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Babcia or Busha - any social class difference?


Teffle 22 | 1,321    
20 Dec 2010  #121
He he, that's for sure! :-)

Or worse "well the reason I enjoy fags is that I like to have something in my mouth"

A not impossible thing for an Irish/British english speaker to say : )
delphiandomine 86 | 16,341    
20 Dec 2010  #122
Hahahahaa, thank you!

I always use "can you pick up some fags on the way home please?" with my students :)
polishmama 3 | 280    
20 Dec 2010  #123
You just said they were "uneducated peasants!" How could they be expected to use their language correctly? They probably didn't even know the correct word for grandmother.

Can I just comment that when someone is uneducated, they tend to only speak one language, the local dialect? Therefor, the only language they would speak would be their own, so if they are Polish, they would know the correct word for grandmother, as it would be the only word they know for it. So, they would be expected to use their own language correctly, as it is the only one they know and use...

I think part of the whole issue of why a Russian sounding word was also adopted into the pseudo-Polish used in the US, is that many Poles seemed to be ashamed (for who knows what reason) to act Polish, just as the Irish did and the Germans did and all other ethnic groups did when they came over in waves.
monika87 - | 55    
20 Dec 2010  #124
What does Bush have to do with babcia? lol

LMAO I have asked that to myself too when I heard BUSHA!!!! LMAO

nana:
Both are correct.

No, they aren't. The proper Polish language is the one used in Poland. 'Busia' or 'Busha' are neologisms and don't figure in any Polish dictionaries. The fact that some word is widely used by Americans of Polish descent does NOT make it a proper Polish word.

Exactly! But the Americans always expects to get special treatment.
polishmama 3 | 280    
20 Dec 2010  #125
So, I think all the people who speak Polish here are saying, it's Babcia. It doesn't matter what you think it is, what you grew up calling your grandmother as a third generation Pole. It's nice you try, but it's Babcia.

Btw, I have also 5 Polish-English Dictionaries here ranging from the 70's to today for my husband, (some printed in Poland under Communism, some after, some from the US now and some from the US in the 70's, etc.) and nowhere is there Busia, or other varieties...

And if you go to a website that translates Polish and English, like poltran.com or babylon, etc. Busia does not show up. Babcia does... Hmmm, since they are done by Polish speakers, I think it's.... Babcia.
cheehaw 2 | 264    
20 Dec 2010  #126
for what it's worth, I was always told that 'Babcia' was a ukranian/polish form of Busia.

Where I come from, the old pollacks frowned upon it's use, because they were very opposed to being identified with ukranians.

I think I may have actually been spat on once even as a kid for using it without knowledge of the above.
polishmama 3 | 280    
20 Dec 2010  #127
the old pollacks frowned upon it's use

Well, with the racial slur used there, I'm going to assume you mean they are stupid and uneducated Polish people.

I have a question, to those who use Busia, are you all in the east coast, or Chicago or another specific place? I wonder if it is a particular area of the US that uses it more than others. In MD, I know the Polish Americans who lived in a particular section of the city once nicknamed "Little Poland" called it that.

It's interesting. There is a huge cultural gap between the Polish American and Poles coming to America. H-U-G-E...
cheehaw 2 | 264    
20 Dec 2010  #128
actually I use the word pollack quite lovingly, I am one.

I asked the question as kid and that is the answer I got. pretty funny, that 10-15 years later as a college student in New York City, one of my favorite places to eat was this little Ukranian restaurant in the east village called 'Odessa".

In that restaurant, the word "babcia' was heard often. You could just sit there eating and you would hear it 5 or 6 times in 30 minutes, really. I did ask the waitress what version of grandma that was and even she said it was ukrainian.

I am pretty sure Odessa still exists in the east village, on Ave A and 6th St. Go there yourself and ask the ukranians what they think if you don't believe me.
polishmama 3 | 280    
20 Dec 2010  #129
actually I use the word pollack quite lovingly, I am one

That's nice, how you use it and how you view yourself, but the word you are using is a racial slur and offensive to those of us who are Polish. It's as bad as the n***** word. Doesn't matter how you use it, it's still a racial slur.

if you don't believe me.

I'm not going to argue what you were told by who, but as a person born in Poland, just like the others who either are or were born in Poland, it's Babcia. I have no idea why in your neck of the woods the Polish descendants (bc they probably aren't 1st gen Polish, I'm going to assume) say that word is Ukrainian, and the pseudo-Russian word is Polish...

Idk, but I'm currently looking for a study in lingustic history of the American word Busia, I'll post it when I find it.
cheehaw 2 | 264    
20 Dec 2010  #130
That's nice, how you use it and how you view yourself, but the word you are using is a racial slur and offensive to those of us who are Polish. It's as bad as the n***** word. Doesn't matter how you use it, it's still a racial slur.

yes, and I am sure our friend Chicago_Pollack will be very interested in your opinion too.

maybe you are just insecure or something.
Des Essientes 7 | 1,296    
20 Dec 2010  #131
[quote=polishmama]I have a question, to those who use Busia, are you all in the east coast, or Chicago or another specific place?[/quote

Busia was the term used by my family for my great-grandmother in Detroit, and here in California I once met another Polish-American who used the word when referring to his grand-mother.
polishmama 3 | 280    
20 Dec 2010  #132
Des Essientes
Do you know if they always lived there in terms of the family once they left Poland, or did they at some point as a family live anywhere else, either in the US or abroad, prior to settling in those areas? I'm really curious about this.

our friend Chicago_Pollack

CP is not my friend, he is a person on this forum. He is also not interested in my opinion or any others who are offended by that racial slur. The moderator had to clear a thread because he made that slur and it was explained why it was considered offensive.

maybe you are just insecure or something.

Go to an African-American function, say the "n" word, and see what happens. They are not insecure, it is merely an offensive word. Everyone knows that. P****** is also offensive, in the same exact way, yet many don't think it is bc Polish Americans use it. Well, Poles straight from Poland are offended by it. I don't understand why when someone says "Hey, that offends me, it's a racial slur" the person saying it gets offended, as if they were addressed with a racial slur or something themselves. It's a racial slur, it's offensive, you don't say it. End point.
Des Essientes 7 | 1,296    
20 Dec 2010  #133
Do you know if they always lived there in terms of the family once they left Poland, or did they at some point as a family live anywhere else, either in the US or abroad, prior to settling in those areas? I'm really curious about this.

All of my paternal great-grandparents snuck into the USA via a German ship that docked in Baltimore. Busia and my great-grandfather lived briefly in West Virginia and then Ohio before settling in Michigan.
polishmama 3 | 280    
20 Dec 2010  #134
Interesting... Baltimore is a city where I've noticed the older 2-4th generation Poles used the words Busia and Dziadzi or Jaja...
cheehaw 2 | 264    
20 Dec 2010  #135
However, the word busha itself does not show up in the Polish dictionary...

dictionaries are not always perfectly correct. If you compare a webster's dictionary printed in the year 2000 with a webster's printed in 1960 you will find plenty of discrepancies.
polishmama 3 | 280    
20 Dec 2010  #136
You are right, Cheehaw, you know better polish than we do...
cheehaw 2 | 264    
20 Dec 2010  #137
Probably not, but my Busha spoke 3 or 4 English words at most and the rest was Polish, much to your consternation. Had i called her babcia she would have ignored me.

You seem to have gotten up on the wrong side of the bed this morn, mama.
polishmama 3 | 280    
20 Dec 2010  #138
No no, I won't argue, you are right. Sorry, I'll call my grandmother in poland right now and call her Busia bc I've been wrong all these years... I'll be sure to let all my family over there (over 100 members) know that we are all wrong... Didn't wake on the wrong side, btw, just letting you win this discussion.
cheehaw 2 | 264    
20 Dec 2010  #139
what makes you so sure she's of 100% Polish descent just because she lives in Poland?

If this board is any example of modern day Poland, a lot of people living in Poland today are not really Polish either. We left Poland 100 years ago, as it was being over run by Ukranians claiming to be Polish too.

It's just a matter of borders and piece of paper that says Polski or Polska these days. Rather meaningless.

I honestly don't mean to offend you and I have no idea what you are getting so gagged up about.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837    
20 Dec 2010  #140
We left Poland 100 years ago, as it was being over run by Ukranians claiming to be Polish too.

I must be living in a parallel universe... My history is not your history. Could you elaborate on the above, pretty please with cherry on top?

BTW: sjp.pwn.pl/szukaj/busia
polishmama 3 | 280    
20 Dec 2010  #141
If this board is any example of modern day Poland

Trust me, this board is NOT an example of modern day Poland.

http://sjp.pwn.pl/szukaj/busia

SHOK

poltran.com/odp.php4?q=1&direction=2&word=BUSIA

en.bab.la/dictionary/polish-english/busia

Margaret, I assume you are from Poland, as I am, but you and I must be secretly Ukrainians who's people 100 years ago pretended to be Polish (because people like to change their family culture and turn their backs on their way of life for centuries in order to take over a country, I am sure Ukrainians would love to hear that, that they secretly envied the Poles so much that they did that, sure) and we just don't know as much as people who's family left Poland (supposedly Poland) 100 years ago.

I need to know the source of this "history" as well.

And you know, the only person in my very very large family (on both sides) who ever says Grandmother in Polish was my living grandmother, none of my cousins, cousins cousins, uncles, great uncles, etc. ever used that word or had this very same discussion with me about why Americans call it Busia.

I honestly don't mean to offend you and I have no idea what you are getting so gagged up about.

You are basically using racial slurs, calling me NOT Polish, saying you know more about a country and culture that you have never been to than I do. Wouldn't you get offended if an Italian guy who has lived in Italy all his life who's one greatgrandmother came from the US, or whatever other country your family is also from, and said they knew more about the US or whatever than you? AND called you some derogatory name about being American, like Mutt, or something? You would get offended too.

she's of 100% Polish descent just because she lives in Poland?

I researched it, for one, to reclaim my Polish passport, 4 generations back. I don't say one family member in my family is Polish, I'm saying they all are. Again, over a hundred members, and I count also the in-laws who are not even related to me. You can't claim your polish passport unless you have Polish Blood, not someone living there who's related to you. It's not like getting a US passport. If I was, say, Greek, lived in Poland, left to some other country, had a kid, I couldn't get them a Polish Passport. Because they wouldn't have Polish Blood.

dictionaries are not always perfectly correct

No, but like I said, I have 5 FIVE from the 70's to today, are they ALL wrong?

what makes you so sure she's of 100% Polish descent

I love how MY Polish heritage is questionable, but your's from 4 generations back in the US (when I have met many people here who call themselves 100% Polish although one or even grandparents was Slovak or Hungarian or Ukrainian or whatever, not to say they all are, I'm just saying they all aren't) is written in gold, no doubts at all.

Okie dokie, now, please share your history lesson...
delphiandomine 86 | 16,341    
21 Dec 2010  #142
Well, Poles straight from Poland are offended by it.

Wrong. Poles couldn't care less about it - because they don't know it as a racial slur.

We left Poland 100 years ago, as it was being over run by Ukranians claiming to be Polish too.

Uh, when did this happen? If they left 100 years ago, there was no Poland - so how could Ukrainians "overrun" it?
kondzior 8 | 914    
24 Dec 2010  #143
While I do not find the word pollock offensive in itself, I do know that Westerners, especially Americans, mean it in offensive way, so I act accordingly.

To stay on topic. I have spent my (almost) entire life in Poland and the first and only time I have seen the word busha, it was here, on Polish Forums. And here only. Now, while I recenty interacted, quite vigorously, with Americans, I have never met Polish Americans in real life.
Teffle 22 | 1,321    
24 Dec 2010  #144
Just a point on this: whatever about Polak or Polack, unless I'm missing something, pollock is unrelated - in fact in English, it's a fish !!

Not directing at you Kondzior - I've seen it a lot on PF.

Maybe it's an alternative reference to Poles but it seems strange.
ShawnH 8 | 1,502    
24 Dec 2010  #145
unless I'm missing something, pollock is unrelated

I've thought about that too, but I think it is a phonetic thing. Spell it the way it sounds (when the insult is flung, that is....). Kind of sounds like Poe-lock.
delphiandomine 86 | 16,341    
24 Dec 2010  #146
Dumb Pollock, dumb Polak, dumb Polack, dumb Pollack..all the same :P
ShawnH 8 | 1,502    
24 Dec 2010  #147
Maybe a regional accent thing?
delphiandomine 86 | 16,341    
24 Dec 2010  #148
I think it's just because it's an anglicised word, so there's no accepted spelling - probably because it's not actually being taught or used anywhere official-ish.

From what I can see, it's just like any other slur - some people embrace it, others get offended by it. But it's certainly an American thing - I still haven't met any Poles who knew what "polack" meant in English.
ShawnH 8 | 1,502    
24 Dec 2010  #149
probably because it's not actually being taught or used anywhere official-ish.

What's more official than this online dictionary?

But it's certainly an American thing - I still haven't met any Poles who knew what "polack" meant in English

Never really heard it in Canada, (other than from American Media) so you might be right...
delphiandomine 86 | 16,341    
24 Dec 2010  #150
What's more official than this online dictionary?

I haven't even looked at it yet, but I bet it's good ;)




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