Achievements of the Tusk's Polish government

Come on, we live in 21st century. Have you ever heard of an invention called the computer? :):):)


1) There will be enough time for that when the conflict begins. Come on, Russians won`t be able to drop 1 million combat soldiers onto Poland within a single night.

Most of the population won't even react to our country being attacked in the first 2-3 days - on the first two days they will be in doubt if we have really been attacked


hahah - so we will be fighting russian tank columns with hacking attacks (hope the Russian tank servers are linux then :P)

Am I forcing you to participate in this discussion ?

I appreciate the effort you made to write this long post and I can even forgive you the personal attacks from the previous one, however I was asking for facts. Let's take a look at your list.

Points 3-5 are irrevelant, you could as well write about Tusk's successes in playing football.

Point 6. The foreign policy of Tusk is the one of smiles and shake hands, which itself isn't generating any value added for the citizens of Poland. What did we get out of it ? Do we pay now fair price for Russian gas or much more than Germans ? Smiles and shake hands could be good for the first year to prepare the ground for the real deals. Can you point out any of them ?

Point 7. "Under Tusk rule, Poland is making a good use of European funds". In quantitive terms we spend a lot but often just to spend it without much thinking about the quality of these projects, so we have for example some EU funded trainings for jobless people, which are pretty much useless in the reality of the labor market. It's been like that under previous governments, no matter If SLD or PiS were the main political parties in the Parliament. Tusk didn't screw this one up but he hasn't improved It either.



I tend to listen to experts and they, such as people from ZDG TOR, a respected think-tank focused on transport, are saying this: railways = disaster, roads = at best average. Comparing that with my own observations, I think It's fair opinion. If you don't agree with that, please provide supporting facts.


I used to serve in the army and am quite familar with this issue. The army is not professional. We don't have draft anymore but itself It didn't make the army professional. It is undertrained, ill-equipped and organized. The main difference is that more money is now being spend on salaries, less on training and equipment. Furthermore, no structural changes were made (and there are no even plans for that), so with 100k soldiers we have a command structure like for 250k soldiers. In result the ratio of privates to officers is ~1.6 to 1 when a helthy one would be 5 to 1. Moreover, the process of "professionalization" was done the way that they had stopped the draft long before the large scale recruitment of "professional" soldiers was started. For over a year most of combat units were not able to perform any tasks, they simply had no people. This one actually perfectly shows the philosophy of PO, they scored some points among the youngest voters and It's all that matters. Read what Petelicki, Skrzypczak, Hypki and all independent experts are talking about the situation in the army, they all agree that Klich is the worst person in charge of MOD in the history of the 3rd RP.

Now the most important:


Not at all. Facts say something much different. Poland is heavily criticized by EU for huge deficit and lack of reforms. The ratings are under huge pressure. Read this one, you can find tonnes of similar stuff, It's not PiS conspiracy.


What the government actually did to point it out as its success ? Please provide the facts. It seems to be a government success as much as nice weather during summer would be. Please provide supporting facts If you don't agree with that.

All in all, I appreciate the effort you made, however most of the points are PR slogans spread by the government, not the facts I was expecting. If I went to my CEO asking for 20% salary increase saying things like: 1. I improved the quality of our products 2. I reduced our operating costs 3... without providing supporting facts like: 1. I revised our quality control policy changing a)... b)... c)... which resulted in 30% decrease of quality related complaints from our clients. 2. I implemented new training procedures for new workers, which let reduce the period of training from 5 to 3 weeks without loses in quality and that let us save x million annually. 3.... etc. he would be rolling on the floor laughing.

That`s exaggeration. Judging on my school`s example, there are about 10-15% lousy teachers who should look for another job, preferrably out of school. There are about 15% brilliant ones for whom teaching is true calling. The rest 70% are just good and only need a little incentive to be even better.


How did I know your answer would look like that? :):)

Get rid of it.

I've heard countless examples in Poznan alone where terrible teachers still have a job despite being totally incompetent.

Do they both agree with that list ?


Hmm I'm not sure If I understand your reasoning... Let me put it this way, would Sweden be in a better economic situation If the corruption level was there like in Poland ? Or would Poland be in a better economic situation If the corruption level was here like in Sweden ?


Public sector can be more or less effective (If you really don't understand that, please stop wasting our time). In Poland It is much more effective than average in Africa but much less effective than average in EU and I see no significant steps to change that.

You probably need some rest.

OK, guys, time for relax. Get off your comps for a while and do some exercises.

And doing so, take a look at the beauty of Szczawnica:



After a relaxing break, let`s go on.


I provided you facts based on my personal observances. I believe what I wrote is true, just like many Poles do. If you can`t accept it as factual, it is your problem.


Pathetic rhetorics. In that way no government will be ever able to gain positive reviews, nowhere in the world. Please, ease up on them your so strict requirements! :):):)


Hey, why do you want to count everything into money? Don`t be such a Jew! :):):)

We gained better atmosphere which helps to create favourable conditions for cooperation and investment. Is it so difficult to understand? You are really surprising me now.


Catching at a straw? :):) Are all projects of bad quality? Facts, please!! :):):):)


Again, catching at a straw. I thought you expected posters to write about 5-10 achievements, not failures. Why are you going back on your words now? :):):) You may write about disastrous railway system after you start a thread called Failures.


Of course, not yet. What do you expect? Overnight miraculous change? But the first step was taken.


Hey, can you read Polish at all? If you can, do you understand what you read in Polish? Did you read that article you provided? Could you read it again, with greater understanding? Then you should find out there is nothing about EU, heavily,are under huge pressure, lack of reforms, or huge deficit.

You press me for facts while what are you doing at the same time? Providing bullshit! :):):):) That is not fair!


Catching at a straw again. It doesn`t matter - Poland has been doing well in the crisis and it happened under Tusk government. That is enough for me and millions of PO intelligent voters. If PIS ruled at the time, (God forbid), I would be able to agree that their government did a good job. :):):)

But for you to agree is out of question. :):):)


I disagree, of course, and it will stay so, I am afraid. Why? Read below:


Exactly. I am perfectly aware of it.

But I don`t do it for Grzegorz or gumishu. I know I won`t be able to influence them into acknowledging Tusk`s successes. Look, I listed 10 successes and each was rejected. :):):):) Not even one item was commented positively. Funny, isn`t it?

It means Tusk bashers are too hardened to accept the truth. Incorrigibles! :):):)

What I am doing here is for other normal people so that they are able to form their own opinion, by reading mine or Grzegorz`s and others` posts. The side they choose doesn`t concern me so much. I have done my duty and you will judge and decide.


There is no hatred on my or other PO supporters`s side. That is only a deep division. PiS is mainly supported by uneducated men from the country and towns who are frustrated by their failures in the market economy and expect PiS to provide them with good jobs, cheap flats, low prices, high salaries and pensions etc.

PO voters are educated, intelligent, dynamic, active in their private life and careers.

You will agree that it is quite difficult for these two groups to get together, won`t you?

Leftovers


Hmm, really? I can see some contradictory statements in your post about the army.


It is not true. It was planned to make 4000 officers redundant till 2012.


The problem is that generals and Klich ran into a conflict over those dismissals! Skrzypczak and other officers want to keep the status quo, namely this:

PiS essentially want a return to the Communist system with the benefits of being a Party member.

Like I've always said, Solidarity didn't want freedom, they wanted what the Party guys had.

And many Poles don,t.


Do you believe everything you read ? This is a serious question I am putting to you as a teacher.
If you have a point to make, then it,s up to you to prove it. So it,s your problem.

Teacher ? ......


WTF do you teach ?
Better still. Who do you teach ?

Market economy?
There is no free market economy anywhere in EU, including Poland.
I'm not sure there is market economy anywhere in the world, or even if there has ever been one.

I see not even one good deal Poland got thanks to Tusk's smile. Please provide the list of them If you don't agree with that.


Of course not, where did I say that ? Some are of good quality, some aren't, just like under previous governments, so Tusk improved nothing, that's why I don't see how It is is his achievement. Because he kept status quo ?


If I provide you with a dozen of links from respected sources proving what I said, will you agree with me or call me a PiS fanatic, Rydzyk supported, homophobe and anti-Semite ?


Especially pawian the teacher and his marvelous "career" :)))


Yes, really. Please point them out.

Open your eyes, then.

Tusk is seen as a beacon of stability in Eastern Europe by business.


It's certainly a far better career than sitting at home and complaining, like most PiS voters.

Delph ......... you,re beginning to sound like a broken record.
Do us all a favour and PiSappear.

They had to, delph, they were tired of guarding the cross ;)

Tusk is a failure for Poland . He's too nice to Russia and the EU. He is too weak. Poland needs strong leaders like Walesa and Kaczinski.

I respect that. PiS voters can be also good patriots of this country. We all want this country to prosper, that`s what matters. Let the better win!


Gumishu, I am not worried about that. The accomodation needs are overestimated. Besides, travelling around Poland, I saw many old buildings renovated and turned into hostels as well as new hotels built. Sometimes when I drive in Krakow I am amazed at the number of new/old constructions.


Come on. The regime ruled when PiS held power. Did you already forget those witch hunts?


Hey, already forgot how PiS tried to corrupt Renata Begier, by proposing financial gratification from the state money? :):):)

azraelk.eu/2006/09/26/dowody-korupcji-pis-wobec-renaty-beger


OK, you convinced me. I will stay alive to participate in the underground resistance after Poland loses the war and is occupied. I will run secret teaching courses until Germans track me down and put up against the wall or Russians send me to Gulag gold mine where I will perish anyway.


It is not education that plays a role here but the lack of positions. When the economy needs workers, their education is a secondary problem. All are hired. Currently, Polish economy can`t absorb all, because we are not Germany yet. And it is not Tusk`s fault.


Why do you hold Poles in such a low esteem? Come on, frustration also must have some limits.


What do you know about urban warfare? Did you study the case of Russian armoured column massacred in Grozny by Chechen fighters?


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Grozny_%281994%E2%80%931995%29


"Don't ask what your country can do for you. Ask instead what you can do for your country" - John F. Kennedy.


That is the problem with many PiS supporters. You dream of old bolshevik methods - no enemy, no problem. Gulag or firing squad are the best solutions for you.

Walesa, strong leader?

He was anything but. In fact, he was similar to Kaczynski in terms of meddling and not behaving as how a President should behave - although in all fairness, he didn't have a proper job description either.

Kaczynski, strong? I don't recall one 'strong' act from either of the brothers - except when it came to witchhunts.

Don't forget that Lech Kaczynski, despite all the rhetoric, signed Lisbon.


Thankfully, the majority do.

Personally, it's all moot - Tusk is going to walk the election and we can all have a good laugh as PiS are cast into the political wilderness. Kaczynski is doomed, and he knows it - PiS simply cannot survive another 3 years with him as leader if he loses yet again.

Yeah...antagonizing the big neighbours worked so well in Polands past....he definitely should try that again!
Isolating Poland from Europe will bring so many advantages...

Well Tusk should atleast repeal NNPT and Euro rules of non nuclear building. Germany has nukes and i'm sure france and U.K. do, and so does Russia, and who knows if Belarus didn't get any from Russia... why doesn't Poland have right to defend herself and not rely on U.S. or international community for help. tusk should atleast do something about this instead of kissing all nations ass.

Yeah he should try to be a cvnt for a change... wear ski boots at the next EU summit, waddle over to Merkel and kick her really hard in the shin.

Nope, we haven't....


The WHAT??? Didn't Poland just decide to build a new nuclear plant???


If you need nukes for that then there isn't a Poland anymore to defend..


There is steel under her trousers....beware! :)

Among these, nuclear plant is a need for Poland (project), Germany and France.
But, for UK and Russia? No... They have petrolium and/or gas sources enough.
So, UK and Russia have nukes only for power, as weapons..
If there happens an anti-nuclear agreement, who should close nuclear plants first? Not France, not Germany, etc - but, either UK or Russia.

Advicing Tusk about this is meaningless under these conditions.

Uh...

Since when? The nukes in Germany are controlled by the United States.

I am not a PiS supporter, my argument is that I have not experienced any improvements under the current government, only a downturn.
The title of this thread " achievements ", of which no one can elaborate, other than the govs propaganda reports.



The one track record is playing again.
Forget PiS for a minute delph, and stop being pro PO paranoid, lets have a triple, quadruple coalition of any remaining parties for example. My issue here is, that the current gov is not doing the best for Poland, not PO v PiS.

Kaczynski would declare war against Russia, that's what you call "strong politics", god forbid him from getting to reign over Poland.

Well why doesn't Tusk build a missle shield. He's a jerk off thats why. Russia is allowed to have missile shiled in thousands of nukes but Poland can't. It's stupid like all of you.

The economy is rolling...is it not?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Poland


Propaganda only???

That in itself is a huuuuge achievement in the current crisis...and everything else stems from that. If the economy sucks you can forget about everything else.


Why? Who is threatening Poland with missiles???

It seems your gripes with Tusk is military spending only....he on the other hand seems more concerned with the economy. We here in Germany would vote for him as Chancellor anytime...believe me.

We have the same priorities!

Try living here and see for yourself. Anyone can make up a good story, I did it when I was a kid too.

But how can you compare, when PiS were riding the wave of economic prosperity and PO have had to deal with the global crisis? It's like comparing apples and oranges.

In terms of stability, Tusk has done wonders - the country is now stable politically, something it wasn't for many, many years. We're actually looking like we'll see a Polish Prime Minister re-elected in a democratic election - the first time since...well, ever?


PO's greatest achievement has been stability. People are investing - big time.


What party would actually do "the best" for Poland?

Many people vote PO tactically simply because the alternatives are too scary to think about. Heck, look at me - I would only ever vote PO in order to keep PiS out, not because I like them. I haven't voted for them with any of my votes, and when confronted with a PO vs terrible mayor decision - I spoiled my vote on purpose. I'm certainly no PO apologist, but they're still the best option at a national level.

As for Tusk building a missile shield - where the hell is the money coming from? Poland tried the military-industrial method in the 20's and 30's and...it didn't work.

Compare Poland with other european countries....not stable, no growing economy, begging for help, broke, ridiculed leaders!
I'm fairly sure they would be happy to have a Tusk instead of their own chaos.