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Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun?

mafketis 16 | 6,334    
13 Apr 2018  #751
Firstly you have the extreme groups like those amongst the Mormons who practise polygamy

They're not fundamentalist Christians, many theologians wouldn't consider them to be Christian at all (they call themselves Christians but many disagree) they have some seriously weird rituals like the veil ceremony (filmed in secret and now available on youtube I highly recommend watching)

And mainstream Mormons no longer practice polygamy (there are some very small rebel offshoot groups that do but they're not officially Mormons)

The Amish also have had under age sex scandals.

Also not fundamentalist Christians. In the US context 'fundamentalist Chistian' refers almost exclusively to evangelical groups devoted to ideas like literal interpretation of the Bible, being 'born again' as an adult, tithing etc)

And crucially evangelicals have some influence as a voting bloc but no real power in practical terms. I agree there's lots of crazy on the fringes (like a group that wanted/s to base the legal system on the bible) but they have no chance of exercising real power.

Just bear in mind that America produced the Ku Klux Klan

A couple of different times, but IINM they reached their membership peak in the 1920s (slight revival as an underground terrorist organization in the civil rights era) but they've been close to having anything like real political power, racist institutional power in the South had other foundations and heavily depended on setting blacks and poor whites against each other...
johnny reb 16 | 3,225    
  13 Apr 2018  #752
Thanks for making my morning Atch.........LOL.
Can we all get back on topic here.......still LOL.
delphiandomine 86 | 16,949    
  13 Apr 2018  #753
Thing is, with Middle-Eastern funded Americans trying to secure residency in Poland through marriage, we might just need guns to protect ourselves against them and their influence.

They will no doubt work against Polish interests by virtue of who their paymaster is, and being armed is certainly one way to discourage them from coming.

As they say: follow the cash.
johnny reb 16 | 3,225    
13 Apr 2018  #754
Didn't you get YOUR residency by marrying your ex Polish wife ?
Isn't that being a tad hypocritical.
You also admitted to why you moved from Scotland to Poland yourself, remember.

We are succeeding - in 2015, 23% of young (aged 18-25)

Remember you boasting about your NTO club or whatever you called it ?
Promoting homosexuality in Poland where homosexuality is frowned on heavily.

Polish men reported having at least one homosexual encounter in the last year.

You may have been discouraged from such a move to spread your propaganda if the Polish citizens were allowed to have guns if anyone.
And yet you have the hypocritical audacity to troll your hate towards Americans here every day.
Just saying.................
Now lets get back on topic delph and knock off your trolling.
Dirk diggler 8 | 3,852    :-(
  18 Apr 2018  #755
Rofl atch first off Mormons and Amish dont even live in the bible belt. Mormons live in Utah and Amish live in rural northeast and Midwest. The bible belt is the mid Atlantic and southern states which are predominantly protestant lutheran Baptist evangelical 7th day etc and there's people of all colors of these faiths not just whites. The education rates are totally average by rural us standards and some of the best and largest colleges are in bible belt cities. These states are more conservative hence their lax gun laws and in the evangelical communities religion is huge. But that doesn't mean the young generations dont go to college, use the web, have fun, etc. The cults you speak of arw a tiny minority living in their own solitary communities. Theyre no different than other us cults including Hindu Swamis or Hasidic communities or salafis

please stick to the topic
Dirk diggler 8 | 3,852    :-(
  18 Apr 2018  #756
Oh and fyi the KKK was made by Democrats, not Republicans...

What americans all across us want is for effective and safe gun laws - not the elimination of all guns for citizens who can legally acquire them altogether although the left keeps pushing that even though itll never happen in America.
delphiandomine 86 | 16,949    
18 Apr 2018  #757
What americans all across us want is for effective and safe gun laws

What surprises me is how much opposition there is from some circles about this. You'd think it would make sense to have detailed background checks and so on, but then (in acordance with the culture!) let people have arms if they've proven that they're responsible citizens. It seems at least some of the mess in the US is caused by a huge amount of different and strange regulations.
Dirk diggler 8 | 3,852    :-(
18 Apr 2018  #758
Well ya because a lot of groups like nra dont want any restrictions on anything - bump stocks, autos, etc bc they answer to and are financed by gun manufacturers. Even the most liberal states and municipalities dont ban guns outright and most dem politicians arent calling for a full ban - some simply have resctritions on certain guns and magazine capacity or dont have open carry. Its only a few on the far left and the two stoneman students - one who couldn't even get into college and another gender bender calling for total bans - which not only will neber happen as rural gun owners will never give up their guns and neither will people living in inner cities regardless of whether their guns are legal or not.
Atch 17 | 2,588    
  19 Apr 2018  #759
Rofl atch first off Mormons and Amish dont even live in the bible belt.

I never said they did. You're speed reading again. I know quite well where the Mormons live and the Amish too, Pennsylvania isn't it? And I think everybody knows about Salt Lake City and Utah. And yes the Mormons are a cult but quite a rich and powerful one. They pretty much control an entire state of America. And it's a fact that in Bible Belt states, education is impacted by extreme forms of weird Christianity. Plenty of teachers in state schools there are already unofficially teaching Creationism alongside mainstream science but as I say, if they had their way.............

As for the KKK it makes no difference to an outsider like me what their politics were, I'm sure they were all nominally Christian.

@Mods, re going off topic, that ship sailed some time ago and it's not coming back to harbour any time soon as far as I can see. Maybe it's time to close the thread as it's run its course. Do a word search for Muslims, migrants, black, Latino, UK and America/USA. The thread hasn't been about carrying a concealed handgun in Poland since the first few posts.
Dirk diggler 8 | 3,852    :-(
  19 Apr 2018  #760
Atch youre the one who brought up.the topic of Mormons, fundamentalists, creationism, etc and labelling them as people.who just want their guns and God on the last page. Now youre saying bring it back on topic? Yes these people tend to exercise their 2nd amendment right more than others but they do not represent the majority of gun owners. Most legal gun owners are men who have a gun that sits around in case of emergency - namely self defense.

The Mormons most definetely do not control Utah. Neither is polygamy practiced by all Mormons - it is a small percentage that live outside the main community like the fundamentalist flds whuch is several thousand ppl at best.

And public schools do not teach creationism. A very limited amount of private schools, which can teach anything they want as tbey are private, teach these things. Plus they have to abide by a set curriculum if they wish to be accredited.

Most people discuss us gun laws as that is the center of the debate. The situation in Poland is simple - most people don't care for guns and although the amount of applications is increasing most polish gun owners dont carry a firearm. Hunting/sport is the most common reason why Poles get licenses. You canmot have a concealed permit unless u pass the self defense licensing and then in addition take the necessary steps for concealed carry.

When there is street violence in polamd it usually involves fists and at worst knives bats batons etc. Guns are rarely used. I can't think of a time an innocent person was accidently shot by a gang member looking for another target or had such bad aim that they missed and sbot other people jusg doesnt happen in poland.
Atch 17 | 2,588    
19 Apr 2018  #761
labelling them as people.who just want their guns

I never mentioned anything about guns. You're not paying attention - what's must have driven your teachers demented. You constantly speed read your way through material, don't listen properly to what's said and then comment, having got the wrong end of the stick.

Anyway.............I'm not asking for the thread to be brought back on topic, I'm saying that it veered off ages ago, long before my comments, which were actually in response to yet another one about Muslims and migrants, that time from Sig Sauer (but he's not nearly as bad as you, he's quite rational).

Like I said there is nothing of value left to discuss in this thread which pertains to the original topic.
Dirk diggler 8 | 3,852    :-(
24 Apr 2018  #762
Yes you didnt label them as people who just want their guns but you alluded to that by describing religious conservatives in the bible belt states and similar places It's whatever.. but ya ur right I mean the situation in poland is pretty simple and imo it works for the country.

In us and other places increasingly france uk germany etc gangbanging has become a religion now esp among young males brought up in bad areas. It wouldn't be such a big deal if innocent people did get hit. None of those places even compare to chicago though - 100k plus full members. Every chicago kid growing up in the city whether white black hispanic has friends in gangs, is in a gang him/herself, or at the very least goes to high school and lives around them. Atleast our gangs are equal opportunity - theres no race restrictions lol
johnny reb 16 | 3,225    
25 Apr 2018  #763
When gangs start organizing in Poland, and they will like every other country in the world, you will see an increase in gun crime.
The Polish people will have only one way to defend themselves from most of these crimes and that is with a firearm to protect themselves and their families.

It is just a matter of time. (Fight fire with fire)
So my conclusion of this thread is that while presently Poland may not need guns for self preservation they will in the near future and should be prepared..

That is why the gun laws in Poland should be reviewed now so when the time comes it will be a much easier transition for the brain washed people's mind set that have been conditioned to actually believe that guns kill people.

Guns as a tool are used for defense more then offense, a very handy tool to have when the bad guy has one and the police response time is ten to fifteen minutes away.

I see one county in Illinois has finally put it's foot down with the gun grabber authorities.
Amid political buzzwords of "sanctuary cities" and "gun bans," one Illinois county decided to wade into the fray by declaring itself a sanctuary for gun owners.

The Effingham County board voted this past week, 8-1, to order its employees not to enforce any laws that would "unconstitutionally restrict the Second Amendment" to the U.S. Constitution.

Poland may have to find a way to rebel in a similar manner.
The people posting in this thread that are pretending that Poland will continue to be crime free from guns when the immigrants, organized gangs and just gangbangers start moving in are living in a fantasy world of denial.

Times change but people don't.
Remember right here on the P.F. five years ago when the Brits use to laugh at how all the police in the U.S.A. carried guns........well guess what has happened in London in the last five years, they ain't laughing now are they.

Times change and they will for Poland too.
There, now you women can close this thread that makes you so uncomfortable because of the propaganda that you have been brainwashed with by the Progressive Libs.
Dirk diggler 8 | 3,852    :-(
  25 Apr 2018  #764
There are gangs in poland and have been since the 80s with hools even before that but they're not like gangs in the West. In Poland shooting someone is a last resort, not the first as in US and increasingly uk as they copy all our inner city nuances. That's the main difference. Even if say an opp walks into the wrong hood at worst hell get beat up or stabbed but he won't be shot. Polish guys in gangs or firms simply don't go for guns. Theyre not scared to fight and even catch an ass whooping. Even guys who control a blok wont walk around strapped they carry a knife. Ita a totally different culture. In wroclaw if there's a shooting its talked about for like a month. Here if there's a shooting it won't make the news unless a whole.crowd was shot uo
delphiandomine 86 | 16,949    
  25 Apr 2018  #765
Even guys who control a blok wont walk around strapped they carry a knife.

Even then, many of them won't carry a knife just to hang out in the neighbourhood (except in Kraków, idiots). As you say, it's a totally different culture, no-one is hanging around tooled up for the sake of it.
johnny reb 16 | 3,225    
26 Apr 2018  #766
around tooled up

In my day it was called "packin' heat". lol

they're not like gangs in the West

London 'use to' boast the same thing, remember ?
Dirk diggler 8 | 3,852    :-(
  26 Apr 2018  #767
Theres a new word like every few months lol. Last decade it was a gat, then a stick, now its a pole... Well london now has a lot of hoods with the muslim groups being the largest. Id say poles and eastern europeans are probably second. Some of our 1% clubs are represented in UK as well especially Chicago's Outlaws and theyre in poland too.

In most of the US you can get a cheap handgun like a hipoint for even $100 If its used and even less if the serial is filed or it has bodies on it. In europe its waaay more. In west europe even a converted bobby gun sells for $1k $2k. If anything id think the price of guns out there helps somewhat stop shootings bc most young bangers can't afford that and atleast by the time theyre a little older and can afford it theyre a little wiser

Uk thought they were soooo smart banning handguns yet since their murder rates have only gone up. The UK prison system is a joke too. Its more like a ghetto party than time. That's another reason why dudes who are out in the streets arent scared of being locked up

I think everyone should own a gun esp women. If you have a family, wife, have a lot of money, etc its a must imo esp if you live in a ****** like us or uk. You never know when you'll need it. My friend in Indiana just did 3 years for shooting 2 people who tried to rob and kidnap him. 2 shots - 1 hit a guy in the head and hes slumped and the other got hit in the chest. He wouldnt of gotten anytime if his gun was legal. Atleast hes alive though and that dude who tried to rob him definetely wont be trying to rob someone again.
delphiandomine 86 | 16,949    
  26 Apr 2018  #768
Uk thought they were soooo smart banning handguns yet since their murder rates have only gone up.

No, it hasn't. In fact, it's gone down.

Murders per million citizens in 1996 (last full year of gun ownership): 11.4
Murders per million citizens in 2015-2016 (the reporting period changed to cover April-March): 9.9.

So in terms of murders, the UK is a safer place without guns.
mafketis 16 | 6,334    
26 Apr 2018  #769
But havent' non-fatal violent attacks skyrocketed?
Dirk diggler 8 | 3,852    :-(
  26 Apr 2018  #770
No, it hasn't. In fact, it's gone down.

Numerous sources show otherwise and cite crime rates, including gun crimes, to be increasing since...

Ministers will also be concerned that the country is becoming increasingly violent in nature, with gun crime rising 23% to 6,375 offences

The ONS said overall crime recorded by the police rose by six per cent in the year to September, including a 27 per cent jump in violence against the person. It amounted to an extra 185,666 violent offences, bringing the annual total to more than 885,000 in England and Wales.

London's homicide rate overtakes NYC

This chart also shows that the gun ban made no difference as homicides remained at the same level and actually exceeded pre 96 levels a few times

See page 17

This shows that homicides actually went up after the gun ban only to return to roughly the same levels anyway...

Also - Gun crime in London increases by 42% (2017)

If banning guns, as UK did in 1996 really was supposed to reduce gun crime than no year after 1996 should have more gun crimes than that year. Yet that is not the case.

"To say it has fallen is smoke and mirrors. Frontline officers are under increasing pressure and dealing with larger caseloads than ever before. This worrying rise in crime will only add to this pressure." - UK cop general secretary
Joker 1 | 822    
  13 May 2018  #771
So in terms of murders, the UK is a safer place without guns.

Really? The religion of peace has just struck again in Paris. These claims of Europe being a safer place without guns is a total joke!

Your failed PC agenda has put all the citizens of Europe into jeopardy.
delphiandomine 86 | 16,949    
  13 May 2018  #772
These claims of Europe being a safer place without guns is a total joke!

The only joke is you, because if you actually knew a thing about Poland, you'd know that 5 injured and 1 dead is nothing compared to the death toll on Polish roads so far in May.

What keeps us safe is a strong immigration policy designed to keep gun lovers out of Europe, not guns themselves.
Tacitus 2 | 805    
13 May 2018  #773
You'll find maniacs in every country. The difference between the USA and Europe is, that we do not arm them. Gun laws do not prevent people from attacking others, but they reduce the potential damage done by the attacker Every knife attack in Europe would have been an attack carried out by a gun in the USA. Which is why the laws are working.
cms neuf - | 639    
  13 May 2018  #774
If yesterday was an average day in the US there would have been 30 gun deaths including plenty of innocent store owners, cab drivers, cops or unlucky bystanders. Worry about making your own streets safe first.
johnny reb 16 | 3,225    
13 May 2018  #775
Gun laws do not prevent people from attacking others, but they reduce the potential damage done by the attacker

Tell that to the family in Australia where guns are banned too.
Just last week 7 people, including 4 children, shot dead in Australia.
A mass murder in a country that has outlawed guns. Hmmm
Upon the police arrival, they discovered seven people dead at the scene: three adults and four children.
Two firearms were discovered at the scene, and the bodies appeared to have gunshot wounds.
Doesn't sound like "reduced potential damage" to me when everyone was dead.
TheOther 5 | 3,611    
13 May 2018  #776
A mass murder in a country that has outlawed guns. Hmmm

The first mass shooting since 1996. How many did we have in the US in 2018 alone? Hmmm.
Lyzko 17 | 5,321    
13 May 2018  #777
Johnny's dreamin' again, TheOther! One too many sudafeds in the morning:-)
Dirk diggler 8 | 3,852    :-(
13 May 2018  #778
Which is why the laws are working.

Than why has London had more murders than NYC this year?

knife attack

Makes no difference - London's murder rate is higher than NYC despite NYC people having both options

And people will still argue gun control brings the murder rate down yet London is a clear example where the opposite is true - along with numerous other countries that have strict gun laws yet have far higher murder rates than countries with lax gun laws and high rates of ownership.

It is the society and the people who determine whether a country has a high murder rate and lots of violence - not the gun laws. They make no difference as people will always find a way to murder others whether its a cultural enrichment truck or knife, or a throw away gangbanger's high point...
delphiandomine 86 | 16,949    
  13 May 2018  #779
Than why has London had more murders than NYC this year?

Not quite true. Interestingly, look at this -

And people will still argue gun control brings the murder rate down

It does. The data from London was based on a very narrow sample. If guns were legal in the UK, that murder rate would most definitely be considerably higher given the mentality in some areas towards life.

But in all fairness, you can't really compare the two. The USA has social problems that the UK (and Europe as a whole) doesn't have, and it's not fair to point solely at guns being the reason.
- this is quite an interesting way of looking at it, but why is Puerto Rico so violent?
Dirk diggler 8 | 3,852    :-(
  13 May 2018  #780
ut why is Puerto Rico so violent?

Because it is a violent society, yet it has arguably the strictest gun laws in the US... further showing that gun laws make little difference as people will always obtain guns one way or another if they really want to. Puetro Ricans were the ones driving up the murder rate in the 80s and 90s in Chicago - when there was a total ban on all guns yet there was a higher murder rate than there is now.

Not quite true.

Still more murders than NYC though. If gun laws are automatically supposed to lower the murder rate than as Tacitus said then there shouldn't of been a single month where murders in London, which has a total ban on guns with most cops not even being armed, exceeded the amount of murder in NYC especially considering their populations are pretty much equal.

There were 15 murders in London in February against 14 in New York, according to London's Metropolitan Police Service and the New York Police Department. For March, 22 murders were investigated in London, with 21 reports in New York. (Report is from April 3).

Still though that's nothing. I find it a bit amusing when Londoners (or even Trump for that matter) complain about how 'dangerous' their city has gotten and how the murder rate went way up. They need to come to Chicago or Baltimore or Newark for a bit. 40 people shot in 2 days - and the weekend isn't over. We have a saying here 'Sun's out, gun's out.' Last week when it was warmer there something like 80 people shot.

his is quite an interesting way of looking at it,

It's a bit innacurate though as it the suicide rate skews the statistics. No way is Greenland more violent than Jamaica or El Salvador. Neither is Hungary more violent than Syria.

The difference is London has fewer guns (although gun crimes are gradually increasing) as it is an island nation and therefore black market guns are far more expensive. If it was located on the EU mainland and had even more turd world migrants, like say Paris or Marseilles then it'd have way more violence and murders.

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