Poles - the Nation of Liars?

When for example an Italian cheats you he plots his con so artistically and methodically that you want to pull off your hat at him thank him for the effort and amazing technique he used for his con.On the other hand noone is willing to admit he got cheated by a Slav.

You asked for proof i gave it, simple as that. I dont know of any moderators that would lie as blatantly as Bzibzioh, i do know of a Polish forum administrator that lied though. So thats two examples of Polish people with the slightest whiff of power that have lied and anybody thats been on this forum for a while knows exactly who they are.

We were lied to by a government Nieruchomosci agent in Poland, because he was looking for a bribe. Ive been lied to from a Polish commercial property owner about rental income, ive also had a close Polish friend lie that he was getting a large sum of compensation money in order to get a loan from me, this guy even had fake documentation. Back to the estate agents though and this really is funny, every time i had a client interested in a specific property all of a sudden the owner/agent had another buyer lined up looking to purchase asap, but strangely enough they were always willing to sell to my client first....this happened numerous times. How dumb do they think we are?

The list is endless to be honest, of course all people lie from time to time but ive never experienced anything close to what i had in Poland.


jadis aka bzibzioh wont be back now that her cover is blown.

Well sorry, but I've been lied to numerous times by British letting agents, council officers, tradesmen... Does this justify me starting a thread entitled "The British - a Nation of Liars?"


Could it be due to cultural differences more than anything else? I mean, your not being able to spot a cheat or fraudster early enough to give them a wide berth?

Its not in Polish blood, its a trait that has lingered from the communist era. Lots of Polands negatives can be connected back to that. Like standing in cues for example, stamping documents etc..


tell you what my fraud spotting talents are now exemplary from my Polish experiences.


Examples please, tell me yours and i'll tell mine, excluding the tradesmen for obvious reasons. I'm particularly interested in the council officers.

I think that's a huge oversimplification.

Tradesmen: I had a faulty boiler and the landlord promised to do something about it. Sure enough, I get a phone call from the boiler guy, he'll "be right over". He never showed up, though admittedly he did call me one more time almost 10 months later to tell me that he "would pop round tomorrow".

At another property, I have had a broken window for the whole year. The window guys were repeatedly asked to show up, never did, until at last they appeared unannounced and said the window "wasn't theirs" (whatever that means).

Council officers: several instances of telling me things could not be arranged when they could. Making appointments to resolve issues, than either sending someone who was new to the case and could do nothing, or completely turning tail. Nothing serious mind you - just little untruths here and there.

Ohh come on thats chicken change, totally laughable, i had a guy show up here last week to fix a few things - realized he under quoted for the job then said he'd be back in 20 minutes, never saw him again.

I have 100% proof of Police bribery in Poland, numerous examples of bribing Doctors, even in life death scenarios.


Its a perfectly reasonable statement, obviously lying and cheating is not something specific to Polish people so there must be a reason - right? If you think its oversimplification then you must have a better theory? so lets hear it.

So is lying bad, or is it somehow gradable, and some types of lying are "better" than others?


Sure, the reason is simple: a lot of people, given the opportunity, will lie and cheat.

Let's stand this whole thing on its head. Remember the London riots and all the stealing that took place?
Well, not a single shop was even entered by the young people rioting in Warsaw on 11 November. Nothing whatsoever got stolen, though the opportunity presented itself. Won't you agree that in this case, the Polish nation demonstrated a very high level of moral integrity?

Learn some Polish you dumb ukie or go back to Ukraine.Nie mówi się PISZE tylko JEST NAPISANE.

Damn right it is. white and black lies.

This debate is not going to go anywhere, in the UK as a leading capitalist country the cons, lies and deceit are more advanced and from higher up the ranks. In Poland you have this at a lower level, they havent figured out how to totally rape the population as yet.


Well yeah give it a few years Magda, Poland is similar in many ways to Britain 30 years ago, add the communist mentality and thats where youre at right now.

I can only laugh at that..

Montreal, one of the biggest cities of our clean, honest, beautiful Canada is also a world capital of the telemarketing and phone scammers and fraudsters - having no objection to blindly rob old people of all their worldly possessions. They do it to both Canadians, as well as to Americans. You just do not realize how naive 80 years person can be at time. There are many types of scams: a long lost grandson calling for cash is one of the most "touchy" one.

Direct swindlers operate around senior homes in Toronto, typically attempt to befriend an old person, offer some services requiring some prepayment and then run away. They are caught by police some time, but since they operate in gangs money usually disappear.

Scamming is based on lying, and do I say "All Canadians are cheaters and liars"? But yet your have had no objection to say it about Poles.

Construction frauds are very popular in Ontario too, involving contractors who do cheating, stealing, misrepresenting, overcharging, substituting bad material for the good, etc. How is it typically Polish, might I ask? My buddy is just doing renovation of his house, and he is not naive and he knows his way around tools and materials, but he is already tired of dealing with so many crooks and dishonest people. Do you want to hear some individual stories?

I just wonder what's the "communist mentality" the foraigners from "west " and "east" refer to so often???What is it?Could you elaborate WB?

There even was a 3rd worlder here who attributed egging his car in Poland to this misterious "communist mentality".My car was egged in Ocean City MD USA along with all other cars on the parking lot.Do Americans suffer from "communist mentality" too?

Dealing with my German and Dutch acquaintances I couldn't resist the impression that they are a very simple-hearted if not a simple-minded person. I was jelaous because it happend me to be cheated or lied or slandered not only by stranger but by friends too and even by family. It pains the most to be cheated by people whom you (teoretically should) trust but is common here and thus became invisible. Why is that? There are many explanations:

1. Peasant/noble culture prevails citizenship culture. There is no habit to make a contract and fulfill it. This is archetypic: peasant always cheets nobleman and when you want to deal with it you have to decipher this code perfectly. This is hard. I have been learning it since my birth and still I am not good enough.

2. Lying and cheeting gives a significant profites and sometimes let you survive. There are many stories about German occupation and territory partition times in XIX century when clever Poles cheeted nasty, dangerous, sinister but simple-minded Germans and acheved live or assets.

3. If you are Protestant you truly believe that God in person keeps an eye on your account condition and Holy Mary makes a huge efforts to protect your BMW body against a single scratch. If you are Catholic you truly believe that devil does this all. It makes a difference in approach to other's property and ways leading to capture it.

Over 50% of the rioters in Warsaw were German.


It still does not make it acceptable, this is the problem as a Pole you are justifying lying and cheating as being a norm, as a Brit I am saying it is not a norm should not be considered a norm and those that practice it should be considered outcasts.


Over 50% of the rioters in Warsaw were German.


It still does not make it acceptable, this is the problem as a Pole you are justifying lying and cheating as being a norm, as a Brit I am saying it is not a norm should not be considered a norm and those that practice it should be considered outcasts.


Almost every week I encounter Poles lying in business, personal situations I firmly believe that the increasing lack of morality especially in the young in Poland is partially to do with the dwindling numbers of practising catholics, I have met some Poles over the years who are so moral due to their religious beliefs. Now I am witnessing that moral backbone slipping away here in Poland. I also believe the school system in Poland is failing the young there is so much pressure put on good exam results and getting into the best schools, many children will cheat. A recent story I was told of a child at Batory in Warsaw, this is a School that turns out many of Polands future lawyers, there was a boy who had a hate list of his co pupils, he was planning to do something bad to them, all the children on the hate list were the ones with better grades than him. These children are the future they should be nutured, the Polish system fails them and is turning out students intent on getting to the top at any cost, they do not know how to work as a team they are individuals and their emotions are suppressed.

All capitalist developed nations have these advanced scamming methods, its not that bad in Poland as yet. In Poland its more on a common man to man level, although of course that does exist as well. To say it doesn't is like claiming no body in Poland ever had the Flu.


yeah yeah i know about all of those see above.


I have an objection now, the thread was created by myself four fcuking years ago after only living in Poland for a short while. If you moved to Saudi Arabia tomorrow you might have some issues. My opinions have changed since then and i was wrong to stereotype a nation but, the lying mentality is still rife.


Listen up numb nuts and listen good, of course you will find swindlers, con men, cheats and liars from all nations but in my opinion and still my opinion it is more common in Poland - almost expected.


What is a communist mentality LOL. Thats hilarious...... awesome seo and site ranking there admin

In the context of this thread - the need to cheat before you get cheated, the vision to create illusions in order for self gain but essentially the inability to trust anyone.


Ahh how could i forget the cheating in exams. Answers written on paper then rolled and stuffed into a biro pen, girls wearing short skirts with the answers taped to their inner thighs. Come on that is a common practice in Poland too.

I know people that have bribed driving test examiners.

And?What does it prove?Ever heard this phrase coined by Americans Fake it,till you make it?Communists?If you never heard it I will explain,it means Lie and cheat until you reach your goals.

I hear that cheating on exams in Poland is more prevalent than anywhere else in Western Europe.

But not unique:


ccl-cca.ca/ccl/Newsroom/Releases/20100706AcademicDishonesty.html

The latest, if my students are anything to go by, is a thin roll of paper wound around a match. I reckon I could get five or six in the palm of my hand. Must open a new thread: Poles have the best eyesight in the world.

Cue Amonia...

good that you admitting that

I thought criticizing people's language skills was a big no-no on this forum. If not, I'll gladly point out the nine (at least) errors in fat ass's post.

Mods please advise.

It is obvious that you "westerners" try hard to be very patronizing towards "easterners" yet in your primitive minds you don't see that you are pretty much same as "easterners".

For instance,father of my buddy (an American) has a garage full of expensive tools.I asked him where he got all of them,he said "Oh,I just took it when i was retiring from Du Pont".Now,I can imagine the outcry on this forum if the guy was Polish.We already have threads "Poles are thieves","Poles steal on the job" and so on.But since the guy is an American,he just took it and he didn't see anything wrong with it.


Please do it.

Only eight in that one. Improvement! On a forum like this I agree with the policy that posters should avoid pointing out petty language errors that do not impede understanding. I've done enough teaching for one day, but I will say that people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

Firstly I do not know this guy or have first hand experience of his actions. If he stole the tools as you mentioned and the tools were not his property, he is little more than a common thief irrespective of his nationality.Moving on, from my understanding Polishforum is centered on all thing Polish specific, from my experience of this forum when issues arise focusing on the negative elements of Polish mental/psyche/attitudes too many people seem to justify unacceptable actions by Poles in Poland , by posting examples of equally unacceptable actions of people from other nations. This I find difficult to accept.

When we discuss the 'commie mentality', we have to really look at how much leeway they had to make decisions. Grubas made a good point! Just look at the corporate culture and corporate code in the West. They have the same objectives. Foreigners often loosely bandy the term 'commie' about. We also need to look at why people lie. I know many Poles who I'd never see as liars. They have no real reason to.

Seanus, so do I, can we establish your side of the fence,

1 Would it be in Poland's interests to improve its system in order to stamp out corruption/dishonesty/cheating at all levels.

or

2.Corruption/dishonesty/cheating is not a problem in Poland and therefore should be ignored.

Communist mentality: take you for a hundred zloty?
Capitalist mentality: take you for everything?

Most sensible Poles and I agree that stamping it out is the right thing to do. We might see that as obvious but there are plenty nutjobs around.

It is still a problem to a certain extent. They have really worked on it but it takes quite a while to phase sth out of a culture.

What I have to say here is that Poles speak out against it more than I do. For me, I don't feel empowered to do much about it.

As for lies, I haven't heard that many. Some lie and some don't, just like anywhere else.

WB, how does that fit in with lying? We all know that ruthless capitalists will fleece you but what is it about a 'commie' that squares with lying? If he wants to take you for 100PLN, that's a fixed amount. Where's the lie?

Nobody's saying that (well, OK, a certain Polish lawyer denies corruption in Poland), but things are definitely improving; you can see it everywhere. Only ten years ago bribery was endemic in almost every area of Polish administrative life, but now, thanks to a lessening of cronyism in the workplace, people are much more hesitant when thinking about offering sweeteners. I could list about twenty anecdotes from personal experience or the experiences of people known to me, but Poles, and people who (really) know Poland, will know what I'm talking about.

I want proof of that. I have read extensively about these riots, and I know there was a German "contingent" involved, and that approx. 50% of those arrested were foreigners, I have not come across the statement that over 50% of all the rioters were German.

As wroclaw boy, previously pointed out this thread was started more out of his personal frustration 4 years ago and he has now moved on from his original opinion,although he still considers cheating/dishonesty a problem in Poland ( this is my understanding of his more recent posts). Seanus in your opinion living in Poland for x years, is corruption/dishonesty/cheating rife in Poland circa 2011 and does it have a negative effect on Poland as a place to do business in 2011. We can take into consideration Phillips. Euro 2012 and Zlota 44 as recent examples.

You just can't get it.The point is that there is no such thing as "Polish mental/psyche".For every example of "Polish mental/psyche" feature I can easily post counter example of a non Polish person displaying the same feature.You got to go out more and mingle with some other nationalities like I do,maybe then you will get it.Another example I can give is me and my brother.We are both Polish so according to your primitive thinking we should be both displaying the same "Polish psyche" features,yet very unconvinientelly for you,we don't.I am cheap,he's a big spender,he will go out of his way to help you if you ask him and I will help you only if it doesn't cause any inconvinience to me,he will pay what you are asking or even more (yes that's right) and I will haggle for every 1 PLN,he is trusting everyone,I trust no one.