Poland's birthrate on the decline

Like accidents, it happens.
They need things. Things cost money. So let's kill them before they are registered. Is that the conclusion?

Poland is not the only country with declining population especially in Eastern Europe.
Why is that ?
When Poland was poor after world war 2 the birth rate was much stronger !
I guess the reason is not only about money

We are becoming ( in Europe) perhaps more lazy and want good things in life .
It is good i guess.

But we do not see the future problems we will have without kids.
Who will take care of the elderly ? Who will pay the retirement ? Who will protect the country against invaders ?
For a country to have a future we need lot of kids at least 2 by family.

A new BMW vs a kid? Easy choice. A BWM will never get pregnant, be on drugs, or tell you that you are stupid 15 years after purchase.

SELFISH is the word you are looking for.
It's all about me, I, me today.

People nowadays are much more concerned with job security as well as retirement possibilities than was the case years ago!

Instead of castigating those who which to hold off on having children, perhaps ask why this trend came about in the first place. Easy to say, "Oh, go forth and multiply!" etc. ad nauseum, but who's going to be responsible for those children should they become ill and require medical attention??

When we decided to have children, we were only able to do so as both my wife and I were working. As things grew more stable for me, she was able to stay at home and tend to raising the children, yet we are still the ONLY ones among our circle of friends who made the decision to do so.

Had I relied solely on my tenured position, it would have been next to impossible. In certain countries, parents automatically receive an advance which enables income-strapped families to facilitate their child rearing.

In the US, such is confined principally to Third-World immigrants or political refugees and their families.

The days of "Leave it to Beaver" are sadly long over, ne're likely to return any time soon.

It's actually very simple. Globalization means well-paying factory jobs out, cheap immigrant labor in = collapsing wages = two have to work to support the family = fewer kids = more immigrants "because we don't have enough people".

And the circle is closed. In engineering, it's known as positive feedback - a phenomenon good only if one is trying to detonate a nuclear device.

Look genius. Maybe you didn't notice but we are in the era that marks beging of the end of the time of globalization.

@Cojestdocholery
Wars, or fears of war tend to push for protectionist policies

The childless by choice movement in Poland has taken thirty somethings by storm and is now trickling down to women in their 20s, single or otherwise, as soon as they see their life as a possession that children destroy.

I can't even count the number of articles I've seen on this topic of basic reasons why women are confident they'll never want kids, with the grand conclusion that her personal happiness is most important and that children put that happiness in dire danger.

Take the Polish girls here on this forum alone that are childless.

At least women are aware these days of how selfish they are and avoid cheating a child out of a fulfilled life.

@johnny reb

It's a horrible mentality, thankfully any women not wanting kids automatically has No chance at a proper relationship with me. So for myself I am not that much concerned.

How it will affect society however and the smaller pool of options for my future kids however is worrying.

My sons wouldn't be interested in 30-50 age group of childless wanting women for sure and my daughters would for sure be found proper men that wouldn't only take care of her needs, but that also of the families needs.

Anything less would be unacceptable, thankfully there are more and more men taking more care of themselves and uptying the antie.

Women however... Have a hard time seeing any of my future sons get married to say the least. Not much to choose from in that respect

Lets hope you won't have to face the facr that your sons and daughters may have different opinion. If you will have them.

Remember - do NOT correct nature, Grunni. If some women don't want to have children, that means nature doesn't want them to multiply (and listening to some childless women I can imagine why nature doesn't want them to multiply :D). Don't force them. Don't reason with them. Nature doesn't want their genes to multiply (maybe it's a question of certain illnesses in future generations, maybe something else - nature knows the best).

@Lenka
I would been surprised if they wouldn't have different opinion then mine. However I would be very open about what I expect from them, just as they will be with me. I do not expect you to understand that however Lenka. It's a different family dynamic at my family. Your fears doesn't concern that of my family.

@GefreiterKania
Ladonna mobile, my mom didn't want to have kids at age of 26. Somehow she changed her mind upon meeting a very tall blond playing guitar fella ;)

Certain things aren't set in stone. Those who don't want contact with me simply won't contact me nor my children. It's a very problem free approach really

So, eventually she wanted children. I am talking about so-called stare panny 35+ - who never wanted and won't have children. In their case it was the nature acting, and it's for the greater good of humanity that they never multiplied.

@GefreiterKania
Who in their right mind would want children with stare panny dear Torqi

35+ is too old for me anyways. I date 18-26 preferably

Well, you know the old rule - your age divided by two, plus seven. :)

@GefreiterKania
Why would I bother about that when women are messaging to meet up

My concern is wether or not she would be too attached to me

onet.pl/styl-zycia/noizz/68-proc-polek-nie-planuje-posiadania-potomstwa-wyrazna-zmiana-w-porownaniu-do/qn71ems,3796b4dc

Problems continue. According to new survey over 60 % of Polish women don't plan to have a child..
While a lot can be explained by more women being in the order group than at the last poll there are some changes that are bad news:

CBOS wskazuje, że w stosunku do 2017 r. bardzo wyraźnie wzrósł odsetek kobiet bezdzietnych w wieku 18-45 lat w ogóle nieplanujących potomstwa - z 22 proc. do 42 proc.]

The amount of women not planning to have any kids went from 22 to 42%.

I'm guessing that such poll would look different in the UK:

kobieta.wp.pl/polki-rodza-chetniej-na-emigracji-w-polsce-nie-zdecydowalabym-sie-na-dziecko-6832478455073440a

Total fertility rate for Polish women born in Poland, but living in the UK is 2.03, while for native British women it's 1.54. Even British women in the UK give birth to more kids than Polish women in Poland though:

demagog.org.pl/analizy_i_raporty/wspolczynnik-dzietnosci-w-polsce-najnowsze-dane-gus/

According to official Polish data (GUS report from 2021) in May 2020 fertility rate for Polish women in Poland was 1.378.

Conclusion: British "femi-Nazi" women are more willing to give birth in the "woke" country of the United Kingdom than Polish women in the Catholic "pro-family" Poland run by a conservative, anti-woke, right-wing government.

Also, ironically, Poland has one of the most stringent abortion laws in Europe and at the same time one of the lowest birth rates in the EU.

Yes. Thanks to PiS, bearing children has come to an end. Polish women refuse to have children when their rights are limited by rightist gov. Simple. Most women don`t want to risk getting pregnant if they have to deliver a foetus with terminal defects. The times of Polish Mother who clenched her teeth and endured every life trouble and discomfort have passed irrevocably.

Is that what you read ?
I read it was because of the covid vaccine that was making women sterile. :-)
My personal opinion is that a few generations ago we needed a large family to survive.
Many hands make light work.
My personal opinion is that today with the technology of modern machinery large families are not necessary anymore.
Plus with all the new women's rights laws today, the women have become lazy compared to before we gave them the right to vote and say no to sex on demand.

Nope, that`s just another bollox urban legend theory. Don`t fall for them. :):)


Quite credible. I will take it into account in future discussions. :):)


After centuries or even millenia of male domination over women, the time for full liberation has come. It is unstappable. Anybody who opposes it is pissing agaionst the wind.

"we gave them the right to vote"

No, we didn`t. Women secured it for themselves through their resolute determination. Males didn`t give anything on their own, they were pressed and forced to yield to women`s demands.

We know........Called power of the pooter.

Yes, yes, yes, but when people try to right a wrong they can often cause unforseen problems from their actions.

Should women receive equal pay for equal work?
Sounds like a no brainer.
But what about the fact that women can get pregnant and have babies they then need to care for?And can no longer work?

When I was a kid, men earnt much more than women.
Which meant that my mum did not have to work as my dad earnt enough.
She was a full time mum.
Now, with equal pay, men earn less, because women earn more.
Result?
The women have to work to make up the shortfall in income.....
Result?
Kids don't have their Mum around and the parents have to pay for expensive childcare, eating up a large chunk of the working woman's salary.

Who are the winners and losers here?
The employers lose out by having to pay women more, but they gained by having to pay men less.so they are even.

Kids lose out because they don't have their Mum all day.

The big losers?
Women.
They could have had the luxury of bringing up their kids properly, now they have to go to work to help to pay for somebody else to bring up their kids....it is a tragedy...

And a great example of how people try to right a wrong, but do not think it through properly and don't foresee what problems it will cause.

Do you all still support equal pay for women?

Thank you very much for that luxury I happen to like to work.

And most of the women around me wanted to go back to work after maternity.


Yes.

Wanted or had to?

9 out of 10 women I know would rather stay at home with kids, if only they could afford it. So the question is: do we create a system that accommodates the 10% that want to work or the 90% that want to raise their children properly.

If we choose the former, let's not be surprised that Europeans are dying out. Stupidity has a price - a very high price.

@pawian
Please tell me one specific "right" that men have that women do not. Just one. Not being a smart a$$ here just asking the question.

Birth rates are on the decline for many reasons. Feminism and women's rights activism is part of it, but not all of it. So many facets to this discussion no one could ever cover them all. But a lot of good points made here concerning income equality and other items. While declining birth rates are the problem, what is best for the children actually being born is also a big part of the problem that many do not wat to discuss.

@Miloslaw
Makes some very important points about families, raising children and other dynamics. Isn't what's best for the child the most important part of this discussion? Its a scientific fact that when mothers stay home with their children in their first formative years that the children have better lives, do better in school, are more well adjusted behaviorally, and have better relationships with their parents over the course of their lives. All the talk about population decline seems to be focused on what the adults want and not what children need, and for me that is the bigger problem.

OK. Let's start from the beginning:

In order for man to have decent wage women have to earn pinuts?

If women were so happy staying at home how did we saturated the market enough to have to drop the mans' wages?

And when did we could afford that for most of society in Poland anyway? Usually people worked, maybe not on a payroll but still.

How is it that, even when possible, so few man grab that wonderful opportunity to stay at home? Did any of you? Even for a year?

What with women that don'thave kids? How are they supposedto


Wanted to. We had that conversationat work last week. 3 mothers- all 3 said they can't imagine staying at home long term.

And even women that do want to stay at home usually think along the lines of things being the same just not working. They don't think about financial dependency, stress of the only bread winner not being able to earn, brake up or death etc

Because at first it'sthe adults who have to decide to have kids. So that is what impacts the birthrate

@Lenka
I agree, but I think that's an oversimplification of the issue. It comes down to values. What are the values of men, women and couples. For too long, in my opinion, values have been sacrificed in pursuit of money from both sexes, and the pursuit of women's "rights". Not blaming women here, just giving a point of view. So, I ask the general question to you, what "right" does a man have that a woman does not?

While many are complaining about traditional values and traditional roles within the family dynamic, there has to come a point where we all recognize how the changes in the family dynamic over the last 30 years, have affected the birth rates of Poland and other countries.

I appreciate that three women in your group were talking and I appreciate their opinions. When does the man's opinion come into the discussion, or what men want, and what children need. Lets not forget, that not all pregnancies are planned. Lets also not forget that people, in todays world, often get caught up in their own goals, and lose track of time. A friend of mine, female, said just the other day, that she just realized she may not be able to have children now at 39 safely and she can't believe she forgot to have children younger. She now has huge regret chasing a career and not having children. A nice car, clothes and vacations won't be visiting your grave. There is just not enough thought being given to the family today, and too much emphasis on things and accumulating things instead in having a life.