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Poles are not racist


jon357 74 | 22,389
14 Sep 2023 #811
there's nothing wrong with the performance in question in Poland

Except insensitivity, especially since the number of black Poles is steadily growing.

very different histories

Poland has not lacked racism (both against and by locals) over the years. Perhaps they should try a bit harder with their TV.

VOA

If you watched BBC World (I don't) you'd think the whole world was so-called Palestine and India. Cheap TV and lots of material, plus commentators with axes to gr8nd about those places.

Poland gets a bad enough press anyway where racism is concerned. If Konfa with its openly racist members become a coalition partner, they'll be yet more in the world's media, even considerably more.

It's better for TV stations to play things carefully rather than carelessly.
Paulina 17 | 4,469
14 Sep 2023 #812
I'm sure there is a diversity of views

Yes, there is:

reddit.com/r/news/comments/16gps4l/outrage_as_polish_tv_talent_show_contestants_use/

"masalion
As a brown dude, I don't get it. If you're offended by people using your skin color in a non-derogatory way, aren't you implying that looking like you is somehow bad?

I love being brown, and if other people want a piece of that action, go ahead imo."

"fuckin_normie
There is a difference between using blackface as a mockery because you're racist, and making yourself look like the person you idolize. It's literally the same thing as dressing up as your favourite actor. Please let's not just put everything under one umbrella. Intentions matter"

"DWS223
Given that the United States is not the world and given that Poland's history is very different then our own, would it not be reasonable that "blackface" in Poland doesn't have the same racist connotations that it has here in the US?

Also it sounds like the whole controversy is just a handful of social media trolls. Is this even really news?"

"CopyPasteCliche
Can we take into consideration the fact that it wasn't used to mock the race but make artist appear more similar to them? It's the whole point of this ****** show.

Also I love how we are just exporting issues from US and pretend they are worldwide.

Aight downvote me now. Peace."

There are more comments like this.

however on the whole, 'blacking up' is seen negatively.

Are you sure that "on the whole"? Where exactly? In Africa? Or only in the West?

It's very weird and infantile to expect people in foreign countries with very different histories to care about localized trauma....

And ignorant and pretty self-centered/insane to me, tbh.
jon357 74 | 22,389
14 Sep 2023 #813
Yes, there is:

And you cherrypicked online stuff that you searched for.

And ignorant and pretty self-centered/insane to me, tbh.

That's certainly one take on racism, albeit ill thought out and old fashioned.

Just remember not to be so " ignorant and pretty self-centered/insane" when people disrespect Poles.
amiga500 4 | 1,529
14 Sep 2023 #814
Your post clearly suggests blacking up. A tawdry thing.

But not a hanging offence, and certainly not worth the woke outrage mob effort.
A minor faux paus in the sane western world.
jon357 74 | 22,389
14 Sep 2023 #815
outrage mob effort.

I don't see any of that, and certainly haven't seen it mentioned in the UK press which is where the people who first mentioned it here claimed to have seen it.

Most of the outraged mob are Poles trying to defend the indefensible.

They'll have more to be outraged about if Konfa ("the party for people who don't like Jews") do well and the long articles and TV shows about such things go global.
Paulina 17 | 4,469
14 Sep 2023 #816
And you cherrypicked online stuff that you searched for.

First of all, I only googled "blackface in Polish TV" and that's what came up, among others.
Secondly, I presented opinions to you that are in the opposition to yours, to stress that point that, indeed, there is a diversity of opinions concerning this matter. You claimed that "on the whole, 'blacking up' is seen negatively", but I don't see that in the comments. There are a lot of sensible comments there that I agree with.

That's certainly one take on racism, albeit ill thought out and old fashioned.

Sorry, but I don't understand what's your point here.

Just remember not to be so " ignorant and pretty self-centered/insane" when people disrespect Poles.

There was nothing disrespectful about that guy's performance. On the contrary. That's the point.
mafketis 37 | 10,851
14 Sep 2023 #817
That's certainly one take on racism

If tasteful darkening makeup to pay homage to a performer is bad, then what is a biological man putting on a dress and calling himself a woman?

Womanhood is not a costume and I find Eddie Izzard, for example, far more offensive than the Polish singer (who never claimed to be black).
jon357 74 | 22,389
14 Sep 2023 #818
First of all, I only googled "blackface in Polish TV" and that's what came up, among others.

Quite. Bad publicity.

I presented opinions to you that are in the opposition to yours,

In opposition to mainstream decent opinion.

There are a lot of sensible comments there that I agree with.

That is by no means n arbiter of what is right.
Bobko 25 | 1,973
14 Sep 2023 #819
Where exactly? In Africa? Or only in the West?

Have you ever been to Africa?

I say this because I've already heard it quite a few times where an argument is made along the lines of, "It's African-Americans that tie themselves up in knots over racial transgressions, while actual Africans don't mind it one bit."

Newsflash - they do. Africans are surprisingly proud people, who would've thought. On the one hand, they do seem to think that their American cousins are a little bit crazy, but on the other - and I assure you - they still think blackface is in bad taste.
amiga500 4 | 1,529
14 Sep 2023 #820
haven't seen it mentioned in the UK press

haha let's not tell the guardian then, it'll be on the front page.
jon357 74 | 22,389
14 Sep 2023 #821
guardian then, it'll be on the front page

I just had a look and it isn't.

I found it eventually by clicking on culture, clicking again on TV, scrolling to the bottom and there was a short article, written very neutrally and expressing surprise that such a thing might happen in today's Europe,

Poles are so often hypersensitive to criticism. Especially when they know someone in their country has dropped a bollock...
Paulina 17 | 4,469
14 Sep 2023 #822
@amiga500, The Guardian wrote about it on Tuesday already:

theguardian.com/music/2023/sep/12/polish-tv-talent-show-contestants-use-blackface-for-kendrick-lamar-beyonce-performances

Quite. Bad publicity.

Done by the UK and American press without explaining the differences between how it's viewed in Poland and in the US/UK.

In opposition to mainstream decent opinion.

First of all, that's not a decent, but an ignorant opinion, imho.
Secondly, I haven't seen a proof so far of that being an opinion of the majority of black people around the world.

That is by no means n arbiter of what is right.

But your opinion is? lol
jon357 74 | 22,389
14 Sep 2023 #823
without explaining the differences between

Why would they? They're reporting an incident, not how such an incident is viewed.

Trying to defend the indefensible.

At least you didn't say that Jedwabne was a myth or that Poland is less racist than most developed countries in a Europe.
amiga500 4 | 1,529
14 Sep 2023 #824
I just had a look and it isn't.

If there wasin't a war on, it would be. Australia already had this experience with a harmless cartoon, that created those woke world outrage cries of 'racizim'. Look jon just admit the left has absolutely no sense of humour or rational propensity.

abc.net.au/news/2019-02-25/serena-williams-cartoon-by-mark-knight-not-breach-of-standards/10844900
Lenka 5 | 3,530
14 Sep 2023 #825
Trying to defend the indefensible.

Buahaha

Why push certain countries hang ups on others? We have enough on our own

they still think blackface is in bad taste.

The thing was it wasn't a blackface.
jon357 74 | 22,389
14 Sep 2023 #826
Buahaha

Very eloquent of you.

push certain countries hang ups

Racism isn't a "hang up", nor is one newspaper putting one article about an incident on their website "pushing" anything, now, is it...

Perhaps you'd prefer that the media only report things you like.
Lenka 5 | 3,530
14 Sep 2023 #827
Racism isn't a "hang up",

No, but the experience of blackface and resulting emotions are.

Perhaps you'd prefer that the media only report things you like.

No, I would prefer they would finally understand they are not the whole world, their world view is 'not the one,true and only' and certain things may have different implications in different parts of the world.

Quite frankly I find this attitude very imperialistic.
Paulina 17 | 4,469
14 Sep 2023 #828
Why would they?

In order to be fair and objective and in order not to cause anti-Polish prejudice. Polish media somehow bothered to explain where this outrage in the West is coming from, they explained the "blackface history" to Polish readers.

They're reporting an incident, not how such an incident is viewed.

That's not true. They wrote about the "outrage" this performance caused, some articles even quoted comments of internet users ("cherrypicked", I'm sure lol).

At least you didn't say that Jedwabne was a myth or that Poland is less racist than most developed countries in a Europe.

You're such an a$$hole, jon357. You know very well that I'm not that kind of person and this topic was brought up by the most pro-black person on this forum - by pawian. If he didn't write about it, I'm not even sure if I'd hear about this controversy and know what "blackface" is.
jon357 74 | 22,389
14 Sep 2023 #829
In order to be fair and objective

They were.

Very much so.

Whether you agree with their editorial line or not.

The media doesn't exist to promote or to condemn Poland. It exists to report news, and people blacking up on TV in 2023 is news.

They wrote about the "outrage" this performance caused

It did. A great deal. And if the show continues to black singers up, there will doubtless be more.

You're such an a$$hole

I'll take that as an admission on your part that you're attempting to defend the indefensible.
Paulina 17 | 4,469
14 Sep 2023 #830
No, I would prefer they would finally understand they are not the whole world, their world view is 'not the one,true and only'

Yes, this. I'd rather the West didn't project their issues on us - as you wrote, we have enough of our own lol

Quite frankly I find this attitude very imperialistic.

Yes, very self-centered, arrogant and controlling, imho.

They were.

No, they weren't.
amiga500 4 | 1,529
14 Sep 2023 #831
I'd rather the West didn't project their issues on us

Just like they did with the world's best football referee, calling him far-right, anti-semite etc, just because he dared to attend a business conference organised by mentzen.
Paulina 17 | 4,469
14 Sep 2023 #832
It did. A great deal.

Where? In the British press?

I'll take that as an admission on your part that you're attempting to defend the indefensible.

Then you're delusional.
jon357 74 | 22,389
14 Sep 2023 #833
organised by mentzen

Definitely a bollock dropped and dropped to a low depth.

As I said before, if Konfa do well, Poland will be in the news daily, and not just because they've been blacking up minor singers on national TV, though that will doubtless be mentioned.

I hope they've learnt their lesson with that.
amiga500 4 | 1,529
14 Sep 2023 #834
Definitely a bollock dropped and dropped to a low depth.

He had a great beer advertisement. Can't fault his business acumen, as a politician, something else entirely. You think he should be blacklisted from polite society and Szymon Marciniak should have just said nah I apply 'western standards' 'just say no to hate' ? FIFA in Qatar, Saudis now taking over your Premier League? LOLZO

youtube.com/watch?v=yHsGLz2CIig
jon357 74 | 22,389
14 Sep 2023 #835
You think he should be blacklisted from polite society

He is anyway.

Someone in a high profile sports role does need to be careful who they are photographed with. Especially avoiding politicians with very extreme opinions.

Saudis now taking over your Premier League?

They've got the money and there's a lot for sale.
Paulina 17 | 4,469
14 Sep 2023 #836
Poles are so often hypersensitive to criticism.

I have nothing against valid criticism. I've criticised all kinds of stuff in Polish society/in Poland on this forum. But this time the criticism simply isn't valid in my opinion.
amiga500 4 | 1,529
14 Sep 2023 #837
He is anyway.

Thats where your warsaw milieu don't get it. he is part of polish polite society. the libertarian crowd. very sizeable in number, in poland.
Paulina 17 | 4,469
14 Sep 2023 #838
he is part of polish polite society. the libertarian crowd.

I thought you hate Konfa lol
amiga500 4 | 1,529
14 Sep 2023 #839
does need to be careful who they are photographed with.

You sound like a fake new left/woke fascist... really? be carefull of who you speak to, whom you seen with comrade?
jon357 74 | 22,389
14 Sep 2023 #840
But

This time, I doubt we'll agree.

At least they'll not pull such a stunt again.

whom you seen with comrade?

Yes, if it's a politician with particularly extreme views. Stuff like that tends to rebound on people.


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