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Achievements of the Tusk's Polish government


Stu 12 | 522
15 May 2011 #91
10. No more compulsory military service The army is professional now.

Start another thread and I will tell you (from first hand after 22 years of experience) about the pros, but mainly cons about having a professional army. And it isn't what Torq says.
gumishu 11 | 5,692
15 May 2011 #92
By imbeciles I mean all those who critisize Tusk`s government for increasing the national debt and budget deficit but at the same time complain about low salaries, cuts in state spendings, no pay and pension rises, high taxes, etc etc.

ever heard of the thing called corruption - do you think corruption increased or decreased durging the reign of Tusk (should I mentions some examples) -

I'm not familiar with how GDP (PKB) is counted but somehow it makes me wonder how it is possible that while tax revenues have fallen by more than 10 per cent in 2010 compared to 2009 positive growth have been recorded for 2010 (no taxes were lowered in the period)

and by the way - I am a voter of PiS - even if not an enthusiastic one - and what I dream of actually is a coaltion of PiS and UPR for the coming election (Mikke while often a very good observer often fails to make good judgement because blinded by ideologies - he once went into coaltion with PO before a parliamentary election (I think against his best knowledge) - they got screwed by PO big time)
pawian 178 | 15,893
15 May 2011 #93
Looks like you aren't intellectually capable to comprehend that economy is not a zero-sum game. You don't have to raise tax rates to generate more income for a public sector, creating better opportunities for business (making law simple, reducing bureaucracy, reducing corporativism, fighting corruption, adjusting education system to the market's requirements etc.) you can achieve the same without additional costs for taxpayers.

No. It looks like you are intellectually incapable of grasping simple truth: if it was as simple as you suggest, so many European countries wouldn`t be experiencing such enormous economic problems now.

Besides, what makes you say they don`t fight corruption? Or change law? Or don`t adjust the education system? Didn`t you hear about the preschool reform? I will deal with it in the second part of my presentation.

It seems you are catching at a straw, man. :):):)

Public sector in Poland is very ineffective thus very expensive.

Words, words. And slogans.

Show me the country where the public sector is effective and inexpensive.

You think we don't ? What do you base that opinion on ? Please tell.

I base my opinion on what I see everyday.

Moving from "It's all Kaczynski's fault" to "It's all lazy Polish bastards' fault" ? It seems to be a common trend in some circles.

Catching at a straw again? :):):)

ever heard of the thing called corruption - do you think corruption increased or decreased durging the reign of Tusk (should I mentions some examples) -

Of course it decreased. If you lived in this country, you would be aware of the changes that took place in recent years.

When you mention examples of corruption scandals during PO rule, don`t forget to mention all previous ones for a fair comparison, OK?
gumishu 11 | 5,692
15 May 2011 #94
? Or don`t adjust the education system?

and they do?? getting people better equipped for the labour market by sending them to school a year earlier - hmm interesting

six-year-olds in public school in my opinion will result in even more learning disabilities in kids and other not so nice psychological phenomena associated with education (fear of going to school anyone?)

When you mention examples of corruption scandals during PO rule, don`t forget to mention all previous ones for a fair comparison, OK?

what previous ones? dorsz for 8 złoty or Włoszczowa platform? do you know of any other?
pawian 178 | 15,893
15 May 2011 #95
Yip - so we have an army which has more officers than privates today, and which is composed
of elder staff fatties and administrative workers, with a couple of batallions being used for foreign
missions.

Start another thread and I will tell you (from first hand after 22 years of experience) about the pros, but mainly cons about having a professional army. And it isn't what Torq says.

Funny you discuss my list starting from No 10, which is the least important there. :):)

Does it mean the previous 9 points are undeniable? :):):)
gumishu 11 | 5,692
15 May 2011 #96
Funny you bash my list starting from No 10, which is the least important there. :):)

funny how self-centered you are - Stu simply argues with one point you make - maybe he has no problems with other points

your point 9 pawian - preparations to euro 2012 - I wouldn't be surprised if accomodation and transfer of all those coming to see the championships is gonna end up a one big mess -

warszawa.radioplus.pl/Wiadomosci/Warszawa/Zabraknie-miejsc-noclegowych-na-Euro-2012
pawian 178 | 15,893
15 May 2011 #97
and they do?? getting people better equipped for the labour market by sending them to school a year earlier - hmm interesting

six-year-olds in public school in my opinion will result in even more learning disabilities in kids and other not so nice psychological phenomena associated with education (fear of going to school anyone?)

Get a grip, man - Poland can`t stay behind Europe.

The statutory school age in England, Wales and Scotland is from 5 years to 16 years. In England term starts in September, the entry year is reception (R) and children must be 5 before August 31 the following year.

funny how self-centered you are - Stu simply argues with one point you make - maybe he has no problems with other points

Again, instead of rational arguments concerning the topic, you are turning personal and talking about me. Yes, I am faking self-centred, that is why I became a teacher, because I didn`t decide to become a priest or an actor. :):):):)

Now, back to my list, OK? :):):):)
Stu 12 | 522
15 May 2011 #98
six-year-olds in public school in my opinion will result in even more learning disabilities

BS ... over here they go to school at 4. We don't have very many pupils with learning difficulties. One can even choose to send ones child to school at two-and-a-half, something that over 30 years ago was already possible in Belgium for example. No learning difficulties because of that! Or psychological problems.

Does it mean the previous 9 points are undeniable?

No ... but as I have stated here before ... I don't discuss things about Polish politics, because I don't know enough about it. I don't live there (yet) and therefore I feel I should listen, ask questions when in doubt and not comment. However, since you brought up your number 10 of which I know a lot about, I felt compelled to argue that re-organizing ones armed services into a professional one, doesn't necessarily give positive results.
gumishu 11 | 5,692
15 May 2011 #99
gumishu:
six-year-olds in public school in my opinion will result in even more learning disabilities

BS ... over here they go to school at 4. We don't have very many pupils with learning difficulties. One can even choose to send ones child to school at two-and-a-half, something that over 30 years ago was already possible in Belgium for example. No learning difficulties because of that! Or psychological problems.

you don't know Polish realities Stu - they are going to lump all those six year olds with older years (up to 12) - and in some places elemantary schools are lumped with gymnasiums - I have seen schools for little kids in England - these were well schools for little kids - not for all kinds of kids

Get a grip, man - Poland can`t stay behind Europe.

hahah - behind - funny - very funny - if everybody else smokes you should too - this is the same logic
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
15 May 2011 #100
you don't know Polish realities Stu - they are going to lump all those six year olds with older years (up to 12) - and in some places elemantary schools are lumped with gymnasiums - I have seen schools for little kids in England - these were well schools for little kids - not for all kinds of kids

Given the number of one child families in Poland, it is very sensible to 'lump them in' with other kids of various ages.
gumishu 11 | 5,692
15 May 2011 #101
3. In result, despite the crisis, Tusk`s government managed to keep its popularity with Poles on decent levels, like no other government before.

with the help of the media hushing up inconvenient facts not asking difficult questions and trumpeting around those extraordinary succesess of the current regime,

Given the number of one child families in Poland, it is very sensible to 'lump them in' with other kids of various ages.

why should six-year-olds go to school - they used to go to pre-schools and learn to read there and everything was fine - what is the point of sending them to schools
pawian 178 | 15,893
15 May 2011 #102
However, since you brought up your number 10 of which I know a lot about, I felt compelled to argue that re-organizing ones armed services into a professional one, doesn't necessarily give positive results.

So, practically, we don't have an army anymore. More like an expeditionary corps, fit only to serve
their American masters whenever it's ordered to do so. There is no compulsory military service (which
means no trained reservists in the future) and no significant territorial defence formations. In military
categories, we are no more than an open steppe.

Come on, guys. We don`t need a big army. We will never match Russians or Germans in the open field, no matter how much we invest into the military. Don`t you know Poland has chosen the urban warfare option, which means that the conflict will be fought not in fields but cities? Training to shoot an assault rifle or throw a grenade from behind the street corner takes one day. The big professional army isn`t an enough deterrent. But the prospect of facing millions of armed Polish men ferociously defending their towns and cities is certainly a huge deterrent.

I hope you don`t mind it? Will you man the barricade? :):):) I will, with my students. We will give Germans or Russians second Warsaw Uprising or Breslau Defence. :):):)

In consequence, what Poland currently needs is just a group of well trained soldiers who will be the core of the future pospolite ruszenie.
Stu 12 | 522
15 May 2011 #103
they are going to lump all those six year olds with older years (up to 12)

Doesn't matter, gumishu. At age 6 and 7 I went to a Montesorri-school in Amsterdam. No problems at all.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montessori_education

Training to shoot an assault rifle

If you want to stay alive for a little longer, I'd suggest a longer training, pawian.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
15 May 2011 #104
with the help of the media hushing up inconvenient facts not asking difficult questions and trumpeting around those extraordinary succesess of the current regime,

But the media hasn't hushed up anything. Perhaps TVN and Agora haven't been asking hard questions, but the opposition media certainly has been.

why should six-year-olds go to school - they used to go to pre-schools and learn to read there and everything was fine - what is the point of sending them to schools

Actually, there's one good reason. Starting a year earlier will get them into the labour market a year earlier - which Poland desperately needs. Given that Polish snobbery regards anything less than a Masters degree as "fit only to do manual work", it's absolutely vital to get people through education earlier in order for them to pay social contributions earlier.

If you ask me, Tusk's education reforms need to go far deeper than this - and I don't think it'll happen. The recent failure to allow private universities to compete for public funding was a disgrace - I know first hand as to the immense amount of money wasted by public universities.

But the prospect of facing millions of armed Polish men ferociously defending their towns and cities is certainly a huge deterrent.

This is what should have been done all along - Poland hasn't got the cash to have a well equipped army, but it (especially given the Polish reputation of being hot headed) would make perfect sense to have every single man and woman able to use weapons. The training could easily be done in schools - and what schoolchild wouldn't like to blow things up for a couple of days a year?
pawian 178 | 15,893
15 May 2011 #105
If you want to stay alive for a little longer, I'd suggest a longer training, pawian.

Stu, you don`t understand Poles. According to our romatic traditions, we are not afraid to lose our lives for the motherland. I don`t care about my life in the future conflict. What matters is that I don`t waste my ammo which will probably be sparsely distributed for those millions of men defending their country.

Therefore, this old slogan will be valid:

Each bullet - one German.

:):):)

would make perfect sense to have every single man and woman able to use weapons. The training could easily be done in schools - and what schoolchild wouldn't like to blow things up for a couple of days a year?

Yes, I agree. Not introducing it is probably one of Tusk`s failures.
Stu 12 | 522
15 May 2011 #106
perfect sense to have every single man and woman able to use weapons.

Either reinstate conscription or let young people choose what they want (a kind of alternative or social service, like working in health service, or assisting in class rooms, sweeping the streets for all I care). I think it would definitely benefit society, and show young people that from now on life isn't all about oneself, that one has duties, etc ...

we are not afraid to lose our lives for the motherland

Short sighted idea, pawian. Your motherland has no use for dead soldiers. The problem with dead soldiers is that they can't fight anymore. Furthermore, it lowers the moral in the ranks AND in the country itself. Stay alive ... much more useful!
frd 7 | 1,399
15 May 2011 #107
Interesting read pawian. The problem is you won't change anyone's mind. And to have a sensible conversation with somebody who's a tenacious pis voter is a no can do. I wonder where are the roots of this hatred Poles tend to guide towards each other.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
15 May 2011 #108
Either reinstate conscription or let young people choose what they want (a kind of alternative or social service, like working in health service, or assisting in class rooms, sweeping the streets for all I care). I think it would definitely benefit society, and show young people that from now on life isn't all about oneself, that one has duties, etc ...

You know, I always thought that alternative/social service was a great idea, if done properly.

There's a lot of complaining about what happens in Belarus, where graduates are expected to spend 1-2 years working "for the State" - but...is it really such a bad deal if they've received nearly 20 years of free education?
Torq
15 May 2011 #109
Does it mean the previous 9 points are undeniable? :):):)

It means that I'm sick and tired of discussing numbers 1-9, so I will just wait and say
"a nie mówiłem?" when the time comes :)

But the prospect of facing millions of armed Polish men ferociously defending their towns and cities is certainly a huge deterrent.

Millions? Where are the military structures for those men? When and where will they be trained?
Where, as a matter of a fact, are the weapons for them, and where and how will they be distributed?

Come on, Pawian, you're a reasonable man - you know well that there are no such plans or structures.

I hope you don`t mind it? Will you man the barricade? :):):) I will, with my students. We will give Germans or Russians second Warsaw Uprising or Breslau Defence. :):):)

As much as I appreciate your sense of humour, it is hardly a joking matter.

In consequence, what Poland currently needs is just a group of well trained soldiers who will be the core of the future pospolite ruszenie.

But you see, you need to divide your "pospolite ruszenie" into squads, platoons and companies etc.
so you need structures. If they are to, even remotely, resemble a coherent armed force you need
to:

1) train them BEFORE the conflict
2) arm them with something more than rocks and molotovs.

There are NO plans to train "millions of men" nor weapons to arm them.
Stu 12 | 522
15 May 2011 #110
You know, I always thought that alternative/social service was a great idea, if done properly.

Well, I would throw military service in the mix as well, but that shouldn't come as a surprise when you look at where I come from. But, I agree with you ... let young people do something for society after their education, either after secondary school or after university or whatever. And they can choose what they want to do themselves.

It builts character, gives some sense of responsibility and sense of duty ... things a lot of young people nowadays are desperately lacking.

Jee ... I sound like an old grandpa ... ;)
pawian 178 | 15,893
15 May 2011 #111
It means that I'm sick and tired of discussing numbers 1-9, so I will just wait and say

I thought you are tougher than that. :):):)

And gumishu also gave up. Come on, guys. :):):) Next ten points are still pending.......
gumishu 11 | 5,692
15 May 2011 #112
gumishu:
they are going to lump all those six year olds with older years (up to 12)

Doesn't matter, gumishu. At age 6 and 7 I went to a Montesorri-school in Amsterdam. No problems at all.

your average school in Poland is not a Montessori-school I'm affraid Stu - and I actually haven't heard about a single Polish Montessori-school
Stu 12 | 522
15 May 2011 #113
You are no doubt correct, gumishu ... but I just wanted to show that it is possible. Although one would have to adapt the way of teaching children.
gumishu 11 | 5,692
15 May 2011 #114
And gumishu also gave up. Come on, guys. :):):)

yeah, sure - if you explain to me how it is possible to have tax revenues 10 per cent lower than the year befor and have a positive GDP growth then I will do some next points :)
pawian 178 | 15,893
15 May 2011 #115
Explanation is simple - it is a miracle by Tusk. Any problem with that? :):):)

Jee ... I sound like an old grandpa ... ;)

Or an old wife. :):):)
Torq
15 May 2011 #116
Come on, guys. :):):)

Naaah. I think I will just vote PO and watch them abolishing Karta Nauczyciela and performing
all their planned educational reforms :):):)

Then I will sit comfortably, sip a single malt and observe Pawians of this country manning
the barricades and singing "Wyklęty powstań ludu ziemi." :):):)
pawian 178 | 15,893
15 May 2011 #117
As much as I appreciate your sense of humour, it is hardly a joking matter.

I am sorry, I have completed a long serious post, that is too much for my endurance, to balance it I have to make a fool of yourselves and myself for the next ten posts. :):):):)

Naaah. I think I will just vote PO and watch them abolishing Karta Nauczyciela and performing
all their planned educational reforms :):):)Then I will sit comfortably, sip a single malt and observe Pawians of this country manning
the barricades and singing "Wyklęty powstań ludu ziemi." :):):)

Actually, I support the abolition of Teacher`s Magna Carta rights.

As a good teacher, I know I will do well without it.

Hopefully, lousy teachers will drop out of schools at last. :):):) Then, I will take their place. :):):)
gumishu 11 | 5,692
15 May 2011 #118
it fits another thread better (down-dumbing of Polish education) but I let's have a go at this: unemployment among the youth - 22 per cent of all unemployed are below 24 (51 per cent are below 34) - this country desperately needs education that equips young people better for the challenges of real life (which is not achieved by lowering of educational standards)
Torq
15 May 2011 #119
Hopefully, lousy teachers will drop out of schools at last. :):):)

Now, that's something I can agree with! :)

Then, I will take their place. :):):)

With all due respect, Pawian, but I don't think you will be able to work on 500,000 "etats" :):):)
gumishu 11 | 5,692
15 May 2011 #120
if you want to have the data in my previous post confirmed -

The job market situation in Poland is not cheerful. The unemployment rate in March was 13.1 percent . The largest group of unemployed are young people aged 25-34 - GUS.

In March of unemployed was 133.9 thousand 2 million . people. While this is less than a month earlier , but more than a year ago.

Very bad situation of young people. 29.6 per cent . total number of registered unemployed are persons aged 25-34 years , 22 per cent . - Persons under the age of 24 years . The largest group of unemployed persons ( 28.4 percent . ) Demonstrated a vocational education . Every tenth Pole without a job had completed college.

The right to unemployment benefit was in March, just 16.5 percent . unemployed. According to economists , PKO BP Sędzimir Carolina unemployment rate is now declining throughout the spring and summer until October , when it reaches about 10.5 percent .



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