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I saw Polish nationalism today


convex 20 | 3,978
12 Nov 2010 #91
do you think that they are popular in Poland?

It's all relative. There aren't many marching in the streets on the 4th of July.
DarrenM 1 | 77
12 Nov 2010 #92
Anyone think this would be tolerated in Poland?

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convex 20 | 3,978
12 Nov 2010 #93
Poland society requires people to integrate or leave, you won't see that here in our lifetimes.
zetigrek
12 Nov 2010 #94
It's all relative. There aren't many marching in the streets on the 4th of July.

It was just a provocation of that organisation. The city hall can't refuse a march if they fullfill all requirements. It wasn't also the only manifestation that day.
Havok 10 | 912
12 Nov 2010 #95
do you think that they are popular in Poland?

Yes and it has been a problem for about 20 years now. They're hostile and harassing people in the streets. The police and the government should do something about it.

a social club? what do you mean?

Just what i said, they meet and socialize...
zetigrek
12 Nov 2010 #96
Yes and it has been a problem for about 20 years now. They're hostile and harassing people in the streets.

neonazis? I think that there's everywhere the same danger of getting stabbed because of your nationality regardless country.

Just what i said, they meet and socialize...

Well I believe that they don't kill anybody and put crosses in fire anymore but still they are tolerated and are potential danger for ethnic minioties (just the same as football hooligans in Poland).
Seanus 15 | 19,706
12 Nov 2010 #97
Hooligans, obviously enough, show it. They are unquestioning in their support of Nazi ideology and are unflappable in their conviction. Watch Ross Kemp's documentary film on Polish hooligans, available at Google Video. Nationalism on display!
zetigrek
12 Nov 2010 #98
Watch Ross Kemp's documentary film on Polish hooligans

I've aready seen it.
mountainhome - | 2
12 Nov 2010 #99
There are a few people not most people are nazi
nott 3 | 594
12 Nov 2010 #100
Skinheads and neo-nazis in countries previously occupied by nazis are not uncommon. Now if someone want's to write a "Freudian" university paper on the subject...go ahead.

Not a Freudian, he was a freak, but I'd say that those quasi-Nazi are the result of some psychological need rather, than... well, no deeper though involved, obviously. I want to be strong, I want to be right, I want to be a warrior true (not like those 'anarchists' pampered by half of the press), I want to unite with my few chosen friends, proper men, seeing me a a proper man. Or woman, as we saw on the pics. I'd say one or another form of it happens all over the world, only in the Europe-influenced cultures it takes on the specific symbolism, equated with extreme rebellion against the mainstream. Everybody hates Nazis, but we are strong enough to raise the banner.

As long as the police doesn't really react -

the fact of the matter is that this behaviour simply shouldn't be allowed anywhere

- but why, actually? They are marching once a year, carrying posters, shouting things, raising hands. Freedom of expression. Once they start smashing windows, or littering the street, police should intervene promptly on the grounds of unprovoked property damage, and even act without prejudice, just to make sure the message gets through. I wouldn't really object if they were additionally charged with maliciously damaging the public property, i.e. police batons. Stupidity is a costly hobby. Or at least should be.

Attempts on denying them the right to walk streets curiously reminds me of the official reaction to the Orange Alternative. A street demonstration of garden dwarfs, the commie police reacting vigorously. And a toddler asking 'Mummy, why are they beating this little mister with a red cap? What did he do?' Well, he shouted 'Red caps good! Stop the persecution! Dwarfs will not surrender!'.
Mr Grunwald 29 | 1,978
13 Nov 2010 #101
Yes

Ehrm... I got no words for it...
Maybe you meant Poland 80 years ago?
Then they were "popular" but now their less then a minority!

Hooligans, obviously enough, show it. They

Hooligans are hooligans! They go anywhere there will be trouble! ;)
Ahh the days when I was at the stadium... I miss it
Krynski - | 82
13 Nov 2010 #102
Hello, Mr Grunwald. Please read, if you want to, my comments on the Independence March events in the thread "Muslim Fanatics Burn Poppy". If I have enough time, I will try to scribble another piece on the events, based on credible Polish press reports (which, of course, don't include stuff from the Gazeta Wyborcza).

Hooligans, obviously enough, show it. They are unquestioning in their support of Nazi ideology and are unflappable in their conviction. Watch Ross Kemp's documentary film on Polish hooligans, available at Google Video. Nationalism on display!

Who specifically do you mean by the "hooligans"? Do you mean by them the pseudo-antifascist, in fact communofascist thugs who tried to break by violence the Independence March? Or do you mean by them the patriotic participants in the March? Who specifically is "unquestioning in their support of Nazi ideology" and "unflappable in their conviction"? What specific conviction? Do you mean one should watch Kemp's film in connection with the Independence March? If yes, then why? Do you suggest that nationalism and its "display" is wrong? If yes, do you also think so about your own Scottish nationalism, or, for example, Irish nationalism?
Havok 10 | 912
13 Nov 2010 #103
neonazis? I think that there's everywhere the same danger of getting stabbed because of your nationality regardless country.

it's not the same everywhere, people most likely will just shoot you here if you try to stab them

Ehrm... I got no words for it...
Maybe you meant Poland 80 years ago?
Then they were "popular" but now their less then a minority!

80 years ago Poland barely existed

Well I believe that they don't kill anybody and put crosses in fire anymore but still they are tolerated and are potential danger for ethnic minioties (just the same as football hooligans in Poland).

They just meet and socialize trust me.
ItsAllAboutME 3 | 270
13 Nov 2010 #104
they are tolerated and are potential danger for ethnic minioties (just the same as football hooligans in Poland).

that's an interesting statement. meaning both groups despise Jews, non-whites, and homosexuals? I never thought that football hooligans have much of a political agenda.
Ashleys mind 3 | 455
13 Nov 2010 #105
I guess this is what happens when another generation of tolerant/ educated Poles leave for other lands... the intolerant uneducated minority have more sway...
ItsAllAboutME 3 | 270
13 Nov 2010 #106
That's an interesting way to look at things. I would agree that more education translates into more tolerance of other people who are different from you.

I've always wondered how people who cannot live with differing opinions and lifestyles can emigrate to another country. They must be either perpetually miserable, or sorely unsuccessful.

Tolerance is related to resilience and adaptability, and you have to adapt when you move to another country. Even learning another language is a way of starting to look at things in a brand new way.
f stop 25 | 2,513
13 Nov 2010 #107
There are different modes of traveling. One is going places where other, like minded pople are already there, or will be joining you en masse, and the other one is going to places to learn about different cultures, and challenging yourself to try their ways. I've seen Poles do both, and their succes is entirely dependent on their goals.
zetigrek
13 Nov 2010 #108
I never thought that football hooligans

Yes everywhere in the Europe football hooligans are involved with racism etc. You are American and soccer is not popular in your country so you may not know that.

much of a political agenda

who said that? what are you talking about? actually do you know what we were talking about at all??

I guess this is what happens when another generation of tolerant/ educated Poles leave for other lands...

Nothing has happened, Ashley. It's just the right to demonstrate which every democratic country has to respect. Some ultra nationalistic group could make a demostration in every other country and nobody can forbit them to do it if it's democratic country, regardless some like or not. I don't like that some f*ckwits made a demonstration and now everyone here thinks that ONR is popular here.

Btw. were there anarchists condemostartion to fight with ONR either? I did not read the news.

I've always wondered how people who cannot live with differing opinions and lifestyles can emigrate to another country. They must be either perpetually miserable

and yes they are. You would also feel miserable in other coutries.

I would agree that more education translates into more tolerance of other people who are different from you.

not always. It's the common stereotype that those who are untolerant are uneducated. Of course more xenophobic and conservative attitudes are among those uneducated but it's not the rule. Unfortunately there are many those who are educated and intelligent. Problem lays somewhere else and it has nothing with being unable to accept others.
POLENGGGs 2 | 150
13 Nov 2010 #109
they should hook up with the EDL
enkidu 7 | 623
13 Nov 2010 #110
some facts.

1) Nazi ideology, symbolism, etc is ILLEGAL in Poland and is punishable.
2) ONR and Młodzież Wszechpolska are both legally registered organisations.
3) This march was legally agreed by the city council. The anti-demonstration was illegal.

The ONR people bear Polish National Flags, sings our anthem and scream "Long live Poland!"
The leftist tolerance-lovers bear stones and sticks and scream "Shut up or else..."

Who is real fascist here?
smurf 39 | 1,981
13 Nov 2010 #111
but why, actually?

you're actually defending neonazis? Wtf is wrong with you, go spend an hour in Auchwitz or some time with a WWII survivor and then come back and tell me that what these a-holes are doing is freedom of expression
kondzior 12 | 1,239
13 Nov 2010 #112
nazism be damned, these people are just slighty missguided patriots. I take someone like them over some gay-pride-parades-crowd any day.
smurf 39 | 1,981
13 Nov 2010 #113
I take someone like them over some gay-pride-parades-crowd any day.

homophobes are homophobes because they're insecure about their sexual orientation, and you're a fan of nazis so maybe you're a gay nazi. But that's ok, they have a special swastika for you

constitutionalistnc.tripod.com/hitler-leftist/id12.html
That article also proved the homosexual beginnings of the nazis
zetigrek
13 Nov 2010 #114
Who is real fascist here?

you?

You've must be blind not to know the polichinelle secret. Please read the link of SeanBM and then shut up.

I really admire those people from antifa who doesn't afraid to make this contermanifastation. I would be scared that some day I will met one of those skinheads on the street and they will kill me or beat me badly or that someone take a photo of me and post it on redwatch.

ONR members should be all jailed as they are a danger for society. Many of those people are probably involved in batteries, vandalism acts or stadium rows. THEY ALL SHOULD BE JAILED JUST FOR THEIR SKIN HEAD! They are not patriots. A patriot cares for the good name of his country.
kondzior 12 | 1,239
13 Nov 2010 #115
So Smurf, you mean that homosexuals are just as bad as nazis? Well, I hate both. But I'd say nazis were more then tad worse. Would not you agree?
zetigrek
13 Nov 2010 #116
The main issue for the Nazis denial that their movement has anything to do with Nazism. This does not mean denial of Nazism, or even avoidance of contact with the organizations of clear Nazi provenance (such as Blood & Honour, or Combat 18). If not this fundamental denial, it would not be possible at all presence on political scene. To make this manipulation, the Nazis must for each other create artificial differentiators. They try to emphasize the differences between fascism of Mussolini - who built a chiefly system based on the idea of a mythical nation - not the mythical race, as Nazism. They search for the trivial differences between fascism and national radicalism - although national radicalism is based on the same basis of ethnic mysticism.

cia.bzzz.net/strategie_skrajnej_prawicy_oswajanie_z_nazizmem_i_zludzenia_obiektywizmu

I'd more to read leftic anarchist that dumbass right-wingers.

However, organizations - supposedly only a "radical" and not Nazi - such as NOP, or ONR consistently build a vision of social decay, moral and economic, which has the task as fatalistically be associated with the lack of "purity" of racial or national, or abandonment of "natural "customs

smurf 39 | 1,981
13 Nov 2010 #117
ou mean that homosexuals are just as bad as nazis?

no of course not. How dare you even suggest that!
If someone is gay it's because of their genetics
theguardian.com/world/2008/dec/01/homosexuality-genetics-usa

The cheek of you to say that, but as I said before, homophobes are homophobes because of their insecurity of their sexuality.
enkidu 7 | 623
13 Nov 2010 #118
A patriot cares for the good name of his country.

This is pure Nazi attitude. The "tolerant", "free" people obviously don't want to discuss and to be open to various alternatives. They want them to shut up. If necessary using the violence.

Even your language is the one used by the Nazis. Let's play. :)

-----------------------------------
You've must be blind not to know the polichinelle secret. Please read the link to Volker Tagerblatt and then shut up.

I really admire those people from NSDAP who doesn't afraid to make this contermanifastation. I would be scared that some day I will met one of those communists on the street and they will kill me or beat me badly or that someone take a photo of me and post it on PRABDA.

The jew community members should be all jailed as they are a danger for society.
Many of those people are probably involved in stealing, deceptions acts and spreading of the syphilis. THEY ALL SHOULD BE JAILED JUST FOR THEIR JEWISH PAYOTS! They are not patriots. They are parasites A patriot cares for the good name of his country.

----------------------------------------
kondzior 12 | 1,239
13 Nov 2010 #119
How dare I? It was You that have writen about "homosexual beginings of nazis".

Smurf, I do have a problem with a term homophobe. It suggests some kind of fear. I just find them disgusting. As long as they keep the foul deeds of theirs in the privacy of their own homes, I can ignore them. But now they want to be treated as real people. They want to adopt kids, for Good sake, the world is trully going torwards its end... (is any pair of male faqs going to adopt a girl? or lesbians to adopt a boy? i doubt that)
A J 4 | 1,088
13 Nov 2010 #120
The ONR people bear Polish National Flags, sings our anthem and scream "Long live Poland!"

If that's all they were screaming I wouldn't have a problem with them.

The leftist tolerance-lovers bear stones and sticks and scream "Shut up or else..."

You should point the finger at yourselves for a while, and see what you're doing wrong, because you're obviously doing something wrong.


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