Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash

Would that be the same Donald who flew on that same plane to that same airport with that same pilot a couple of days earlier? The guinea pig premier.

And the same one who kissed and hugged, smiled broadly and joked with his buddy Putin. That's why he made it a point to go earlier. Apparently two days earlier there was no fog and they didn't take off from Warsaw with faulty weather forecasts.

And Tusk knew there would be fog two days later;-)

I wouldn't put it past Macierewicz, certain publications - in fact some of the scarier cranks in PL - to suggest the Russians were 'cloud seeding' or some such.

Tusk didn't know but lucked out because there was no fog.

Not so much being lucky, more not being so arrogant as to think he knew more about flying a plane than a Polish air force officer.

Merged: Tusk should face State Tribunal - govt spox

"When I see what shape Poland is in and compare what other Polish politicians have been tried by the State Tribunal for, it wouild be a good thing for Donald Tusk," government spokesperson Elżbieta Witek told a TVN24 interviewer adding that was her private view. "There is a colossal difference between the way Holland and Russia have behaved in the face of air disasters compared to the way the Polish government reacted following the Smolensk catastrophe," she added.

rp.pl/Kraj/151129631-Witek-Trybunal-dla-Tuska-dobra-sprawa.html?template=restricted

Tusk will not face tribunal for a long time, Kaczynski is seeking revenge and with all his power he can not even start the investigation, it's been five years already, Tusk is protected by foreign collaborators who are covering for him.

So, the PIS spokesperson thinks that it's appropriate for her to libel Poland's most senior politician, how surprising. Tusk could report her to the prosecutor for criminal libel but no doubt her boss would just tell 'President' Duda to sign another of the blank pardons issued to PIS criminals.


Which crash of a French airplane is she referring to?


The crash of the Russian plane was due to terrorists putting a bomb on it. The crash of the Polish plane was due to the Polish crew flying it into the ground after being told not to but doing so due to pressure from a certain VIP.


You finally got something right! PIS isn't Law and Justice, PIS is Criminals and Revenge.

Tusk is a lapdog of Angela merkel on her project of destroy Europe.

That's your version. In reality Tusk holds an electoral record of eleven wins and two losses. Given that record of support, perhaps you should re-evaluate your wish to come and live in our wonderful country.

When his term as Council president ends and he refuses to return to Poland to face the music, he will be extradited. His glib rhetoric and smooth and slippery ways enabled him to pull the wool over Poles' eyes for 8 years, but luckily Polish voters have finally seen through the PO (Platform of Offenders) and voted them out of office. As they further compromise themselves with their internal power struggle, one wonders whetehr they'll even clear the 5% threshold in the next election..

Indeed. It's quite conceivable that Tusk will come back in 2020 to send Duda packing.

I


Without concrete charges you're typing out your &ss (and hardly for the first time). Name _specific_ crimes that you think he can be charged with or give up your pathetic non-Christian hate.

He...he...insulted Kaczyński!

Personally, this whole Smolensk thing is going to be funnier and funnier as time goes on. I predict that we'll see some Stalinist show trials towards a couple of minor civil servants, but there won't be any resolution before 2019.

That's when in that year's election PiS win 51% of the vote, Petru 20%, Kukiz 10% and Korwin 6%. What about Platforma? - someone may ask. Platforma? What Platforma? Their former top MPs at that time will be into insurance scams and fraudulent online tourist firms -- the less prominent ex-MPs will be trading in copper wiring stolen from the railways or working as shoplifters and pickpockets.

If by 'funny' you mean "a tragic waste of time and resources that would better be spent on something else" then yes, it will be funnier and funnier.


I was watching Macierewicz emote last night on the news and I had an epiphany. He wants Poland to be a poor, downtrodden, victimized country. He hates the modern, more well off country that Poland is becoming and can't stand the idea of Poland not being invaded or occupied by somebody. He wants to live forever under the heel of oppressors. He desperately needs Russia to oppress Poland and he'll settle for nothing less.

But this issue is a _major_ loser among younger voters and PiS pursues it at the risk of losing them (all the ones I've talked to voted against PO rather than for PiS and they are not.... enchanted by the party that has shown up in the Sejm). The issue they care about most is job creation and PiS is essentially doing nothing there (because there's nothing they can do but that's a separate issue).

That too. But it's pretty obvious that they can't actually produce any conclusion beyond going after minor civil servants, and so they'll drag it out for 4 years. Macierewicz, of course, will vanish in the 6 months before the election.


I would argue that it's not just Macierewicz - Kaczyński and a lot of PiS supporters seem to want the same thing. Wish I could understand it.

Mysteriosu Arab Shipyard investors, Smolensk wreckage not repatriated, OFE heist, tape scandal, gambling scandal, just the first few that come to mind. There is a whole PDF full of them on here somewhere.

What exact crime was committed? Which law was broken? More to the point, shouldn't you be keeping quiet about the shipyards after your favourite priest begged lots of money from little old ladies to "save the shipyards" and then spent it on other things?


What exact crime was committed?


No crime at all was committed there and PIS are going to take even more.


What crime was committed there (other than the crimes committed by the people who did the taping)?

I could go on.

Every law in the book Harry. It wasn't the way an independent government goes about a crash of their head of state airplane. That was disgrace and a blatant display of dilettantism in action unless there were sinister motives involved and that need to be investigated.

there is no way that some party can believe itself above the law and above consequences of their actions, not even your beloved PO.

Name three. Name three specific laws that were broken and state who broke them.


I wasn't aware that there was a protocol for such crashes. Generally most other nations take great care to ensure that the aircraft carrying their heads of state don't crash, but then I suppose that no other head of state has ever publicly called his pilot a coward for refusing to make an unscheduled landing in a war-zone on an un-scouted un-researched runway.

Well, there is always a time to educate yourself Harry,


Hence you are not even a Polish citizen I cannot be bothered. I leave it to the investigators.

Nice try to use an ad hom deflection but you need to try harder. Name three specific laws that were broken and say who broke them. Alternatively just admit that you can't name them, because they weren't broken and your statement that "Every law in the book" was broken is just another lie.


It's a pity for all the other people on that plane that there isn't time to educate Kaczynski about a few fundamental principles of flying.

It has to do with rejection of responsibility. If Poland is an eternally victimized country then there's no need to ever reflect on things that Poland might be responsible for. If it becomes a prosperous country in control of its fate then it can and will be judged like any other country. That's a terrifying prospect for some people. It's easy to retreat into the warm security of victimhood where only other actors need be held accountable.

It's also about rejection of personal responsibility for failure. PIS supporters are used to failing (the only times they ever comparatively succeed are when others fail even more) and so they assume that they will fail. By setting themselves up as victims they can blame that failure on other people rather than themselves. Smolensk is a good example of that. The plane crashed because of Polish failures and because Kaczynski was an arrogant prick who thought he had the right to tell pilots where, when and how to fly. But rather than reflecting on that Polish failure and the personal failure personified by their leader, the PISites create a parallel universe where the Russians were responsible for the death of a politician who was heading for utter humiliation at the polls in a matter of months.

Yawn... meanwhile life goes on...

That is quite enough Harry. I see that my posts are causing your state to worsen hence I will ignore you for a while for your own good.


Would you care to elaborate? It is hard to phantom how you could come to such a conclusion?

What an original way of responding to being called out on such a laughably obvious lie as "Every law in the book" was broken when the reality is that you can't even name three specific laws that were broken and say who broke them.

It's a model of Balkanesque nationalism* where the nation is utterly helpless (like an infant) in a hostile world. Any harm done by the nation is not its fault and any harm done to the nation is definitely the fault of malevolent actors. It's a retreat to childhood safety and avoidance of judgement. Once you're aware of the model you can't miss it in the real world if you're paying attention.

*I first read of the concept by a Croatian author (pretty sure it was Dubravka Ugrešić) who was disgusted by the grotesque forms of nationalism propogated in the newly independent Croatia in the early 1990s.