Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps'

@Atch

Why? As i explained before they were a foreign presence. They are not poles by blood and felt little loyalty and patriotism for thr country. Not all of course as yes there were jewish soldiers but most jews had a feeling of somewhere between neutral to hatred toward poland. They came to polamd begging to be let in after every other country kicked them out ans they had nowhere to go. Just like the parasitic migrants coming to europe today, they too did not assimilate. They set up their ghettos, spoke yiddish not polish which most didnt bother to learn, and attended yeshivas not polish grade schools or high schools. Furthermore, and i think this is the most important, jews leaned towards communism as it was esp popular in intellectual circles. Indeed most of tge figures in the bolshevik revolution were jews like trotsky, lenin, etc. This is why jews were so quick to ally with ussr and kill ak members.

And so it remains to this day with zionists siding with far left commies to help them establish a new world order. Luckily iran russia amd china has thrown a monkey wrench in their plans.

I was actually speaking to Ironside. But why do you think, as you've raised the subject, that Jews in Western Europe were so different to Polish Jews? So much more integrated into mainsteam society despite retaining their faith and religious practises?

first ,cus of their number..some polish cities had like 40% of jewish population.they lived in their own ghettos,having own law,language,leaders,schools ect.

in western europe they were watered down,therefore forced to blend into host nation.methink

Depends on the jews. To this day some jews in new york still dont have wifi in their homes and only stick around their own kind. The west was more cosmopolitan and wealthy than poland thus allowing the jews to apply the same types of usury on a larger scale as they had for centuries which is the primary eason why they were kicked out of every european country, not because of racist catholics believing in blood libel. They applied the same tactics and set up the federal reserve in the early 1900s i believe 1914. This gave them defacto control of us ever since. Indeed, rothschild leveraged such connections to drag us into ww1 after being promised palestine by the brits. Ever since the creation of the zionist run fed the value of the dollar has declined, gold standard was eliminated amd even made illegal at one point, and to this very day the fed is disproportionately run by zionist jews. Nearly every fed president since its inception was a zionist jew as well. Later came other zionist scams like the war on terror to further dupe americans of more shekels to be sent to israel - which receives more money from the us than the entire african continent despite being far poorer.

As the zionist jew rothschild once said - give me control of a nations money and i care not who makes the laws

Its the same tactics in poland, only instead they used the soviets to help them gain power and take over the most inportant institutions like the ub which gave them a license to kill, and kill they did - thousands upon thousands of ak members who had set up zegota just years before specifically to help polands jews. That did not matter to the commie zionist jews who betrayed poland, granted they had little to no loyalty to begin with, but certainly zero gratitude for the same peoples who had helped them.

It od course wasnt all jews. 100% did not join the soviet backed organizations like al or join the red army. However, the amount of jews who did fight alongside the ak, polish ii corps, etc were a minority. And out of those who did fight, most deserted esp out of the polish ii corps. And no, it wasnt that polish officers let them go awol or desert, they simply didnt pursue them as they were already in anotger continent and were more focused on the future battles at hand.

Well I'd say myself that it had more to do with the fact that the Jews of Western Europe were emancipated and enjoyed almost full equal rights whilst in the partitioned Poland of the nineteenth century they didn't. It was in 19th century Germany that the Reform Jewish faith began.

some basic info for Israelis in regard of collaborating with Nazis :
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judenrat
" that without the assistance of the Judenräte, the registration of the Jews, their concentration in ghettos and, later, their active assistance in the Jews' deportation to extermination camps, fewer Jews would have perished because the Germans would have encountered considerable difficulties in drawing up lists of Jews. In occupied Europe, the Nazis entrusted Jewish officials with the task of making such lists of Jews along with information about the property they owned. The Judenräte also directed the Jewish police to assist the Germans in catching Jews and loading them onto transport trains leaving for Nazi concentration camps."

sent it to Netanyahu cretin,no too late to get some knowledge,so he wont have to talk out of hes arse

You've named one person. This does not mean that others didn't desert the army without permission. The fact that General Anders gave instructions not to pursue them, shows good will on his side and how much of a decent guy he was.

@delph

Just to make another comment on this whole Daniels and other Israeli representatives swarming around PiS issue. Here's my theory. In my opinion, the shake up/reconstruction, in their minds, was going to be good for Jews and good for Israel. Beata Szydlo is too Polish, too patriotic and too Catholic [and has a son who is a Catholic pries too]. She's like a good patriotic Polish mother, who cares about her country. Morawiecki, in their mind, was an international man from the banking industry, easier to communicate with [since they don't speak Polish], has a Jewish aunt [that they read way too much in to] etc. They thought they could talk him in to doing more things they wanted. This is probably one of the reasons Beata Szydlo wasn't invited to this now famous meal that many PiS politicians attended [wearing yarmulkes], even though she was still the PM at the time. Morawiecki was invited though, along with some others from PiS.

I also think they expected Duda to be far more Jew-friendly too, given that his wife has a Jewish background. I think they underestimated the Catholicism, patriotism and Poland-first attitude of the government, and both Morawiecki and Duda being for this IPN anti-defamation law has surprised Daniels and co a lot. I hope it's a sign of things to come and a message to them that they won't be able to wrap the PiS politicians around their little finger, not that I would expect them to stop trying.

@Atch

You realize that austria and germany were 2 out of the 3 partition powers? And to my understanding reform judaism is a much more recent movement.

The jews had equal rights as poles ever since they begged to be let in. There were laws against forced baptisms for example under penalty of death. In the 1900s jews continued to have the same rights, arguably more than poles. They were free to establish their own parallel structures like schools, leadership councils, etc. They operated as a sort of jewish state within a polish state with near full autonomy. If a jew wanted to go to a polish school or join the polish military or government, they could. If they wanted to instead go to a yeshiva and study to become a rabbi they could as well.

Actually the partition powers took away much of those freedoms as they launched a campaign to either russify or germanify all those living in poland - including jews. However, even at that time there was a disproportionate amount of jewish judges, prosecutors, etc in germany so in a lot of cases they remained free to live as they felt.

I named him because he was specifically cited as a desterter which he wasn't. As to the others, obviously it was a case by case basis and it's impossible to determine. Some Polish soldiers were sympathetic and agreed with it, some didn't. Even Anders had an ambivalent attitude and there is definite documentary evidence that he in fact put a ceiling on the recruitment of Jews for political reasons. There are always wheels within wheels in these situations. At one point he wanted no more than 5% Jewish enlistment.

For number of reasons:
- no Polish state.
- sectarian upbringing


Because there was so much fewer of them.


Right, the Problem is that a part of Poland had been 19the century Germany.
Anyway it has much to do with industrialization and a fact that Jews were less numerous. In 19th century Warsaw you could find Jews from all social strata, from criminals, bum, pimps, ******, to workers, doctors, lawyers, bankers and industrialists . Thing is there were like few cities with opportunities, most were living in small villages, townies and such.

What sort of "the now famous meal" was it? Where and when did it take place?

What evidence?
I know there was some Soviet NKVD types telling this to Jews that wanted to enlist to Polish Army while they were trying to put barrier for them ( in Soviet Russia at the time)..

I have heard a specific reason for this 'ceiling on recruitment of Jews' as you call it. At one stage he was being advised to take only Jews in to his army. The advisor was of course Jewish and the reason for advising him to take Jews, was so they could get the heck out of where they were, and then eventually make off to Palestine. He decided it wouldn't be fair to take just Jewish recruits [or a majority of Jews] and perhaps decided to limit the amount he did take. I never heard of this 5% cap you speak of though.


You didn't know about this? I thought it was common knowledge. It was last year in November I think, or whenever the ceremony with Holocaust survivors and representatives of the Israeli and Polish governments took place in Torun.

Type in 'PiS szabasowa kolacja' in to Google images and you will see it.

looks like Israel is backing down:

"Israeli Education Minister: I want every Israeli child to know that the camps were German" Naftali Bennett.
he is leader of far right party in Israel and he was in strongest words hostile to Poland recently in regards to this new legislation.looks like he comes to his sense

Yes and no. The largest Jewish populations lived in Warsaw and Lodz. Lodz is still like the 'Jewish capital' of Poland. There were some jews that lived out in the countryside prior to the war and a lot of the city dwellers moved out to the countryside at the outbreak of the war. They would hide in forests and would loot and pillage villagers' homes. The AK was sent into numerous towns to do patrol due to all the jews that would plan hit and run attacks on peasants.

When did he say that? I know he said something quite similar a while ago, about how the children in Israel need to be taught the truth that how the camps were German, but also that there was Polish collaboration with the Germans. Are you sure this is not just that statement and you have noticed it late?

After saying that he wanted to come to Poland and show proof of how the Polish people murdered Jews, so Poland told him to F off and the visit didn't happen.

today
tvp.info/35938300/minister-edukacji-izraela-chce-by-kazde-izraelskie-dziecko-wiedzialo-ze-obozy-byly-niemieckie
this is this guy who was banned from coming to Poland few days ago.
one week ago he said he wanted every child to learn that Poland collaborated with Nazis..today he speak different tone

Soviets encouraged Jews to join the AL and Red Army. With the exception of the Polish II Corps which had very limited support from the Soviets aside from being given safe passage so they could link up with the Brits, the Soviets despised any Polish force that was loyal to the government in exile. It would make no sense for the Soviets to tell the commie leaning Jews to join an army that was under the command of a rival. Instead, they encouraged them to join the commie ussr-backed AL.

The jews of course would later turn on Poles - especially AK/NSZ soldiers who had just recently set up Zegota just to help the Jews. The majority of Jews loyalties' did not lie to Poland. It was first Israel and other Jews followed by commie groups whether it be the AL, Red Army, or later UB which gave them a license to kill which they definitely took advantage of to kill real patriotic Poles - the AK - not some foreign commie group of thieves and rapists (the amount of rapes of Polish women by the commie Red Army is staggering) like the AL or Red Army.

What Poland needs to do is carefully research the crimes i.e. murders of AK members by Jews. The world needs to know the scale of the atrocities communist Jews committed against the most patriotic Poles. Every Polish child ought to learn the true history of the Jew's betrayal of Poland and the AK fighting on both Poles' and Jews' behalf by collaborating with the Soviets. The Zionists want to talk about how Poles collaborated with the Nazis and harmed Jewish people, perhaps we should talk about Jewish collaboration with commies and Red Army and how the Jews killed thousands of AK members and ordinary Poles in the immediate years following WW2.

Hmmmm. I didn't see the full interview because I make a point of avoiding TVN24 whenever possible, but it seems his only positive comment was about that it is true the camps were German [something that is obvious]. He said nothing about accepting the IPN law or that the Polish state did not collaborate with Germany.

That is up for debate. Whether he was ambivalent or not cannot be determined as he is dead. As a general, I highly doubt he took cowardice and desertion lightly. That's the worst thing a soldier could do is desert. It's one thing to disobey an order, a totally different thing to desert/go AWOL.

He likely didn't pursue them because they were in Palestine when they deserted - foreign territory to say the least. Plus, it is likely the British told them not to pursue their deserters as afterall they had been kissing Zionist ass ever since the balfour declaration decades before. Palestine was already technically British territory as the balfour declaration was signed during ww1. Anders likely didn't bother to pursue them because either he was told by the brits not too (likely after Zionist intervention) or he thought it was more important to focus on the upcoming battles than chasing a few thousand Jews in a foreign territory owned by the british thousands of miles away from home.

The sad thing is that Israel made a monument that honors these deserters and heros.. pathetic...

he did :
"The Israeli Minister assured that he supported - as he said - the main component of the Act on the Institute of National Remembrance, i.e. getting rid of the term Polish extermination camps.

"I respect, understand, and speak about it in Israel," he said.

Yes the main component, that is that you can't say there were Polish death camps. To be honest I'm not even sure it is the main component. I'm pretty sure it isn't even written in the law, but this law would prevent people from using that term, among other things.

He didn't however accept that Poland did not assist the Nazi Germans in carrying out the Holocaust, a false belief that this law is also aiming to fight. That's the point, they want to be able to put some of the blame on Poland as a whole, even if they accept the camps were German.

That's funny. All of my friends and my family make a point of avoiding TVP. It's good that we're not all the same.

I suppose your friends and family watch TVN?

not really..he later says that all this reactions was misunderstanding of Poland intentions.
and he was the highest rank Israeli official,leading this hostile attack on Poland,in strongest words.if he says it was misunderstanding,it indicate they changed position.

surely he wont admit that all new bill is correct and he will not say that he accept new bill becouse that would make himself an idiot when you recall how strongly he attack Poland few days ago.

politician will never admit his blunders

@Dirk et al.

There were plenty of totally assimilated Polish Jews (and half-Jews) whose names I've mentioned several times on PF, who contributed richly to Polish culture!

Not every Polish Jew was a Yiddish-speaking yeshiva brukha from some shtettl in G_d knows where:-) Stereotyping cuts both ways, as I've said often before:

Not all Polish gentiles are/were drunken, ignorant, Jew-hating louts and peasants, neither are/were all Polish Jews pale-faced yeshiva boys, davening from dawn till dusk, disrespecting their Christian neighbors' culture!!

Some Poles DID assist the Nazis - so did Jews.... Some people were all too happy to extort Jews (known as szmalcowcy) or turn them in to the Nazis for money. Everytime Israel brings up Polish crimes against the Jews or any perceived collaboration, it is the duty of Poles to point out that Jews too collaborated with Nazis and even more so the communists. They backstabbed the very same group, the AK, who had set up Zegota which was an organization specifically designed to help save Jews and indeed saved thousands of them. The AK also tried to liberate the Warsaw Ghetto and blow up the walls but was thrwarted by the Nazis. Despite the AK's heroism and high death toll in operations specifically designed to help the Jews, the Jews decided to kill AK members anyway. Poles must point out that Jews were all too quick to join the commie ussr backed AL and Red Army as well as occupy the ranks of the UB and commie kangaroo courts, which sentenced countless AK soldiers who had just a few years ago risked their lives to help Jews. That doesn't matter to such Jews though - they just wanted power and money and the USSR gave it to them. People like Morel and Michnik betrayed the same people and groups who had saved Jews just years before. It mattered nothing to them. They wanted to kill AK members despite the sacrifices of this group, and kill they did - thousands upon thousands of AK members including top generals who sent their own men to die just to help Jews.

This is the kind of thanks that Poland gets from Israel.... What's the moral of the story? If this ever happens again, don't help the Zionists because if they're given a license to kill years down the line they'll just end up killing you anyway, regardless of your own sacrifices and heroism trying to help them.


Of course there were - as I wrote above. Nonetheless, the majority of Jews living in Poland were not assimilated into Polish society. They set up their own parallel institutions in their own neighborhoods, which Poles permitted and would even frequent for shopping. Most, again not all, Jews did not speak Polish - they spoke Yiddish, especially in the Jewish quarters of Warsaw and Lodz. This is one of the reasons why it made it so difficult to hide Jews as so many simply didn't speak Polish and looked straight up Jewish.

Imagine you're a Pole and hiding a young Jewish boy. A Nazi comes in and even if that boy speaks perfect Polish, you insist that he's your nephew or son or whatever, so the Nazi asks the boy to pull his pants down - instant giveaway. If their schmekel didn't ultimately give them away, their hard Yiddish accent, curly hair, appearance, etc. would first.

true that..but Bolsheviks wars,nazi occupation and Stalinist time brought out the worst traits from humans.both poles and jews.
its stupid that we throw mud at each other now and whole world is watching

No, Dirk. The moral of the story is that the more quickly the Jews had been assimilated into Polish culture (perhaps paying only lip service to the Catholic Church will practicing Judaism at home), to a degree as they were in post-Enlightenment Germany and France, things might have turned out a great deal differently, maybe more happily, for concerned!

While I'm not suggesting that the latter was of much use to the German Jews when Hitler came on the scene, one never quite knows how events had unfolded had the image of the Jew not become demonized as it had.

The difference is during the Polish-Soviet war, true Poles meaning Polish Christians by blood and not paper and ink mostly fought on the side of Poland. The Jews, especially the intellectuals, overwhelmingly supported the Bolsheviks - who's leadership and generals were also disproportionately Jewish. The Jewish Bolsheviks sat in the Kremlin giving orders, the Bolshevik goys were cannon fodder.


The Jews themselves CHOSE not to assimilate - just as countless migrants CHOOSE not to assimilate into European society today. They could've gone to Polish schools, learned Polish, dressed like Poles but they chose not to - they instead went to yeshivas, only hung out with other jews (the Talmud states that Jews shouldn't even sit at the same table as goys), and primarily spoke Yiddish, not Polish. At best, Polish was a second language to the Jews living in Warsaw and Lodz and even those who did speak some Polish spoke with a very heavy Yiddish accent.


Which is partially the Jews' fault. It's the same with blacks in the us or muslims in Europe. If blacks didn't commit so many crimes and were responsible for the vast majority of murders, then cops wouldn't be so jumpy. If the majority of black areas in the US weren't havens for open air drug markets, then people wouldn't automatically have the picture of a barren poverty stricken wasteland in their mind whenever someone says 'black neighborhood' - you don't think of beautiful homes and carefully manicured lawns when someone says 'black neighborhood.' it's just the way it is... and it's up to both blacks and the rest of society to change that. same with muslims. If muslims didn't commit so many terror attacks, so many rapes, etc. then the Europeans would be more welcoming. In the same sense if the Jews didn't have the stereotypes of clannish, non assimilated plotters and usurers, then perhaps Europeans wouldn't of kicked them out of over 100 different countries.