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Wish to settle down, which country to choose - Poland or Russia?


pawian 190 | 19,211
4 Aug 2022 #31
This is RuSSia - a female teacher was sentenced for telling the truth about the war in Ukraine
telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/08/04/russian-teacher-sentenced-telling-students-war-crimes-ukraine/
A court in Penza, 500 kilometres southeast of Moscow, on Thursday found Irina Gen guilty of "discrediting the Russian armed forces" under a new law that has banned any criticism of the war in Ukraine and gave her a five-year suspended sentence. The 45-year-old English teacher will also be barred from working in state schools for three years.



Alien 11 | 1,652
4 Aug 2022 #32
Let her come to Poland to teach English
Lyzko 34 | 8,342
4 Aug 2022 #33
A sound suggestion, Pawian! They certainly need it.
pawian 190 | 19,211
4 Aug 2022 #34
Let her come to Poland to teach English

If I wasn`t married, I would invite her to Poland and took care of her. :):):):) She looks extremely intelligent - typical of all teachers of English in our region.

They certainly need it.

Yes, we mustn`t forget - there are decent Russians who don`t support Putler and his KGB mafia who rule Russia.
Lyzko 34 | 8,342
4 Aug 2022 #35
Is this lady a native English speaker, I hope?
pawian 190 | 19,211
4 Aug 2022 #36
native

No, of course not. Pure Russian woman. A very decent person.

Irina Gen, the Russian teacher of English, if you can read us, you should know we wholeheartedly support you and admire your bravery and honesty.
Lyzko 34 | 8,342
4 Aug 2022 #37
Hmmm, then her English skills would most likely be rather suspect!
Unless she is a truly native bilingual in both languages and not merely
in the language of academic instruction, I'd never hire this person to
teach in my school if I were the principal.....no matter how low the price:-)
pawian 190 | 19,211
4 Aug 2022 #38
I'd never hire this person to teach in my school if I were the principal.

Let me tell you the truth - most principals have no choice. :):):) I am not bilingual, 90% of my English is of artificial academic instructions yet I receive a dozen job offers a month. :):):):)
Lenka 3 | 2,780
4 Aug 2022 #39
Not to mention that that obsession about native speakers is silly. Without native speakers in school I managed to learn enough English to post here, and move successfully to UK.
Lyzko 34 | 8,342
4 Aug 2022 #40
The point being that the average English teacher/instructor throughout
much of Eastern Europe was for many years little more than an underpaid
state-flunkey hack, at least in my experience over many years as both
language school manager and instructor.

Hopefully, this is either changing as we speak or has already changed.
If not, then the entire exercise is rather like a computer virus which infects
the whole system and can never effectively be gotten rid of.

Similarly, even one teacher's poor accent, "artificial academic knowledge",
and often sheer idiomatic ignorance can infect, in fact poison, a learner's
experience by reinforcing the non-native teacher's errors year in year out.

In the long run, the poor student must later rely solely on the availability of
educated English native speakers to undo the damage done by the non-native
English speaking instructor. This is usually costly from a financial point of view
and time consuming!
pawian 190 | 19,211
4 Aug 2022 #41
artificial academic knowledge", and often sheer idiomatic ignorance can infect,

Yes, and we come to a fundamental dilemma: which is better - to infect with artificial knowledge and still teach some basics or not to infect and teach nothing in case there is no native bilingual educator. :):):)
Lyzko 34 | 8,342
4 Aug 2022 #42
Neither one is a viable option, in my professional opinion.
Perhaps the issue will never be resolved, as it seems not only
Poland, but many neighboring countries would rather save on
top quality by getting cut-rate English teachers instead of digging
deep and spending on the best.

A majority feel as Lenka that the insistence of native English instruction
is silly, since as long as people "understand" a person, there's no problem.
On the other hand, maybe the Brits are only being polite and expect less
from a foreigner speaking English than one of their own.

My philosophy here is, if you're not going to do it right, don't do
it at all!
Alien 11 | 1,652
4 Aug 2022 #43
@Lyzko
English wants to be a World Language. It must be cheep and overall available so don't do it right, just do it.
Lyzko 34 | 8,342
4 Aug 2022 #44
D'you mean "cheAp", Alien? :-)

I couldn't disagree with you more. Would you or anybody here
want a generation of English students to wind up speaking like the
character Latka Gravas on the US '70's-TV series "Taxi"??

Clearly not, I hope and pray.

Moreover, precisely because English strives to be a world language aka
"passport to the world", shouldn't we try to keep our passport in better
condition?
Novichok 3 | 7,602
4 Aug 2022 #45
English wants to be a World Language.

English IS...
Novichok 3 | 7,602
4 Aug 2022 #46
My philosophy here is, if you're not going to do it right, don't do it at all!

Biggest crap ever posted. Learning is a ramp, not a 0-to-100 step function.
If I followed this incredibly stupid advice, I would still be in Poland since my English wouldn't be good enough to go to "America", look for a job, get hired, meet people, get a DL, eat out,...
mafketis 34 | 12,243
4 Aug 2022 #47
er English skills would most likely be rather suspect!

Nonsense... she simply needs to know English better than her students... a large majority of learners of English in Poland do not need native speaker teachers, they need communication skills that can be taught be non-natives just as well. Certain specialists will need native models but they're not the majority.

if you're not going to do it right, don't do it at all!

More nonsense... English is a pluricentric language which means there is more than one standard and things that are correct in one place will be incorrect in another.

"The government are." is not correct in the US (though it is in the UK) and "She had gotten it" is not correct in the UK (though it is in the US). Things are even more unstable with pronunciation.

She'd do fine in Poland (though I really doubt she'd want to).
Lyzko 34 | 8,342
5 Aug 2022 #48
Of course she'd "do fine" teaching English in Poland; no one would know (or hear)
the difference vs. a native English speaker of similar background LOL

My Latka Gravas analogy still applies; he doesn't hear how he sounds in English
and frankly, nobody around him really cares one way or the other! They figure he
just sounds weird and so the heck with it all.

@Maf, French too is a pluricentric tongue, yet care and attention are taken by her
writers, not to mention rank-and-file users, to ensure that her standard remains high,
no matter how "creative".

Face it, folks. All of us are applying the eternal double standard when it comes to English
and I'm getting pretty sick of it.
mafketis 34 | 12,243
5 Aug 2022 #49
eternal double standard when it comes to English and I'm getting pretty sick of it.

English can be a native, ethnic language with high standards maintained and learned mostly by those who care about it or an international language that most people are forced to learn no matter whether they care about it or not.

Can't have both (think cakes and having and eating).
pawian 190 | 19,211
5 Aug 2022 #50
and I'm getting pretty sick of it.

Lyzko, I can` t recognise you. Such an amasing change of style of expression. Very interesting. :):):)
Alien 11 | 1,652
6 Aug 2022 #51
@pawian
He must have moved to another neighborhood?
Atch 17 | 4,046
6 Aug 2022 #52
to UK.

to the UK ;)
jon357 71 | 20,403
6 Aug 2022 #53
she simply needs to know English better than her students

And be able to teach.

English is a pluricentric language which means there is more than one standard

This is very true.
pawian 190 | 19,211
6 Aug 2022 #54
to the UK ;)

Yes, we need to be careful, Big Mother is watching.
Lyzko 34 | 8,342
6 Aug 2022 #55
Again Mafketis and jon, I roundly concur, indeed thoroughly accept, the fact
that there is not ONE "English" standard! My point is, has been, and always
will be that whatever the standard, it nonetheless should remain a consistently high
one.

Who would have thought when I was in school that the English language, pride
of so many countries which speak her as their authentically native tongue, would
somehow become the rubbish bin of language, the pit into which all the filth spewed
forth by the lazy and ignorant?

There's British English, American English, Canadian English, and "Austrailish".
Yet all four strive to maintain a commensurately engaging level of
usage.

Compare US-American today with fifty or more years ago. Even within my brief
lifetime of fifty-something, the language has been experiencing a sort of schlerosis,
an Alzheimer's, before our very ears. Basic vocabulary such as "trestle", "siblings",
"to fare" and so forth has practically disappeared from daily speech and the only
way Millenials would ever recognize them, would be if they had unusally older parents.

@Bless you, Atch! From your click to his eyes.
Miloslaw 14 | 4,532
6 Aug 2022 #56
English wants to be a World Language. It must be cheep and overall available so don't do it right, just do it

Couldn't agree more.
As long as you are understood, it works.

whatever the standard, it nonetheless should remain a consistently high
one

Rubbish!
It's about communication not perfecrion.

@Lyzko

As usual, you have missed the point completely.

The reason why English is the number one language in the world is exactly because you can get it wrong and still be understood.
Which is not so possible in most languages.
mafketis 34 | 12,243
6 Aug 2022 #57
Which is not so possible in most languages.

No... all languages are like that. I've heard Polish that would make your hair stand on end "Ja nie ma czas tam iƛć" (not a real example but similar to things I've heard). That didn't stop it from being completely understandable to the Polish people it was directed to.

All human languages can be put in the wringer and be understood... English speakers are maybe unique in not especially caring about how non-native speakers express themselves....
Lyzko 34 | 8,342
8 Aug 2022 #58
...and getting it wrong means that true understanding is missing, if
we're talking here only about approximation rather than exact transference
even of a simple message:-)

Marek: Ach, co za piekne Stare Miasto!

Krzysia: Mark, it's ok, we talk more English language.

Marek: Oh, I just remarked how beautiful your Old Town is!

Krzysia: No, why? Buildings are still same age as other buildings,
I mean, like,uh, no not really!

Marek: Ahem, sorry Christina, I only meant that the architecture is
so pretty.

Krzysia: I dunno. It's like we don't see any difference, sort ot...

Marek: Krzysiu, moze byc tu nie zrozumialas mojego zdania.

Krzysia: Hey, Mark! I f****** understand all what you talk, but
it's stupid, you know!

Etc..ad nauseum.

Should I be barked at by a foreigner for speaking THEIR native language
in THEIR OWN country??!
Clearly, my friend merrily misunderstood what I was driving at, yet was too stubborn
to admit it. Such conversations I'm sure are repeated a bazillion times, yet few will admit it.
mafketis 34 | 12,243
9 Aug 2022 #60
a foreigner for speaking THEIR native language in THEIR OWN country?

if you're in their country, they YOU are the foreigner....

and I have no idea what point the dialogue was trying to make...


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