a Bandera March through Kiev or Lvov.
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,810
5 May 2023 #26
What is the problem here?

Stalin killed MILLIONS for Russia...to fight enemies, russian and foreign....he is still a hero for many Russians....and Ukrainians aren't allowed to have a hero doing everything, even deals with the devil, for his peoples and country's independence too?

As far as I know Bandera wasn't even in the same league as any other mass murderer of that time...most in the West even never heard of him....could someone explain?
Bobko 25 | 1,960
5 May 2023 #27
could someone explain?

Stalin didn't care about Russians, Georgians, Poles, Jews, Martians... Stalin only thought in categories of influence, leverage, control. He never wrapped his murderousness in a guise of martyrdom or heroism. Instead, he preferred to do it quietly, in the night, and not to be shared with a soul until years after his death

Today, even the most autistic Stalinist, does not try to justify the excesses - but instead focuses on industrialization, rearmament, the war, etc.

Bandera is another fruit entirely. His mission was a Ukraine free of Russians, Poles, Jews and Gypsies. He allied himself with the most murderous regime in human history. His supporters perpetrated mass terror against millions of people. His name is glorified in modern Ukraine as some Joan de Arc or George Washington.

A quote @Alien:

Modern Ukrainian nationalism, as manifested in the late nineteenth and early twentieth centuries in Galicia, became increasingly hostile to Poles, Jews, and Russians. The hostility to Poles was related to the nationalist interpretation of their socio-economic circumstances, as well as the feeling that the Poles had occupied the Ukrainian territories and had deprived the Ukrainians of a nobility and an intelligentsia.
Bratwurst Boy 11 | 11,810
5 May 2023 #28
He allied himself with the most murderous regime in human history.

....yeah well....so did Stalin, for a while....

His mission was a Ukraine free of Russians, Poles, Jews and Gypsies.

....that I don't understand....the nationalities? Aren't the Ukrainians the same ethnicity as Russians and Poles??? Didn't you call them cousins or brothers once?
Bobko 25 | 1,960
5 May 2023 #29
Aren't the Ukrainians the same ethnicity as Russians and Poles?

Don't know how you define ethnicities... I think most people would say these are different people, while some Russians might say that Russians and Ukrainians are the same (DNA mapping also proves this to a large extent). If you believe that Slavs are a separate race from other white people, then yes.

They are definitely cousins/brothers, but still - as is evident - some of them act like the brother that wants to cut himself off from the family.

Not sure if Poles are considered cousins/brothers in the same regard. It's more broad with the Poles. Like second or third cousins, I suppose.
mafketis 36 | 10,799
5 May 2023 #30
Bandera is another fruit entirely

Remind me... when was he in a government making policy decisions?


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