The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland?

That's what NATO is for! NATO!!! Yahoo! Number, fkucing one, baby!

But again the US and Poland are two very different societies and thinking the gun policy of one would work in another is just..... dumb. I look for other words and and stall out.... it's just dumb.

When? On pretty well every page in this thread.


If anything, the situation in Poland is the norm for developed countries; certainly not any 'extreme'.

Those advocating for reducing gun controls are suggesting an extreme.


They can, with strict controls. Would you want to see those controls relaxed?

And if Putin brings his tanks and nukes, an accounts clerk or computer programmer with a gun will not make the slightest difference.

And the Polish military is not 'pretty small' now, is it. Plus of course the elephant in the room being that Poland is a full member of NATO.

Yes it's common sense, also back in the day (50s and 60s) it was common for people to have a gun in the house just in case. They did just not let the authorities know, i bet some of those guns are still around, passed from father to son.


Then why did Ukraine give out 100k+ firearms to every tom, dick and harry at the start of the invasion? if it comes down to being a partisan in occupied teritory than yes every gun makes a big difference.

The clue is in the word "invasion".


It doesn't. If r*SSia were ever to push westward breaching the border of any NATO member state, domestically owned guns would be an irrelevance.

but wouldnt you want to take a pot shot at a ruski from your apartment before the nato calvarly arrived?

@mafketis
NATO response time to a direct attack on Poland would not keep Russia from destroying a whole lot of places and killing a lot of people. While it would be quick, there would be a lot of damage and death. NATO is defensive after all and a threat of attack is not enough to trigger anything other than a higher level of readiness under Article 4. Response time for full NATO involvement would be at least a few weeks. Example September 12, 2001 when Article 5 was invoked.

@jon357
Please point out to me where I suggested anything close to gun laws of the USA. You cant. And because you are on the road so much it would be impossible for you to participate in conversations with people actually interested in gun ownership or self defense because you are not at the ranges or at the military surplus shops or the gun stores around the country.

Its funny how people opinions change when they are actually attacked. But you cant put toothpaste back in a tube after it is all over the countertop. You can try, but it sure gets messy. Now try putting Putin back into Russia when the army of idiots comes. Just look at Ukraine.

Amiga, there are lots of guns all over Poland. Lots of WW2 relics that have been well taken care of. Lots of people in the mountains armed to the teeth. Idealists are usually the first ones killed. I'll take some ammo and body armor thank you.

The thread isn't about you. There are plenty of posts here advocating a reduction in Poland's high standards to a low level approaching that in America. Fortunaletly there is no significant support for that lowering of standards.

And since you're trying to make it personal, perhaps this is an appropriate juncture to point out that even if Poland lowered its high standards, you still wouldn't be allowed to own a gun for obvious and sensible reasons.


Really?

Most of Poland aren't " at the ranges or at the military surplus shops or the gun stores". The overwhelming majority simply aren't interested, however much that irks you.


Article 5.

I remember many years ago an episode of Ranczo dealt with that... some kind of mafia was moving in on the village and the residents organized and defended themselves (with many retrieving carefully hidden guns). I tried to get people to talk about that then but was very unsuccessful.....

I remember that ep! great show! just goes to show that poles have the brains that only in extreme circumstances are guns to be pulled out. I thinik it's drilled to them in childhood that even two bottles of vodka does not overcome it. Also the fact that they are well hidden helps.

Episode 47 (s04e08) w samo popołudnie (High AfterNoon)

can be watched here: filman.cc/serial-online/ranczo/839/odcinek-8

OK, there are some guns like that. Probably not as many as you'd expect as they would get lost, broken etc.
In my own family after the war the father gathered all the guns, went out for few minutes and no-one seen them since. The house was taken apart to the ground and still nothing. He never said what he did with them.

And comparing having some hidden, old guns to more access to guns now is not the smartest

Well it was Ranczo, not a documentary.

What interested me (apart from the hidden weapons) was the idea of organizing for self-defense rather than just rolling over for the mob.... different people have different ideas about how that would work out in real life (though again the idea of the mob going after some remote village is also not the most.... realistic idea out there).

For such self defence to work you'd have to have strong community and a leader. In Ranczo it was Kusy who organisedall that.


PolAm was talking about all those guns. Plus most of them wouldn't be well maintained.

@jon357
You have been pointing things out and quoting me, so I asked you a direct question. As for my gun ownership, not only have I passed all background checks, licensed for a carry permit in two US States and volunteered teaching hunter safety programs years ago. My ability to use, maintain, and repair a weapon is exactly the skill set that would be in high demand if anything took place here.

If Russia does come, or Belarus, the 150K Polish military will not be able to stop them. An armed, responsible citizenry is what the Swiss have, and that would be a very good way to begin to educate people on gun safety and responsibility. I would propose any gun ownership comes with a mandatory biometric safe. Poles already have to pass background, and mental health checks to get licensed, it really is a pretty good system, it just takes a long time to get through the process like everything else in Poland.

And yet you advocate changing it...

@Lenka
I do advocate for it. The process takes too long, and some people are excluded who probably shouldn't be. Example; if your neighbor got caught smoking pot in the 90's in Warsaw while at University, he can be excluded for this reason that is 30 years ago or so. What if that person now is not only well regarded in his community, physically and mentally sound? Should the process take six months or more? Realistic changes, nothing drastic. I have been a constant proponent of safe gun ownership.

As for maintaining old weapons, in families, I think you would be surprised at how many have been maintained. My relatives here have a nice cache of their own well hidden and safe in the mountains. The mountain people don't give these things up easily and are probably the most paranoid when it comes to Russia. At least in my experience with family anyway.

Years ago perhaps. You would not now, in either Poland or the US.

As mentioned many times in this thread, there is no appetite in Poland for weakening the law on guns.

stop using brit bully boy tactics to try and win an arguement u are already on the canvas for, There is no hairy or delph to back u up in the most snide pom way possilbe. you know nothing about pak and have no way of knowing if he got a gun licence in poland, i reckon he's bought an AK-74 or similar in his travels in ukraine and belarus.


Stop being so dogmatic, PAK explained he wants to make it better, agree wholeheartedly about the pot thing, as our wise and kind leader morawiecki said, it is imperitive that people have the skills in firing and maintaining a firearm for the long term survival of poland.

[Guns are easy to own in Poland,laws are similar to some states in US.Its just that Polish citizens have no appetite.

Don't see a problem with that. I would even encourage it to weed out people who may be under emotional strain and want a gun due to some mischief in mind.


The whole point is that his better may not mean better to others.

Already won. There isn't any significant public demand for weakening gun laws in Europe.

Are you feeling OK? Your spelling has become odd.


6 months is a reasonable lead time, as well as an assessment by a clinical psychologist and extensive background checks.

@jon357
Wrong Jon, in Poland and the US any conviction for a drug crime will disqualify you for gun ownership. It does not matter the age of conviction or the drug. A relative of mine in USA, pillar of the community where he lives, denied right to purchase a shotgun for skeet shooting because he had an impaired driving conviction when he was 19, the conviction was from the 1980's. Gun laws in the US are pretty strict. The problem is, many people are so careless with how they store their guns. Robberies, burglaries, and idiots just not remembering what they did with them and they go missing. Then they end up on the black market or in the hands of criminals.

@Lenka
Ok, so you don't see a problem with 6 months or even longer. When Ivan and the boys are rolling into Warsaw what do you think is going to happen then? The same exact thing that happened in Ukraine. Guns will be given to everyone, and most people will have no clue what to do with them. Ivan will be going street to street whacking who ever they want, raping who ever they want. Meanwhile Norbert will be waiting by the mailbox for his permit?

While I do not think Russia is a real threat to Poland right now, it could be a week, a month or a year from now. While I don't think crime rates in Poland warrant mass arming of the people to guard their homes, I think the process needs to be updated and made more streamlined. When someone does break into your neighbors house and tries to rob or rape them, are you going to be upset if that intruder is killed or would you prefer for him to get away and then come back in a week for your family?

That is quite ridiculous reasoning.
1- it has already been an year since Russian invasion, those who wanted the gun had plenty of time
2- big part of gun popularity is the relative easiness of usage
3- those that do apply are such unsignificant number in case of invasion that it's silly.

If anything it's the army that should buy sh*tloads and sh*tloads of equipment

Rightly so. Any felony even.

And of course giving a gin licence without a full evaluation by a clinical psychologist is a bizarre ides.


Yet another reason (among very many) to prevent the proliferation of guns, as Poland does well already. No need to relax gun laws.

Citing America as an example is a poor idea, especially given their very high levels of gun crime.


Agreed. And not Przemek and Waldek who work at the gym and like looking at pictures of weapons and flashy cars.

@Lenka
Clearly you didn't see the hypothetical essence of that statement. Yes, I agree though, the army buying weapons now is wise. A little late but still wise.

Very good point PolAm.
This is why America is a threat to any enemy that wants to put boots on the ground in America.
America has a domestic Army of over 100 million strong.
@Lenka
As far as background checks go, to buy a gun or be in possession of a gun, not only felonies can disqualify you but also any violent conviction including domestic abuse.



And of course giving a gin licence without a full evaluation by a clinical psychologist is a bizarre ides.
(Did you mean "gun" "license" )
Yes joun, we heard you the first twenty-five times to steer the publics opinion.
Although your contribution has been duly noted and dismissed as pointless you keep right on parroting the same exact lines while avoiding my question to you.

Tell us joun, how would you defend yourself if you were attacked by some meth head hooligan with a knife. (Crickets)

Fortunately we don't have those in Poland.

How would Jim defend himself against 'some meth head hooligan' (presumably they have those in small town Michigan) with a bigger gun than his.

@johnny reb
I think joun is reading Hillary Clinton speeches in his spare time. Plenty of drug use all over Poland anyone saying otherwise lives under a rock. But I do like his idea of a gin license, particularly in Poland since alcohol use is probably the craziest I have seen anywhere in the world on a day to day basis. But, you dont have to worry about two drunks shooting each other because they dont have guns and they are probably too busy puking on the sidewalk or pi$$ing in the park in front of children to go look for a gun to buy. Nothing to see here folks, move along.

Irrelevant to Poland.


Yet in almost 30 years in Poland, living all of that time in big cities, I've never seen any 'meth crazed attackers' or been in a situation where a gun might be even slightly useful.

You yanks must be permanently paranoid if you think that Poland is teeming with 'meth crazed attackers'' to the point that you feel unsafe unless gun laws are reduced to a lower standard

There are plenty of felons in Poland, certain of them from abroad, however very very few '' meth crazed attackers''.

Crime rates are low. Gun crime rates are very low

@jon357
Did I say meth crazed? No. I said drug use. Plenty of drug use in Poland, and plenty of addicts.

Get off your high fvcking horse. You are no one to judge or say what Poland should or shouldn't do. Thats why there is voting. You need an intervention with your above everyone and everything attitude. You are stuffed so far up the left's a$$ that you can't even have a reasonable discussion. You are the all knowing and all seeing. Fine to speak your opinion but to claim that it is the majority opinion when you have no proof of it is wishful thinking. You take no account of other peoples thoughts, observations and opinions because of course you know what's best, not based on anything other than your opinion.