Ah, come on, it's just one of the things that make Poland what it is - Poles generally never apologise. It's just a cultural thing - no-one wants to admit that they've ****** up, because of the lingering fear that it'll be punished somehow. Probably another relic of communism :(
Ah, come on, it's just one of the things that make Poland what it is - Poles generally never apologise.
I don't know about your immediate environment, and such generalising opinions are difficult to discuss anyway, no actual research available. Now try and look at the official statements, starting with the Bishops' Apology for the expulsion of Germans, and compare this series with the neighbouring countries. Excluding Germany, that is, they are the champions.
One of the worst problems right now is the way that Poland is acting like a fully developed country - it's one thing to have bitter political rivals in a country like the USA or UK, but Poland really desperately needs consensus to keep growing :(
Honestly, I don't really understand. What are the nationalists out there promoting? Poland has been doing pretty damn well considering everything. We all are looking for instant results while the slow march of progress continues. The roads are better, more people are employed, wages are up, people are living longer, they have WAY more opportunity than 10 years ago...
Anyone that thinks that Poland is worse off now than 10 years ago has been sniffing some of that fine Polish glue.
They seem to think that Poland is worse off now than 70 years ago, not 10 years ago ;)
The sentimentality towards the II RP is partially what holds some people back, even though the people who are sentimental towards it would be, in all likelihood, on the verge of society.
more people are employed, wages are up, people are living longer, they have WAY more opportunity than 10 years ago...
I was living there, 10 years ago and 15 years ago. More people are employed, in the UK. Wages are up, prices double so. And there are new opportunities coming, with Germany and France opening the labour market. This year a visited Poland after 3 years of absence, and I saw either stagnation or 'negative development'.
And I saw a dynamic progress in Poland too, lasted for about a year. Those 2 decades ago.
its not hitler salute - what are you making up again ?
Poland has some issues, real one, which need to be resolved, present state of affairs is resulting in all kinds reactions of a fringes ! As far as I'm aware nobody threatens foreigners in Poland, however if they feel uncomfortable because their sensitivities are outwardly or lordly, can always change the scenery for the one more agreeable !
They exist. They're also not afraid to use the swastika in public. I've seen these freaks with my own eyes.
May I ask where?
I think they're mostly immigrants and they don't know any better.
I know about white supremacist and neo-Nazi prison gangs, but they're on the fringe of the society, life sentence, nothing to loose type of people etc.
This stuff was never popular here other then the early '60, see, the majority of people here are mixed nationality and the Nazi ideology is not really popular. The whole thing just seems like too much work for most people.
If you want Americans to follow some ideology it has to be easy to explain and comfortable to follow. Otherwise fuhgeddaboudit. No one feels like running in the streets unless there are boobs and booze involved.
I know about white supremacist and neo-Nazi prison gangs, but they're on the fringe of the society, life sentence, nothing to loose type of people etc.
That's actually a great point. I mean, how many times in your life have you ever seen a white supremacist? Not someone who's racist, but one of those guys that goes out an marches and has copies of the turner diaries stashed under their bed?
They exist. They're also not afraid to use the swastika in public. I've seen these freaks with my own eyes.
it's a big country. there are also people who believe in aliens and people who believe the blair witch project was for real or that evolution is a hoax. it doesn't mean any of that is popular here.
Absolutely shameful. This is what happens when ur elite gets wiped outed by 2 tyrannies and most of the scum if left over to say and think what they please. I think the biggest crime here is their thievery of oxygen!.........Whats more shameful is that most other Poles tolerate this(I doubt this happens in Germany where denying the Holocaust is an offense). What kind of a spineless generation of Poles is this, our ancestors, fought 2 tyrannies staunchly yet this is allowed to happen. Its an absolute disgrace and the Poles who stood by and watched instead of doing something should feel the most ashamed.
it's a big country. there are also people who believe in aliens and people who believe the blair witch project was for real or that evolution is a hoax. it doesn't mean any of that is popular here.
While Poland is a little country with a few thousand citizens and all pray to allmighty God so that they will have their revenge and are Neo-Nazi's? You know whre I am going with this?
I know you mean well but i have no clue what connection there is between nazis and praying to the almighty .
Are you trying to say that Poland is a versatile country and the Nazis have plenty of room to co-exist in peace with the Catholics? Seriously, you gotta elaborate more on statements like this, otherwise you leave a lot of room for speculation.
and the Nazi ideology is not really popular. The whole thing just seems like too much work for most people.
I can say the same thing about Poland. The majority of Poles are Polish which were to exterminate or enslave according to Nazi ideology.
On YouTube there are plenty of US neonazi groups promotion spots. Also I've watched a documentary about neonazi groups in USA on ViaSat Explorer. Don't deny they don't exist. Ku-Klux Klan also exists. ONR is also a margin in Poland and you dare to point on us Poles that we are ultra-nationalistic.
or that evolution is a hoax. it doesn't mean any of that is popular here.
Half of american population believe that evolution is a hoax. Do you live in la la land?
There are a lot of different kinds of nationalism and making the simplistic link nationalist=nazi is both inaccurate and about as useful as putting lipstick on a pig and calling her Lady Hamelot.
Some degree of nationalism is necessary for a country to function at all. The governments of the UK (and Ireland to a lesser extent) have been aggresively trying to destroy local nationalism but I don't think many people there much like the result. You can extend that actually to the indigenous population of any country where he elies are into post-national identities actually.
That said, groups like ONR and Młodzież Wszechpolska do have links in ideological terms with fascism for sure. They're also a completely predictable outcome of political policies since 1989. Nothing is going to prevent such groups from existing, the trick is to keep them small and marginalized.
I'm not worried about Poland going down the fascist past. The electorate was fooled at one point by LPR (more proto- than full fledged fascists) and once they got a good luck at them they were dead at the ballot box.
They're also a completely predictable outcome of political policies since 1989. Nothing is going to prevent such groups from existing, the trick is to keep them small and marginalized.
Exactly. Anyway, maybe it is better that those half-brains have such a herding instinct, as it will be easier to get all of them and put in one closed facility;). That's where they belong.
The governments of the UK (and Ireland to a lesser extent) have been aggresively trying to destroy local nationalism but I don't think many people there much like the result.
But the UK is a very weird place - look at how Welsh and Scottish nationalism has grown significantly in the last 20 years. They used to play God Save The Queen at the end of the night on TV in Scotland - now? not a chance.
Skinheads and neo-nazis in countries previously occupied by nazis are not uncommon. Now if someone want's to write a "Freudian" university paper on the subject...go ahead. I'm just gonna link a couple of newsarticles that can make people go.."huh?".
"A neo-Nazi gang in Israel sounds, at first, like a nasty mistake. But experts say that eight young immigrants from the former Soviet Union may have stumbled over a mundane obstacle: integration."
"Police said the cell's leader was Eli Buanitov, a Jewish-descended Russian immigrant who swore in an e-mail never to have children. "I won't have kids," he wrote, according to detectives. "My grandfather is half Yid, so that this piece of trash won't have ancestors with even the smallest percent of Jewish blood."
"Four Islamists have been convicted by a court in Germany of plotting to attack US facilities in the country.
The men, two of whom were German-born converts to Islam, were given prison sentences of between five and 12 years."
news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/8549044.stm
And now for the "raisin in the sausage", like we say in Norway:
"Norwegian police are investigating new claims that a Russian neo-Nazi arrested in Oslo last month was planning attacks on personnel at the Russian Embassy and on Norwegian muslims".
Now, does this make the polish "nazis" look any less crazy? Maybe not, but there sure is a lot of strange things going on in Israel/Europe right now. I could just as easily have found the same "crazy" people on the left, stalinists, animal liberation groups, anarchists, muslim fundementalists, feminists etc. They're all out there for those who want to see.
The nazi/skinhead movement is basically dead. What we see here are remnants of the past, trying to find a new form. The only reason nazi stuff is/was used was to get attention and to scare people. 99% of the people in these groups did not know anything about national socialism, Hitler, the war or anything. But to tattoo a swastika just meant to be a rebel, to stand out. It could just as easy be replaced with another symbol which would represent the fight against communism or muslim immigration/violence towards ethnic europeans. But the swastika or any other nazi symbol works best. The media and the leftist governments that have had control over our countries the last decades made sure of this. The communists in Oslo and other european countries could have their own house, concerts, marches, flags with communist symbols..they were free to voice their political view. The right wing had none such freedoms. This naturally created tension and animosity among the "frustrated" nationalistic elements of the population. Poland is not vaccinated against this, so there will be people who are attracted to these views and political fringe groups. How many are they in Poland? 0.000001% of the population?
Now, does this make the polish "nazis" look any less crazy?
Yea, but does it really matter who has the worst Nazis in their country, the fact of the matter is that this behaviour simply shouldn't be allowed anywhere
Just on the "how can Poles believe in Nazi ideology" thing - quite easily.
Depends on how you look at it. Just because Poland has been a victim of the ideology it doesn't mean that these nutjobs don't, in their tiny minds, still think that the ideology is a good one in general terms.
Extreme far right groups will aways face this irony. Take the likes of the BNP in England - on occasion, when it suits, they will align themselves with other European far right groups even though in practice often they would not want those same members anywhere near their own country.
The imagery is probably just for shock factor, nothing more.
But the UK is a very weird place - look at how Welsh and Scottish nationalism has grown significantly in the last 20 years. They used to play God Save The Queen at the end of the night on TV in Scotland - now? not a chance.
Yes, exactly. Scottish and Welsh nationalism have the benefit (from the elites' point of view) of weakening English (and more importantly British) nationalism.
Anything small and divisive is supported and nourished while anything that can help unite the country at the national (in international terms) level is marginalized and dismissed.
Anyone who didn't realize the UK government was trying to maximize the non-indigenous, non-Christian and non-English speaking populations a long time before it leaked into the media was not paying attention or stupid. AFAICT they're still at it, despite some lip service to the contrary.
Well i don't have a reason to lie to you zetigrek, I wrote how this works here. neonazis are not a popular movement here
YouTube, Facebook, twitter and Hollywood... ok
... street gangs, drugs lords, pimps, street crime in general... yeah I definitively saw it here. My buddy is a detective in Philly, yep it's a definitively a noticeable problem neonazis - nonexistent the KKK got neutered a long time ago, it's a social club now.
