Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps'

My dad and myself was born in Germany drotmund, my mother is of Polish origin and myself live in dumb place called England.

I studied history of Europe for many years, I travelled through it and lived in about all of the European countries for at least a bit.

Poland should change its thinking. From under Russian rule it became scape goat of Europe a cheap labour supplier.

Poland became free country isn't forced to be a lapdog of the West and if I was Polish president or pm I would look more east and start making business with Russia. Not as its lapdog but equal partner, and I'm sure Russia would be happy about it polish are still angry at Russians. Yet if there was a war Poland will be left on its own just as it was in wwii and I.

This whole mess is just another occasion of PiS prioritizing domestic appeal over the diplomatic standing of Poland.

I've just caught up on today's news, and it's hard to disagree with you on this. I don't see what else PiS can do right now - the damage has been done, the media is having a field day bringing up stories of how some Poles did bad things during the war, so...what else can they do but pass the law and hope that it passes over?

Speaking of which, our favourite British-Israeli is still not supporting the Polish government on this one, and even appears to be taking the Israeli line - twitter.com/MrJonnyDaniels/status/958976375632924673 - look at his response about how the Israelis (according to him) didn't see the bill before it was published. PiS are saying that Patryk Jaki was responsible for discussing it with them, so someone is clearly lying.

Trump.


Let me guess, nobody will give a damn about this farce.Cancel the $20bn Patriot order, buy European instead if the yanks want to get ****** about it.

This is far too important to back down from.

Jews are pulling out their ambassador :))) This is too funny.

hope we get those patriot missiles from USA in time.we might need em soon

Well they have passed it, now it's just up to the president to sign it. Since he has been talking so much about how we can't back down from this, it would be strange if he didn't. The only reason I could see him not would be if the threats from the USA have gotten to him, but then he'd get major backlash for it in Poland for it.


I've never trusted him and always believed he was only interested in what he can get out of this 'friendship' for Israeli, but I would have thought he would keep that quiet and not make it darn obvious. Instead, he goes on Polish TV and does interviews with Polish papers, saying both sides should calm down and try to work it out and that it's just a misunderstanding - then on social media he does nothing but talk about how wrong Poland is with everything it does.

Whole problem with the phrase "Polish Death Camps" is that it falsely (if unintentionally) misrepresents the facts, namely, that they were not "Polish", but in actuality, German death camps which merely stood on what is nowadays Polish soil.

This oughtn't be that difficult to grasp now, should it?

It shouldn't be and most people you would think, understand this, but some [perhaps those not from Europe] don't and if they hear that incorrect terminology, they will think that they were actually Polish, hence why I think the government want to take a harder stance on this, because people are tired of having to explaining it over and over. Although it's more to prevent deliberate untruthful provocation than somebody using the term by mistake.

Bravo PiS for doing what is right and putting Poland's interests first!

Why don't you compare Poland's admirable human right's record and high standing in the world to that of universally detested racist, fascist, apartheid Israel?

How many countries in the world solidly back your tin-pot Zionist regime (particularly during UN resolutions)? What is it, just America and a couple of their far-flung dependent island territories in the Pacific Ocean which nobody every heard of before?

Yeah.

Anyway, I've said it before and I'll say it again - your self-important Israel is an international pariah.

Only sleazy, corrupt racist politicians and socially awkward, low IQ, racist religious fanatics in other countries give it any serious attention.


Good riddance too. No one in Poland will notice. Indeed, how many average Poles can even name the Zionist regime's ambassador?

Diplomatic relations haven't even lasted that long having started only in the late 1940's, being stagnant during the Cold War, and only resuming again in the 1990s.

Trade between Poland and Israel is insignificant and unimportant.

I do not care for the law itself, nor do I care if it offends Israel or others per se. But annoying Israel seems to be a bad idea when the American president (whom Poland desperately wants as an ally) seems to back Israel in everything they do. Creating a possible conflict with the USA can hardly be in Poland's interests. Especially not after they have already been bumping heads with its' European allies.

If you are worried about Russia, you'd better not start offending the countries that could offer you support. That is just common sense.

How is the law going to work?

If I say and publish anything in France, for example, then no crime was committed in Poland or under Polish jurisdiction, so I presumably couldn;t be prosecuted even I later went into Poland.

So wont the law only apply to people already within Poland, who are less likely to use the phrase, rather than the actual 'targets' of foreign publishers, media, bloggers and commentators?

If the law is protect Poland's reputation, then it surely has no power at all, as it cannot prosecute the people who might want to attack the reputation.

Which all suggests that this is an agenda by the govt to deliver a purely domestic message and make people feel aggrieved, rather than intending to have any actual effect.

The irony is that virtually everyone already knew that the camps were Nazi on occupied and enslaved Polish territory, and hardly anyone had ever heard of the Jedwabne massacre. But they sure as hell know about Jebwabne now, as it's being discussed as the counter-point to the camps: bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42898882

Very good summary. That's exactly how it's playing in the international media. People get the point, but it seems very heavy-handed and a bit too defensive (there's a saying: The Lady Doth Protest Too Much). The best strategy, if truth were really the objective, would be diplomatic and cultural. A film like The Pianist, and a series like The Nazis, A Warning From History, or The World At War, did so much more than this law ever could - in fact the law and its handling is undermining the issue it wants to promote.

Although PiS seems very good at domestic politics, it seems to be spectacularly bad at international affairs and handling of allies.

So that is how the world should be run?

Don't annoy Israel anybody! They'll get America after you!

F that!

Poland is a sovereign nation. If America were a genuine partner which truly believed in freedom and democracy then it would respect the will of the fairly elected Polish government with a large mandate and high approval ratings from the Polish people.

Salomon Morel

Can we say that the camps were actually Jewish as in set up and operated by Jews?

Can we say Japanese Nuclear Explosions over Hiroshima and Nagasaki? That (genocide) happened in Japan. To me that was American Genocide commited on Japanese civilians.

Of course not. But the world is messy. The only thing between Poland and Putin is an America currently led by a manchild, who bankroll Nato and care more about Israel than they do about Poland. That's just the way it is.

Poland also has EU protection, but EU defence is basically the UK (leaving, long way from Poland), Germany (Poland keeps kicking them) and France (Poland p1$$ed them off massively by pulling out of the defence contract).

Poland needs powerful allies and alliances, and right now it is losing or damaging them at a spectacular rate.

The sad fact is that this law and the escalating row with Israel (and so America) was unnecessary. It's the law of unintedned consequences - designed to bolster support for PiS at home, but has unexpectedly damaged Poland and could erode the future safety of Poles. Not really worth it, is it?

That is actually perfectly understandable in its meaning.

So we should accept Americans talking about Polish Death Camps and Israelis acting like Holocaust was only a JEWISH thing? LolOLLoloLOollO

Please enlighten me. How many citizens of the country of Israel died in German Death Camps based in Poland?

If this guy is British to you then ill say 3 millions of Jews were Poles and not Israeli. That makes it 6 millions of POLISH souls died in Holocaust. WTF has Israel to do with that?

i meant this guy



They were considered Poles and treated just like that. Jews came to Poland since 13th century when they were BANISHED from Germany and France. We accepted them into Poland and treated them equally . ALWAYS.

If i bomb London tomorrow killing 8 million will you say 8 million of BRITS died in London? I bet that less than 50% of people living there have anything in common with Britain.

Because Israel is a Jewish state, founded by holocaust survivors, as a direct response to the Holocaust.


Where has anyone said that?

The Holocaust was primarily aimed at eradication of Jews, and Jews were the biggest cohort of victims by far, regardless of nationality. The stated aim of the Holocaust by the nazis themselves was not 'eradication of Poles'. They specifically said it was about a final solution to the 'Jewish question' (NOT the Polish question). They had other plans for Poles as a group, but the Holocaust was not it.

I am not able to tell the religion or nationality of the man in the picture you posted.

Ah, I see, you're one of those 'blood and soil' racialists. The Nazis used to talk like that.

What can you mean by 'in common'? Does living there not qualify?

No it wasn't. Hitler wanted to kill ALL POLES TOO.

In common i mean looks, ethnics, faith, religion and most importantly what they consider they are themselves., Like Polish Tatars consider themselves (and prove) Polish regardless of being muslims. Most Jews killed in German Death Camps CONSIDERED THEMSELVES POLES not Jews. Do you believe 8 millions of Londoners are Brits? Or maybe they're Jews? Or maybe they consider themselves Vietnamese but after they're dead it's you who decide they're Brits?

All the more reason then that Poland shouldn't care what international basket-case pariah Israel or their Zionist stooges over in America think.

There is not one instance in Polish history of America doing anything to protect Poland from her enemies anyway.

Israel isn't in Europe. Israel isn't part of the EU. Israel isn't in NATO.

If a promise from America to Poland depends on psychotic, narcissistic Israel's say-so then America is no friend to Poland at all.


The Zionists still do.

No, he wanted them as a slave labour workforce. Hence Poles were mostly deported to the eastern region, not to the camps. However, for the Jews, the policy was eradication, in the Holocaust. They were all sent to camps, none to open regions.

Very well, if you publish some lies about Poland during WWII. You can forget to take your holiday in Poland. Even to change your place in Poland could be a problem.

@all

By the way. Poland doesn't need an embassy in Israel. Neither Israeli ambassador is needed in Poland. Kick her out for a good measure. Ah all those business deal with Israel, kiss is good bye.

See if Israeli lobby in USA is strong enough to pull a quickie on Poland. maybe some 'red-necks' and Trump should show them that America won't do any dirty job for Israel for some shekels. Those who are so keen to take them Jewish money are surely not acting in American best interest.

-@delph
Johnny Daniels it surely sound like a bad Joke from those James Bond novels.

The problem is that Poland is fast running out of friends if PiS continues with its' current course. That would be fine if Poland was an island like the UK, but since PiS openly considers its' neighbour Russia as a threat, one has to question the wisdom of alienating its' allies like this.

@Ironside


Are we talking about the same government that showed unwavering support for Israel Jerusalem-question? And you think that the same government would not side with Israel over this too?

You're correct in all of this. But despite all of that, American is still the best defence that Poland has. Followed by Germany.

Let's be honest, there is no way that Poland alone could resist a Russian invasion and attack. There is no way that it could resist the sort of semi-invasion seen in Ukraine. The only reason that Putin is not mobilising further west is the possibility that American and Germany/UK/France would respond.

The more Poland estranges itself from these countries, the more vulnerable it is.

It's not fair, it's not right and it's not comfortable. But is IS true. So Poland needs to play a more diplomatic game, purely in its own interests, because Poland does not alone hold the cards to its own security. It needs its friends, even if they're orange-tinted a$$ h oles or former occupiers. On balance, Putin is far, far worse.

Well, lets call it bluff and see if USA mean it. If they do, Poland should already put it hand on some nuke or a few.

You mean using the proscribed term? Why would it be a problem being in Poland? How would the law apply? If it wouldn't apply, then there is no real problem is there?