Poles are not racist

In which case, it's the fault of the programme's organisers. Either choose a white singer to impersonate or get a black contestant on.

Most places stopped doing stuff like that years ago. The publicity of course damages Poland's reputation and I suspect there are people in PL who would rather there was no publicity at all.

It is hard to attain in Poland. There is a shortage of black singers who can impersonate other black singers. :):):)


This is Poland. We are unique. :):):)


Worse than PiS` gov??? I don`t think so. :):):)

Bring some in from elsewhere. Or impersonate white singers.

PIS is bringing them by hundred thousands but rarely there is a singer among them.


Boooring! Other races are more exciting! Diversity rulez!!! Ha!

Indeed, even though performing artists have priority for visas.

I'm guessing that it's because they don't know what this TV show is about. And if they know and still have a problem with it then it must stem from the American issues connected to slavery, racial segregation, etc. Not a Polish problem, imho.


I disagree. There was no I'll intent behind it, so I see no problem.


Perhaps "most places" have more black people that could compete in such a TV show - Poland doesn't. We also have a different history than the US and Western countries - we have no history of colonisation of Africa and enslaving their people. There was also no tradition in Poland of using "blackface" make up to ridicule black people, as far as I am aware.

Also, sorry, but this is hypocrisy - if a black girl can play a role of a white Disney character in a movie in the US ("The Little Mermaid"), then why a Polish guy can't impersonate a black singer in Poland? This is crazy.

American and British, too. It was Brits who first called it a scandal. :):)


Exactly. Whites impersonated blacks coz there weren`t enough original blacks.

I remember a few cases from Polish films. E.g this communist comedy series featured a black character. I mean not black in the script sense but dark skinned. Very positive man who was incessantly shocked and surprised at the communist reality of 1980s.

• 
  
  

Exactly. And when Michael Jackson turned white, it wasn`t a problem., either. Ha!

It seems you will always get your 5 minutes of fame globally when you turn black.

I have to think about it. :):):)
Where is this shoe polish???

Yes, exactly, I remember that too :)) There were those TV series from communist times called "Zmiennicy" about a woman pretending to be a man in order to be a taxi driver or something and I remember that there was a "black guy" character there at some point (I remembered it, because it was so unusual). He was supposed to be a foreigner, an American I think, but it was pretty obvious that it was a Polish actor with a make up. I'm guessing that they simply didn't have a black actor speaking Polish with an American accent at that time :) ;))

You are trolling now.

If diversity was a plus, the US would be Heaven, not Hell, and Nature would make kids racially random, not all white or all black. See Poland and Nigeria. All white vs. all black.

Or maybe that was "Alternatywy 4"... 🤔 But I'm pretty sure there was a "black guy" or someone who was supposed to have a darker complexion in "Zmiennicy" too.

The intent is far less relevant than the effect.

Naïveté and stupidity (which this certainly was on the part of the programme makers) is no excuse for an expensive TV show, produced and directed by people who ar supposed to be professionals, doing something as inane as this.


So impersonate white singers or bring in a black contestant.


And who first banned slavery.

Racism is good. It's survival. It applies to man and beast.
There is a reason why foxes and wolves do not form happy and peaceful societies. Men don't, either. That's why whites had to run for their lives in Africa.

I'd say that the effect should depend on the intent.

A black contestant of the show, Nick Sinckler, defends that performance:

"I can see them celebrating greatness that we've introduced into the world. If you can't see a difference between ridiculing/mocking and paying tribute to wonderful black artists whose music influenced the world... then that's your problem, not mine."

Source:

rozrywka.spidersweb.pl/twoja-twarz-brzmi-znajomo-2023-szmajkowski-humble-blackface-rasizm-polsat


There's nothing "inane" about this, considering this is the point of that TV show - impersonating singers.


Why? If a man can impersonate a female singer on that show then why can't a white man impersonate a black singer? Here's that Nick Sinckler that I quoted earlier impersonating a female singer on the show - Libianca:



I somehow can't hear anyone in the West complaining about this :))

But I suppose a man pretending to be a woman would offend RuSSian sensitivities this time lol 🤦

It never does though.


It is deeply inane and has sullied the already very poor reputation of Polish broadcasting.


Plenty do complain about drag: there are examples of it on this very forum.

Just admit it. Polish TV made an embarrassing mistake.

It clearly does - read Nick Sinckler's reaction.


Those are not the kind of people I'd like to associate myself with though. Would you?


I can't admit it, because I don't agree with your take on this. I don't see it as a mistake or that there's something wrong with it. I'm with Nick Sinckler on this - I view it exactly the way he does. So, we'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

So a comment from one bod in Poland who earns money from the same TV show makes all the difference then, does it....

Weak.


I'd not attend a BLM meeting, however their viewpoint on the issues that concern them is certainly valid. And you and I both daily associate with such people on this forum


I doubt we'll agree, and we do agree on that. Racism (whether with pointy white hats or unconscious bias) is a polarising issue unfortunately. Better to be safe than sorry.

The TV show dropped a bollock and badly. I hope they'll learn from this.

Pawian quoted a black guy from the comments on YouTube who has exactly the same view of that performance as Nick Sinckler does. So, I suspect there are more black people out there who would agree with him too.


By "associating" I meant making friends with such people or supporting their views.
As for our PF racists then I discuss and argue with them and not "associate" myself with them.


As I wrote already - Poland has a different history and different take on this. Whether a Polish TV show will take into account sensibilities from "across the pond" - I don't know, I guess we'll see. I personally think it would be taking it a bit too far and I'd rather have a discussion with black people about this than a total ban on white people performing as black artists.

I'm sure there is a diversity of views however on the whole, 'blacking up' is seen negatively.


So you think they should continue doing this?

Why not? It certainly makes the programme more interesting when contestants need to apply more effort into their transformation.


Exactly! Thank you.

Like Polish TV generally.

What a dreary reality the woke live in.... everybody stay in a tiny, tiny, tiny box...


And totally neglect one of the most creative musical legacies in popular culture history? Isn't _that_ kind of...... racis?

An Afghan American on twitter (since banned) pointed out that racialized wokeness is all about unacknowledged raceplay fetishes.... the more unaddressed the fetish the more unhinged the person becomes about racial issues....

Or just not have white people pretending to be black. It has a bad backstory.


Blackface? There are probably 10,000 more "creative musical legacies" than that one.

If they'd done it for some creative reason rather than just a particularly trashy and downmarket TV show, perhaps there would be some justification however here there is not.

Dont' play dumb, it doesn't become you.

African Americans specifically have had an amazing and creative musical tradition

So a show about popular music isn't supposed to acknowledge that?


Do tell....

• 
  
  

Your post clearly suggests blacking up. A tawdry thing.


They can if they want, and they can retain some dignity when doing it by not blacking white people up.


And the days of a white Othello and a gentile Shylock are past too.

Sorry Placido....

What about a black Desdomona (Shirley Verrett partnering the white James McCracken)

• 
  
  
• 
  
  

She wasn't smeared with white makeup though, was she.


OK until his voice went and he had to resort to Wagner.

Actually she did use makeup to lighten her skin tone when singing white characters (subtley....she didn't slather it on with a trawl or anything) and this is obvious when comparing concert or off-stage vs performance picture (or comparing pictures of her singing Tosca or Dalila).

The Polish performer in question wasn't doing minstrel show stuff or anything (and how embarrassing that that lasted into the 1970s in the UK! it was dead in the US by the 1950s).

In general it looked okay, that's not my kind of tv show but it was an homage and not ridicule.... (though raceplay fetishists will disagree).

That's the key, really. Stagecraft rather than impersonation.


It was on very occasionally until it was very banned by general consent. Towards the end, only old people watched it, and they were trying it different ways including without blackface and sometimes with black dancers however it was still of poor taste and nobody misses it now. The dance routines were well done, however the time for stuff like that was long past. I used to see it sometimes as a kid and even then thought it was a bit iffy. Back in those days there weee still erotic dance routines on Top of the Pops and women with blue hair talking about pussy.


Just a shame segregation wasn't.

When there's such a shadow over the life experience of black people (and racist attacks here in PL sometimes), a bit of caution about how whites depict them is just common sense and decency.

Agreed and my considered judgement is that there's nothing wrong with the performance in question in Poland.... (unaddressed raceplay fetishes in the UK and US might make it problematic there).

It's very weird and infantile to expect people in foreign countries with very different histories to care about localized trauma.... I'm reminded of an article about VOA in the 1970s when the policy was that the programs should be the same in every edition with the result (among lots of other absurdities) that Latin Americans and Eastern Europeans were subjected to lots of stories about Northern Ireland, which they didn't care about at all...