Weapons laws in Poland. Carrying a concealed handgun?

Except France has no "tons of shootings." And Mexico's war on drugs dwarves anything that happens in France.

nytimes.com/2016/06/14/upshot/compare-these-gun-death-rates-the-us-is-in-a-different-world.html


This is not true. Gun laws are tougher in the Czech Republic and Switzerland than in the USA. Just read the Wikipedia page here:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_laws_in_the_Czech_Republic#Categories_of_licenses

You have to get a license first in the Czech Republic, which takes some time. The same counts for Switzerland. The danger that an angry pupil gets a gun and can use it in his school is far smaller than in the USA.


Which is not true: government.se/articles/2017/02/facts-about-migration-and-crime-in-sweden/

They are certainly no war zones.


Because there have been so many massacres commited by guns and migrants compared to massacres commited by native people? Was the last school shooter a migrant?


This is a lie. Gun crime is almost non-existant in Japan: bbc.com/news/magazine-38365729

Even the Yakuza has trouble getting guns: atimes.com/article/japans-gun-control-laws-strict-yakuza-turn-toy-pistols/

Perhaps larger groups will still be able to get their hands on guns, but those groups are more vulnerable to get caught by police. Those "lone wolves" who plan such incidents on their own are the real danger, because they are more difficult to detect. But those people often lack the ressources to pay thousands of dollars for a gun on the black market.

Gun control works. Anything that limits the possibility of dangerous individuals getting guns works.

Americans might have resigned themselves to seeing mass shootings as a natural occurence, but thankfully people in Europe are thinking differently.

Umm of course migranrs commit more massacres than europe. The vast majority of massacres and attacks where a lot of people died are almost all committed by Muslims. Charlie hebdo, paris massacre, the numerous car rammings, explosions at airport in belgium and countless more all committed by muslims.

And yes there are tons of shootings in france by european standards. Even journeyman did an episode on gun crime in marseilles. The documentary explains that gangs have no problems obtainjing guns and arent afraid to use them.

If gun control works and prevents dangerous peiple from getting guns why are there so many grenade attacks in sweden? Why were terrorists able to kill 100 people with aks if gun control works so well? Why was charlie hebdo shot? Most of the gun deaths come not from legally acquired weapons but illegal ones whether its europe or usa.

Western europeans have instead resigned themselves to having thousands of european women groped/raped, grenades thrown at their home, car rammings killing dozens, knife attacks for buying beer.. oh what a great trade off, except gun control doesnt work in europe either thats why 5 people suffered gunshot wounds in paris recently, thats why 100 others were shot in paris, thats why charlie hebdo and staff were all shot.. yup gun control really stopped people in europe from carrying out mass shootings

Amd a gun doesnt cost thousands of dollars on the black market. A handgun with bodies on it costs $50 or is even given away for free. Even bramd new guns cost a few hundred. Theres no handguns that sell for thousands of dollars as you claim. 1k is considered a lot of money for a pistol. A hipoint costs only $200 brand new.

You seem to think that anyone can just go to walmart and pick up an ar15. Thats not the case. You have to wait at least 3 days before you take your gun home while checks are being performed. The system isnt that much different from switzerland or czechy in principle meaning that there is a process in place to weed out criminals, people with psychiatric problems, etc. Granted yes they arent as strict. The vast majority of legally purchased guns are not used to break the law and kill innocent people. However, illegally acquires guns account for nearly all shootings not just in chicago but usa as a whole. Even during the columbine shooting the guns were purchased illegally so gun control wouldnt of stopped the massacre. The media conveniently ignores that. If gun control was supposed to stop shootings then you wouldnt of had record levels in the 90s when there was a total ban on handguns in chicago. I guess the gangs didnt get the memo. In fact, gun crimes and murders went down once the handgun ban was removed and concealed carry was allowrd. But media wont report on that of course

If the US banned guns completely it wouldnt have any noticeable impact on total gun crimes. The others who are easily distracted and swayed by the leftist media to ignore the facts and statistics keep talking about this story because it was a white kid with an ar15. Yet wvery single week that many people die in chicago. People are focusing on just 1 shooting when there were 3500 shootings last yesr in chicago alone. But since both perpetrator and victim are almost always black (about 10 15% hispanics and 5 10% whites) this wont be aired on CNN since it shows gun control hasnt worked. If it did, there wouldnt be thousands of shootings every year.

A question Dirk are hollow points legal in Poland? I couldnt find it.I have cpl friends who only use hollow points in Poland but even they dont know the answer.And its available everywhere openly also.Dont seem right to me?

I dont know. I dont recall reading any specifics about ammunition restrictions when i read the polish gun laws though. Concealed carry is kind of tricky but if you have certain types of cash business like currency exchange or jeweler or something like that it helps a lot. Or knowing a cop...

We are talking about mass shootings here. The fact that you always mention the same cases where migrants were responsible is speaking volumes.


Which is not true. Breivik was a native citizen. We had 3 mass shooting incidents in Germany in this century, in all cases native Germans were responsible.


Perhaps in the USA, but it is far more expensive to get a gun in most countries with strict gun control laws.


Because naturally a larger group will have it easier to acquire weapons than one individual.

The better question is why do we count the length between mass shooting incidents in years in European countriesm while often only weeks pass between such incidents in the USA. Why did the number of such incidents immideately drop (as in completely disappear) after Australia introduced gun control?

France suffered 3 mass shooting incidents this century (those which you like to point out). How many mass shooting incidents have happened in the USA since 2015?

What a real disckhead you are.

Usa also has 330 million people, france has a fifth of that. Its more apt to compare apples to apples, hence france, Germany, etc to other european countries which are more similar in size, culture, politics, population, etc.

And no im not talking about mass shootings but rather all shootings. Is an event where 10 people killed at once better or worse than 10 events where one person was killed in each? If youre going to look at gun crimes you dont single out only mass shootings or only gang related or only shootings committed by legal/illegally acquired guns. But even if we look at only mass shootings, well then clearly frances gun control failed on numerous occasions. Mass shootings are only discussed because theyre high profile but the fact is far more people die in shootings by 1 individual or a group/gang. France may not have mass shootings, but they sure as hell have a lot of gun violence especially marseilles which has a far higher body count than the paris attacks.

You said gun control works and prevents mass shootings, and stricter gun laws result in less shootings. I pointed that is not true and cited famous shootings where gun control failed. If gun control.worked as you say it does, such shootings should've been prevented. I also use the examples of czechy finland and switzerland bc by european standards their laws are lax. Yet all three countries have lower rates of gun crimes than countries with stricter policies like germany, france, etc.

Journeyman doc on how well gun control works in Marseilles
youtu.be/_skb_Nla2lQ

Actually, if were looking solely at europe the statistics show countries with more lax laws and higher rates of legal gun ownership like czechy and switzerland have less shootings than countries with very strict laws amd low rates of gun ownership like sweden germany and france.

Europeans may not count weeks between mass shootings, but they count the hours before another european woman is groped/raped. Sweden has 7k reported rapes - almost one every hour.

The french on the other hand dont need to count any time frame between shootings riots etc - the country has a seemingly permanent state of emergency due to all the crime, shootings, rapes, arsons, rioting, and all the other crap going on in the french no go zones aka formally SEZs...

And brevik is perhaps the only european who committed a mass shooting in recent times. There was also one or two truck rammings commited as a revenge act. The fact is the vast majority, nearly all recent european mass shootings, truck rammings, stabbings, rapes and gropes, etc are committed by muslims and migrants - not native europeans. For every 1 european that causes a mass shooting theres 5 muslim ones despite they being the minority (for now). For every native swede that rapes a woman theres 99 migrants/muslims. For every 1 truck ramming theres 10 by muslims. Also, whens the last time a christian european stabbed a person for eating meat on fridays during lent? Well muslims have stabbed people for buying beer during ramadumb. Anyone can see that migrants are responsible for most of the violent crimes and rapes and even university studies, numerous media outlets and even police statistics back that up

There have been 3 mass shooting incidents in France in this century according to Wikipedia.

If gun restrictions did nothing but decrease the number of mass shooting incidents, it would still be worth it.


Everything in this statement is wrong.

Switzerland has more gun crimes than France and Germany and Sweden. Czech Republic has more gun crimes than Germany and Sweden.

Both France and Germany had 3 mass shooting incidents in the last 20 years, yet each country has several more times (at least 6 or more) people than e.g. Switzerland (8,5m) and Czech Republic (10,6m).

Switzerland and the Czech Republic had one notable massacre:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zug_massacre

Uherský Brod shooting

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Of course statistics are difficult to apply in such small numbers, but claiming that those countries are less likely to have gun violence or mass shootings is wrong.

This proves czechy has lower ratws of homicide than france:
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

Granted this is from 2012 so due to the flood of migrants its likely gotten worse.

Norway also has lax laws by eu standards and very high ownership rates yet lower homicide rates than australia.

The claim that australia hasn't had a mass shooting since 1996 is false. That can quickly be disproven as there were numerous massacres since then including ones in which guns were used

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_Australia

This only includes massacres - not all shootings. Clearly gun control didnt stop shootings as they continue. Plus, terrorists like the muslim convert have switched to cars. Perhaps we should ban cars over a certain size and limit the type of car a person can buy? Afterall, why would you need an suv unless you plan on running people over? Thats the same line of logic the left uses with ar15s, which are semi auto only for civilians unless you have spent years and thousands of dollars to obtain one of the very few auto weapons permit from the ATF. But no liberals will point out that autos and similar mods are highly illegal.

As of 2013, there were roughly 20 guns for every 100 australians. This puts it in a category similar to canada, croatia, austria, germany, etc. They all have roughly the same ownership rates and similar laws then australia and yet country has varying homicide rates. If gun ownership and gun control directly corellated to homicide rates then all these countries should have the same homicide rates, yet they do not. In fact, countries like italy netherlands with low ownership and strict laws have higher homicide rates than australia, croatia, germany, etc.

Meanwhile brazil and columbia have 8 guns per person yet has a far far higher murder rate and just as strict gun lawd. So theres no correlation between rates of gun ownership or gun control and murder rates. Each country has its own unique situation. Gun control may have worked in australia as it is an island, but it definetely doesnt work in france, brazil, etc.

Youd put an armed guard in a bank, even fancy hotels and airplanes. Why wouldnt they do the same for schools everywhere? We had an armed guard in my high school why the guard didnt have a gun and had to use his body as a shield instead of being able to defend himself and the students is beyond me. If a security guard cant provide security than what good are they?

And both are higher than in Germany according to this list:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_firearm-related_death_rate

It is also quite interesting that Germany and France have more guns per citizen than Switzerland and Czech Republic.


You should have read the list carefully like I did before you posted this here.

No mass shooting happened after Fort Arthur (mass shooting is usually described with 4 or more deaths). The only exception was the Hunt family murdersand as the name implies, that was a family tragedy. We are talking about cases when a deranged individual tries to kill a large number of people in a public space in a short amount of time.

Again, we are talking about mass shootings here.


Except cars are not primarily made for killing. AR15 are made for killing. Banning cars would drasitically inconvenience everybody, banning AR15s would only inconveniece a few and to a much smaller degree.

Do you really find it normal that school children in the USA have to learn how to behave in case a gunman storms the school? You keep on rambling about terror incidents in Europe when people are getting gunned down at a regular base in the USA. How many mass shootings have to happen until people like you change their mind?

Another excellent video that debunks those arguments against gun control (and it is even meant to be entertaining).

youtu.be/0rR9IaXH1M0?t=2m50s

It seems to me that the advocates of gun ownership are basically arguing that the way to make a violent, lawless society more law abiding and peaceful is to let everybody own a gun.................strange logic.

As for the idea of having to be protected against potential 'tyranny' by your own government, HELLO - ballot box. Use it wisely and you won't have that problem.

That's how the Wild West was won so it worked for them.
You have just been condition Atch that guns are a bad thing when it is a bad person behind a gun that makes them bad.


I hope you are not trying to be serious Atch.
If voting made a difference they wouldn't let us vote.

No. This is one of those big cultural gulfs between the USA and Europe. USAns don't regard their society as violent or lawless*. And the founding documents make it very difficult for the government to enact the kind of de-arming program against the citizenry that Europeans like.

And past experience (with legislative mission creep) makes a significant minority (maybe a small majority) unwilling to countenance any restriction.

Given the size of the population gun violence rates are pretty low and factor out suicides and gang on gang violence (leaving in collateral damage) they're very low. There's simply no political will in the US to reduce rates even further... it's too risky.

And... even urban liberals don't much care about most gun owners. They're worried about urban gang (almost enitrely NAM) violence but they can't say "disarm the black and hispanic gangs (that are actually a danger to the citizenry)" so they jump on the peaceable responsible gun owners (a safe political target).

I'm willing to relocate if somebody will nominate me for the American presidency - it's about time you had another Irish one :D I'll sort out your gun laws for you :D

They don't need sorting.
The gun grabbers have one goal in mind and that is to disarm America which includes the law abiding citizens which will never happen in our life time so why even go there.

Why not face the real problem which is mental illness and reopen the mental hospitals and put the mentally ill back in them where they are not a threat to themselves or society.

That's how you fix the problem.

And get yourself impeached for violating the constitution you swore to uphold during your inauguration? Americans think of the constitution almost like a holy text (unlike any country in europe where constitutions come and go and don't engender much loyalty)

The constitution can be changed (and has been 25 times or so) but there's no political support for a repealing the 2nd amendment so a president actually can't do much (Obama couldn't...)

Here's a staggering fact regarding gun deaths in the USA:

The death toll between 1968 and 2011 eclipses all wars ever fought by the country. According to research by Politifact, there were about 1.4 million firearm deaths in that period, compared with 1.2 million US deaths in every conflict from the War of Independence to Iraq.

I really don't know how anybody can call that normal or acceptable.

Over half of those will be suicides, and a large percentage of the rest are gang members. Get me figures that control for those two factors and we'll talk.

Or we won't, you'll never convince a majority of the American electorate that private citizens owning firearms is a serious problem.

Fair point. However, as an Irish person, I cannot get my head around the idea that it's a recurring thing in America, that school kids are slaughtered by maniac gunmen. We have virtually no gun ownership in Ireland and no such mass murders. Surely anybody can see that there's a connection. Also one really needs to start asking questions about a society that produces such angry, alienated individuals. America needsto stop congratulating itself for being 'awesome' and start reflecting on that fact that it's a huge failure as a nation in many respects.

That's the real problem. I've never owned a gun and never wanted one, but I grew up with guns all over the place (big gun cabinet in the living room) and there was no gun crime or accidents.

It's not the guns, it's the people. Grabbing guns doesn't get to the root of the problem which is a lot of work. One problem with the Parkland case was supposedly that the US schools are afraid of disparate impact charges (look up disparate impact, it's the stupidest idea ever!) and so they hushed up how broken and dangerous Cruz (hispanic name!) might be...

And I'll bet that your family never needed to use those guns to defend themselves from criminals or the government.........

No, but..... one reason they were there was because it was kind of possible for a while (my father had made some very scary local enemies and there was a touch of intimidation here or there...) but they were mostly for recreation.

And a cousin in the countryside (way out in the boonies) did use a rifle once to make sure some unsavory characters who drove up in the middle of the night were. not. welcome. and best move on now. He mostly used his guns for hunting though (wild turkey and deer mostly and yes, it got et up.)

But would the enemies have been so scary if guns weren't freely available in the first place?? There is a chicken and egg element there. I understand about people in remote countryside areas being vulnerable but again, if guns weren't so easily available, unwelcome visitors would be less likely to have them and you could probably deal with such people using a few well trained attack dogs.

I certainly know that Irish farmers have used dogs very effectively. I know a farmer who had a German Shepherd which successfully held an intruder until the police arrived. He just pinned him against the wall and kept him there. I also knew a guy who managed a betting shop in a very rough part of Dublin, where being robbed was quite a possibility and he had, rather than a gun under the counter, a German Shepherd under the counter, literally!

Maybe not, but then you have to go back in time 100 years or so to make sure they were never necessary.... and assume there would be no black market in guns... both of which ideas seem a bit far fetched.

Using guns to protect your family is a rather questionable anyway. If you are a responsible gun owner, you'll have your gun safely locked away where your children won't find them. But then it will be difficult to reach them in time.

I mean when I read statistics like this I am very happy that gun owners in Germany are legally obligated to have their guns locked away at home.

verywellfamily.com/gun-and-shooting-accidents-2634213

No, you make sure your children are properly educated about them, locking them away just creates mystique and makes kids want to find and play with them.


What a timid approach to life and its dangers...

Mass shootings account for a very small percentage of total homicides in usa and to an extent europe asia etc. The msm only focus on mass shootings bc it tends to have two things liberals hate most - white guys and ar15s. Thats the only reason. They dgaf about the kids. Not a whole hour after the shooting was over already news outlets, left and right, were talking about gun control. Zero respect for a grieving family and students. Theyre just pawns for msms - todays top story.

They cry about 17 high school kids shot yet that is a weekly occurrence in chicago. But of course doing somethijg about black teens hanging out on the corner all day and criticizing them wouldnt be pc, so they ignore it despite a murder taking place evrry 15 mins, a shooting every 2 mins. You think gun control is going to stop them? Ha! Thats already been tried in the 90s when there were even more murders. Atleast now these black kids are scared to rob commuters and car jack with the same frequency as in the 90s and 00s because they know more and more law abiding people carry guns now. And yes most of these goons are kids as gangs purposely use kids to carry out hits as theyll go to juvie for a few years not 20 years in the state penn. Pfft 17 kids that sh1t is everyday here but no crocidile tears from media about that. Liberals cant criticise blacks whether they be obama or a kid on the corner. But wheb a cop shoots a black kid after he tried to run the cop over with a stolen jaguar or a white kid shoots a place up with an ar15 oh all hell breaks loose.

Presumably if you want a gun for self-defence you would want to keep one in the bedroom within easy reach in case of a night time intruder. Now Maf, would you leave a loaded handgun within reach of your bed if you had a two year old in the house? Ok, you can keep it in a locked drawer of your nightstand but then you have to remember to keep locking and unlocking the drawer each night and morning. It can easily be overlooked. A toddler can't be educated about gun safety.

there is also a jewish connection more often than not but no one wants to notice that particular aspect....