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Poland's Temporary residence card after marriage; I entered Europe without visa, the officials are stalking me


kash 2 | 14
24 May 2015 #1
Hi all respected members..
I want to ask procedure after marriage submitting documents in foreign office.my wife is polish and she is pregnant 4th month we married in January and submitted my documents in march and end of march two persons came in our house for interview and they asked me all because i entered in Europe without visa as a refugee now i received letter after two months from office they gave us one more interview date 9june we have to go in office..

My question is it normal?what they want to ask from us now?what they will do next?i mean they would give me permit or not??

Regards
Gosc123456
24 May 2015 #2
@Kash! What do you expect us to tell you?????? Your case is very particular and nobody in PF knows your file in detail. Also, what matters is where you come from.

The only advice I can give you: ask a lawyer (specialized in immigration matters) or wait until June 9 and you'll find out what they want.
Polsyr 6 | 769
24 May 2015 #3
is it normal?

To answer you better, I need to know the following:
1. Where did you get married, and have you completed the registration of your marriage in Poland and received a Polish marriage certificate?
2. Have you applied for refugee status or asylum in Poland or any other country? If yes, when did you apply, in what country, and is your application still under process or have you received a decision? If you have a decision, what was that decision?

3. What is your nationality?
4. How did you enter Europe and when did you enter Europe?

Without knowing answers to my above questions, in general, yes it is normal but not common. They do it because you got married rather recently, and they need to make sure it is a real marriage and not just a marriage of convenience, and the risk of it being a marriage of convenience is somewhat further highlighted by your status in Europe.

You need to know that if they approve your residence permit as a family member of Polish citizen, that will automatically void your asylum status if already granted, and if not already granted they will instruct you to withdraw your application for asylum before a residence permit can actually be issued. If you have a negative decision on asylum, for sure they will perform as many checks as possible to satisfy that your marriage is not a marriage of convenience.
OP kash 2 | 14
24 May 2015 #4
I got married in Poland and received certificate in January.
I was applied asylum 2012 in Germany and 2013 i got negative from asylum.
My name is akash I am from India.
I entered in Europe illegally without visa via Turkey Greece then by ship Italia then Germany in 2012.
My lawyer also don't know and I couldn't found a special immigration lawyer in Opole.
Bieganski 17 | 896
24 May 2015 #5
Why doesn't the OP just admit to being an unskilled but opportunistic economic migrant who has a complete disregard for the laws in other countries?

The OP spins a tale right here on PF chock-full of contradictions and yet he is perplexed as to why Polish officials would want to interview him.

It really is no wonder after reading the OP's posts why no one in his homeland would give him a job.
Polsyr 6 | 769
24 May 2015 #6
I entered in Europe illegally

Your application for residence permit as the spouse of a Polish citizen cannot be rejected solely for being in Poland illegally.

Four more important questions:

1. On what basis did you apply for asylum in Germany? (for example, are you from Kashmir and running away from fighting or...?) Please give as much details as possible.

2. Why was your application for asylum rejected in Germany? This is important because, for example, of several possibilities, if the reason for rejection is "applicant provided false statements" then your application in Poland is likely to face increased scrutiny.

3. What happened after your application was rejected in Germany, did you appeal against the decision, were you told you must leave and failed to leave, or were you told to apply instead for a temporary residence permit, etc? It is important because being instructed to leave and failing to leave or take further legal action moves you from being an illegal resident to an illegal resident who failed to obey a court order. This can be problematic in Poland.

4. Have you been charged or convicted of any crime since you entered Europe in 2012?
OP kash 2 | 14
24 May 2015 #7
I applied asylum basis of religious threats in Punjab India i am not from Kashmir.
I don't know why Germany rejected my application but they gave me a document and they said i can live and work but i can't go any other country.

I was not in any crime my history is clean.
My wife was also before in Germany but her family is in Poland then we decided to live here thats why we came here got married and now she is pregnant from 4 months.
Polsyr 6 | 769
24 May 2015 #8
they gave me a document and they said i can live and work but i can't go any other country.

Any chance you can give me a better idea about the content of this document, especially issue and expiry date if any. It sounds like instead of recognizing you as an asylum seeker, they decided to allow you to stay on the basis of tolerated stay or something similar to that.

That should not be a hurdle in the way of your residence permit in Poland, but like I said before, they are being "extra careful" because your history is somewhat complex.

I am aware of a couple in Poznan that was interviewed twice also, once at home and once at the office. He is from Poland and she is from Philippines. She entered Poland legally and did everything "by the book" but still their procedure dragged on for about 6 months. The only common factor between your case and their case is that they also got married shortly before applying for the permit (about 2 months).

One small advice, when you go for the interview next month, take with you a doctor's note confirming your wife's pregnancy. A child (or potential child) being in the picture tends to smooth things considerably.

On a different subject, I am very curious about your life in Opole.
OP kash 2 | 14
24 May 2015 #9
I gave there her pregnancy book when i submitted my application and they demand me now also bring the book on 9june.
But i am worried because of my wife she always tired and sick during pregnancy she can't go too many times for interviews..
I hope this will be our last interview then give decision.
Thank you very much you are a very nice advisor if you have any other advice please give me.
Polsyr 6 | 769
24 May 2015 #10
All I can say is: explain (politely and humbly) during the next interview that your wife's health is shaky and the length of the process and sense of doubt is making her stressed and nervous. Make sure you have a good translator with you if you don't speak fluent Polish. Good luck and good health to you, your wife and future child.
Gosc123456
25 May 2015 #11
@Polsyr: I do not believe the woman's health shall be taken into consideration in this matter. The person's file shall be examined only based upon his violating or not the EU laws. Should the wife be sick, they'll just say that doctors can help her. Being a little bit sick, having nausea when pregnant, especially at the begining of pregnancy is nothing special so no valid ground to have the Polish authorities change their minds or speed up the file.

Get back to earth!
Polsyr 6 | 769
25 May 2015 #12
The person's file shall be examined only based upon his violating or not the EU laws.

Wrong.

There are legal provisions that allow people who have broken certain laws (including people who have been charged and convicted of criminal offenses and even served jail time in EU up to a certain limit) to obtain residence permits for a number of different reasons.

For example, in Poland, being in Poland illegally is not solely a reason to reject a residence permit for a family member of a Polish citizen - this is what the law says, not something subject to what you or I think shall be basis of examination.

I do not believe the woman's health shall be taken into consideration in this matter

Also wrong.

For example, in Poland, "other compelling reasons" shall be taken into consideration when examining someone's application, and in this case, he has a particularly strong compelling reason which is a Polish citizen that is dependant on him to provide care due to health conditions. Several Ukrainians have residence permits in Poland exclusively for that very reason.

Finally, EU law guarantees the right of EU citizens to live with their families (and by definition in each and every single EU country that includes the legally wedded spouse, and in some countries a civil partner as well).

Pretty much the only reasons an application can be rejected even on appeal are:
1. Person seen is a potential risk (usually terrorism links, organized crime links or subject to EU sanctions). This CANNOT be argued against.
2. Person has served a long jail term for a crime committed in EU (usually longer than 2 years). This can be argued against.
3. The marriage is proven to be a marriage of convenience. And if there is a child, this possibility is automatically eliminated - by law. This can also be argued against.

4. Person has been ordered to leave EU and failed to comply or legally appeal against such orders. This can also be argued against.
Gosc123456
25 May 2015 #13
@Polsyr: you have just copied-pasted some theory. You don' know anything about the guy's file. As to heatlh problem, there are problems and problems. Feeling sick at beginning of a pregnancy is absolutely normal so I doubt that the Polish authorities can buy this. If the spouse is really sick, like having cancer, for instance, this is a different matter.

Why don't tell the guy to see a lawyer who will - based upon his file- advise? You don't know about the guy's real situation so how the h...ll can you advise him?

You don't know the whole story...
Polsyr 6 | 769
25 May 2015 #14
you have just copied-pasted some theory.

The man asked and I answered in light of the info available. You on the other hand are simply trolling.
OP kash 2 | 14
25 May 2015 #15
Gosc!!!
You just need to thinking positive..

Polsyr!!
Thanks again for your positive and reallity basis advice.
Gosc123456
26 May 2015 #16
@Kash: it is not a matter of being positive or not, it is a matter of law. Polsyr - who has NOT seen your file - just wrote what you want to read and sorry, this is no help. If you have a legal problem, you need see a lawyer. Your situation is very complex and that's why I have advized you to consult a lawyer.

Of course, I wish you the best but since you have committed law violations, the Polish (and other) authorities have the right to decide based upon the studying in details of your situation and no one in a non specialized forum can tell you about it. Polsyr wants to be "nice" but I don't believe it's "nice" to comment upon something s/he does not know (s/he knows nothing more than the lttle info you gave). Without the whole picture, it is impossible to "advise".

Believe me, instead of trying to get what you want to read in some kind of forum (mostly made up of people not living in Poland and/or ESL teachers), do ask a lawyer so you'll know what to expect on June 9 and you won't be too much destabilized. Do rely on lawyers not on "random clowns" as DominicB says!

Good luck though!
OP kash 2 | 14
26 May 2015 #17
Ok could you please refer me a special professional immigration lawyer in Opole I couldn't found a good relevant lawyer.
When i submitted my application then i went to lawyer office and i asked her could you do this all she said yes no problem but just get money and help my wife for filling the application it was a first this kind of case for her.

I need a professional lawyer who charge money but do everything not asking to me i am jobless and can't pay too many lawyers.
Gosc123456
26 May 2015 #18
@Kash: I am not in Opole, don't know anybody there so I cannot help you get a lawyer. The only way is to ask around but since you case may be very complex, you need a specialized lawyer. You may get list of lawyers from court house but I doubt that you'll have a lawyer specialized in immigration cases over there. A very good lawyer might do. Netherless, you'll have to pay (and probably a good sum). There are "free" legal consultations once in a while at court houses but 1. long waiting lists and 2. such lawyers won't know about your case.

You say you are jobless, so how do you live?

As you now understand, Europe is not a rose garden ;)

Sorry, your case is very serious and not a "laughing' matter so please act asap and stop wasting your time on non specialized fora!

@Kash: you can understand that your case is very complex and thus 99% of lawyers in Poland won't know what to do. There may be immigration lawyers in fancy (international) legal firms in Warsaw but of course their fees cost an arm and a leg...

@Kash: maybe send your whole file to a few big international legal firms (you'll find their contacts on the net) and maybe one of them shall accept to take care of your case pro bono (= you won't pay). You need a good lawyer. So instead of wasting your time reading and listening to "advice" from people on the net who don't know, scan your file and mail it asap (be aware that 4.06 is a day off in Poland and most offices shall be closed on 5.06). You don't have time to waste.

PS: I mean legal firms in ... Warsaw (of course)
OP kash 2 | 14
1 Nov 2015 #19
Hi respected member of polish forum..
As u know about my previous status now i need your help again.
I didn't got any documents from poland because they every two months send me a letter and saying which status u have in germany i told them before i was a asylum seeker in germany and she asked me in foreign office whats meaning of asylum seeker i dont understand how she sit in her seat to handle foreingners when she dont know..

Any ways i am completely mad from poland how they treat me i said there my wife is 8months pragnent plz give permission for work but i had not any documents from poland neither any permission for work because of money problem i came back to germany two weeks before my baby born and now i want to apply in germany for temporary residence behalf of marriage and baby.

Now my important question is how i could close my case/application for temporary residence in poland because till now thats in underprocess.
Please help me and reply me quickly because i have fear because of this application in poland germany can also make problems..
Polsyr 6 | 769
2 Nov 2015 #20
Kash,

Something about your story doesn't add up; meaning there is something you are not telling us.

When you went for interview, did you show them the document you received from Germany together with a translated copy (by sworn translator)? Last time I asked you some questions about this document which you didn't answer.

Did you go with a Polish speaking person to interpret?

Is your application missing any documents or information?

Are you currently in possession of a valid passport?

When they sent you the letter(s), did you respond?

What did you apply for exactly? For temp res permit, they don't usually ask (or care) what is/was your status in another country (Germany), unless they suspect your current stay is illegal and you didn't indicate that in your application (intentionally or otherwise).

You have to keep one thing and only one thing in mind, the moment you provide false info (intentionally or otherwise) your application is in jeopardy.

At this point in time I strongly suggest you contact an organization that provides legal support to foreigners. There are several in Poland (several that do it for free also). Almost all have English speaking staff. Search for them online.
OP kash 2 | 14
2 Nov 2015 #21
Polsyr,

Thanks for your respond,when i had interview i gave my documents from germany that documents(duldung) are asylum seeker which germany rejected my application but they said i can live here.

Two time police came in our poland house for interview everytime when i receive brief i quickly gave respond.
Every documents i gave them what they wanted my passport etc
My wife is polish she translated every time,
We lived near opole I didn't found any good legal firm with whom i talked they were also like a firm but they just got money.

Could you please now tell me what should i do we are in germany now and i want to close my application in poland?
Polsyr 6 | 769
2 Nov 2015 #22
Kash,

Since you have had an interview and a house visit, it means your application has been "entered into the system". This means that when you applied they either stamped your passport or gave you a letter confirming submission of your application. Either stamp or letter legalizes your stay in Poland until a decision is issued. So on the one hand, you were not obligated to leave Poland. On the other hand, you are not obligated to stay in Poland until a decision is made.

There is no specific mechanism to cancel an application as far as I know. All you can do is wait for a decision, or maybe send them a notarized letter, written in Polish, via registered post, saying that the reason for filing your application (your intention to live in Poland with your family) is no longer applicable since you and your family have decided to live in another country. If they take your letter into consideration, I assume that all that will happen is that your application will be left with no further action taken. They won't refund the fees and they won't return submitted documents.
OP kash 2 | 14
2 Nov 2015 #23
Polsyr,

They didn't make any stamp on my passport i asked from there but she said untill decision can't make stamp.
When i submitted my application in foreign office they sended one letter after some days i am legal in poland till make final decision.
I didn't completely understand what u said.should i leave all in poland and submit my application in germany on behalf of baby?because i am in germany right now.

Or should i go back in poland with my wife and son and tell them my baby born he have german birth cirtificate.
But i think they will make more problem because with out documents I crossed the border
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
2 Nov 2015 #24
There is no specific mechanism to cancel an application as far as I know.

I seem to remember that you can cancel the application by simply writing them a letter saying that you wish to do so. I don't remember where I've seen it, but it rings a bell from my application for permanent residency. I've got a suspicion that it was in one of the information booklets that I was reading when bored and waiting to pick up the card.
Polsyr 6 | 769
2 Nov 2015 #25
booklets

I got the "instructions for foreigners" booklet somewhere, but it is very old. Let me have a look, if I find something I will write here.

They didn't make any stamp on my passport i asked from there but she said untill decision can't make stamp.
When i submitted my application in foreign office they sended one letter after some days i am legal in poland till make final decision.

Something is illogical about that. If no stamp then they must have handed you a letter on the spot stating that you have applied, unless your application was incomplete from the start.

application in germany on behalf of baby?

Your baby is a Polish citizen since the mother is Polish.

go back in poland with my wife and son and tell them my baby born he have german birth cirtificate

You need to register your baby in Poland and obtain a Polish birth certificate and a PESEL number as soon as possible.

leave all in poland

go back in poland

I am not telling you what to do. You are confused and your confusion is apparent in your communication style.

with out documents I crossed the border

That has the potential to complicate future paperwork in both countries.

But i think

Last and final advice from me: please stop "thinking" and consult an organization that assists foreigners. At this point in time you may NEED their services.
OP kash 2 | 14
2 Nov 2015 #26
I want to have any lawyer firm but I can't trust them because 3times i paid if u know any trusted law firm in wroclaw or opole then tell me please.

I got termin from polish embassy in munich for passport of my son.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
2 Nov 2015 #27
Something is illogical about that. If no stamp then they must have handed you a letter on the spot stating that you have applied, unless your application was incomplete from the start.

I think something changed in the last few years, because (where's Harry when you need him) I seem to remember the law requiring you to apply at least 45 days in advance, because they had a duty to issue the decision within 45 days. I think - also - if he wasn't legally in Poland, then they might have refused to grant him permission to stay on that grounds. I have a faint recollection that if you're not legally in Poland, you can't actually apply for temporary residency - you need to apply for some "tolerated stay" permit from the Straz Graniczna instead.
Polsyr 6 | 769
2 Nov 2015 #28
if you're not legally in Poland, you can't actually apply for temporary residency

Correct, except in the case of spouses of Polish citizens (among other exceptions).
Gaucho 2 | 49
3 Nov 2015 #29
about the interview, they ask that from everyboday. I had everything in order and still got the "what your spouse had for breakfast this morning?" "When was the last time you gave flowers to her?" most married couples wouldn't pass it :P
OP kash 2 | 14
3 Nov 2015 #30
Gaucho,

I know they also asked me so questions but our interview was good all answers were same.
But they didn't said in brief my interview was not good they always writing me about germany which documents you have from germany give us more why you was in germany all problems they make about germany they said why you came in poland why not in germany or any other good land.

Last time i said if you have system then please check that i was not criminal in germany and you can ask from my embassy in warsaw my passport is origional or not.i cant all explain all but all letters they wrote like a children dummm questions every time.

They send me letter in 3july you have interview 14june :p
We called in office then she said its my mistake 14 july is your interview.
They only wanted to makes problem then we leave by self poland.


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