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The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland?


jon357 66 | 17,035
27 Dec 2013 #841
At least she didn't shoot schoolkids or kill someone who rang her doorbell. Unlike a few well publicised others.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
27 Dec 2013 #842
People would learn responsibility and accountability for their actions. If they are treated like children by the society they behave like children. A fact that there are some deranged or otherwise stupid people who misused guns do not chnage the fact that the right to own the gun is the right of every free people and is the right to be treated as a citizen not a serf. Those who misuse guns should be hand by the neck as a mangy dogs their are. However saying that because there are bad and stupid people out there all hard edges should be smoothed is just lunacy and bad working of a human brain, the same lunacy as if somebody would ban genitalia just because some bad and stupid people are using those to rape or hurt other people - can't do.
jon357 66 | 17,035
27 Dec 2013 #843
People would learn responsibility and accountability for their actions.

And they need guns for that?

Plenty of other ways - most of the world, including Poland, manage it.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
27 Dec 2013 #844
And they need guns for that?

Need? If somebody need a gun or want it what right have others to deny him that?

Plenty of other ways - most of the world, including Poland, manage it.

Really? Why the police in the most of the world is armed?
jon357 66 | 17,035
27 Dec 2013 #845
Need? If somebody need a gun or want it what right have others to deny him that?

Every right, given that a gun is a dangerous weapon. Hej, who's to deny me having a nuclear bomb?

Really? Why the police in the most of the world is armed?

Who's talking about the police? Only you. Why not have a monologue in front of a mirror and spare us your red herrings.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
27 Dec 2013 #846
Every right, given that a gun is a dangerous weapon.

So what? You still do not get it do you?

Hej, who's to deny me having a nuclear bomb?

Please restrain yourself form using that cheap rhetoric - Reductio ad absurdum - is not an argument and you know it.

Who's talking about the police? Only you. Why not have a monologue in front of a mirror and spare us your red herrings.

Unable to answer that one, no need to get exited about that - Breathe in, breathe out Tell me all of your doubt
bluesfan - | 85
27 Dec 2013 #847
Hej, who's to deny me having a nuclear bomb?

Please restrain yourself form using that cheap rhetoric - Reductio ad absurdum - is not an argument and you know it.

I've seen this dialogue somewhere before...

youtu.be/0uOY6x_K8Ms

For those who don't know much about James (or his brother Terry), you can do a little research here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oklahoma_City_bombing
jon357 66 | 17,035
27 Dec 2013 #848
is not an argument and you know it.

It very much is. If you allow access one sort of deadly weapon, where do you stop.

Unable to answer that one, no need to get exited about that

Far from exited. More bored.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
27 Dec 2013 #849
given that a gun is a dangerous weapon. Hej, who's to deny me having a nuclear bomb?

If you allow access one sort of deadly weapon, where do you stop.

Ironside is right when he notes "Reductio ad absurdum" A nuclear bomb indeed.

I'll use your attempt at logic jon. Knives are used to kill people. Let's do away with them including those used in the kitchen which have been used as weapons. Automobiles are involved in many deaths, by sober and by drunk drivers. Must get rid of them. Recently, a woman used prescription drugs to murder her husband, must do away with them.

Legal gun owners have, by far, the lowest gun crime rate. In fact, many lives are saved by use of guns in home invasions and in the street attacks. Thugs and illegal gun owners must not dictate irresponsible gun control laws to society.
jon357 66 | 17,035
27 Dec 2013 #850
A nuclear bomb indeed.

And what about all those steps in between? Starts with a revolver, then why not a semi-automatic, then what comes next?

No reason for the public to buy offensive weapons and fortunately no great will to do that here in PL.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
27 Dec 2013 #851
And what about all those steps in between?

Reread my comments about banning knives, cars and prescription drugs and you'll have your answer. Try not to block it out.
Ban knives and iPhones tool.......
breitbart.com/InstaBlog/2013/12/26/Teen-Arrested-For-Pulling-Knife-on-Dad-After-Not-Getting-iPhone-for-Xmas
Mixing the two is too dangerous.
The misuse of items and services is endless. Sandwich shops are too tempting .....
seattle.cbslocal.com/2013/12/24/man-arrested-for-humping-sandwich-shop-window
We must continue to restrict anything that can be misused and abused.
jon357 66 | 17,035
27 Dec 2013 #852
None of those things are made with the intention of blowing a hole in someone from a distance, are they?
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
27 Dec 2013 #853
I legally own guns and have no intention of doing what you imply gun owners do. I enjoy target practice and occasional hunting. Your repressive BigGovernment measures would take that freedom away from me. Additionally, my home guns can be used for family protection. You would take that away from me as well.

The big picture is that anything can be abused and misused. Autos, knives, even pane glass windows, etc. Repressive measures are not the answer except for those who prefer to live in enslavement.
jon357 66 | 17,035
27 Dec 2013 #854
I enjoy target practice and used to enjoy occasional hunting too.

What I don't like, is when I look at the newspaper and there's a sad item - very often from your fine country. I don't think it's a 'big government' thing. Just common sense to make sure that some of these nuts don't get guns.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
29 Dec 2013 #855
That sounds reasonable except for the "I don't think it's a big government thing. "Confiscating guns from law abinding citizens is very much a BigGovernment thing. As a reminder, that's what Hitler, Stalin, Mao, Castro, etc, did and that's one of the first things all dictators do. (is there any wonder why?)

As I pointed out in a previous post; "The big picture is that anything can be abused and misused. Autos, knives, even pane glass windows, etc. Repressive measures are not the answer except for those who prefer to live in enslavement." we cannot confiscate objects because some lefties have an erroneous emotional agenda that is illogical.

Hey, let's ban ceramic objects....
baduck
29 Dec 2013 #856
You can get guns in poland My wifes uncle has many he joined the local shooting club had a doctors assessment saying he was not crazy had the police come and check the security of where they would be stored its not like walking into a store and buying a gun for ***** and giggles it takes alot of time and money to obtain a license but know he has it he can order guns online then collect in person from his local firearms dealer
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
29 Dec 2013 #857
Okay, this will be my last example of how products are misused. There are so many instances of people using items other than guns to seek revenge that the list is seemingly endless. Lets ban bleach.......
jon357 66 | 17,035
29 Dec 2013 #858
Lets ban bleach.

Is bleach made to be as effective as possible to blow holes in people? I always assumed it was for disinfecting the bog.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
29 Dec 2013 #859
I've previously pointed out to you (evidently it didn't take) that guns are made for hunting, sporting such as target practice, defense of home and if need be to be used against tyranny. Like any other object they can be abused by those who should not own them. Inanimate objects are just that. It is people who misuse them whether its a ceramic piece, bleach or an automobile. Therefore, it is logical to understand that the problem lies deeper. It lies within people.

Recently, when a woman hit her husband with a chair he didn't blame the chair. The chair wasn't charged with aggravated assault and domestic violence. Banning an object does nothing to address the real problem.
jon357 66 | 17,035
29 Dec 2013 #860
I've previously pointed out to you (evidently it didn't take) that guns are made for hunting, sporting such as target practice,

So are bows and arrows for that matter - yet the gun shops in countries where they exist - tend to stock the most lethal.

Fortunately in Poland, people just don't want them.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
29 Dec 2013 #861
Is bleach made to be as effective as possible to blow holes in people? I always assumed it was for disinfecting the bog.

Could you perhaps stop repeating yourself and use some real arguments here provided you do have some.
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
29 Dec 2013 #862
ZIMMY:I've previously pointed out to you (evidently it didn't take) that guns are made for hunting, sporting such as target practice,
So are bows and arrows for that matter - yet the gun shops in countries where they exist - tend to stock the most lethal.

You intentionally ignored the rest of my statement. "I've previously pointed out to you (evidently it didn't take) that guns are made for hunting, sporting such as target practice, defense of home and if need be to be used against tyranny. People prefer guns to "bows and arrows". So what! People prefer many things over others. Besides, it's easier to defend oneself with a gun.
jon357 66 | 17,035
29 Dec 2013 #863
But only guns are made to cause such damage, come in so many varieties and are available in your country in those gun fairs to whatever nut wants to do a mass shooting.

Fortunately in Poland, there's no significant gun lobby.
bluesfan - | 85
29 Dec 2013 #864
Poland currently does not have a gun problem - if it ain't broke, why 'fix' it?
If Poles want to live in a country with 10,000 gun-related homicides a year, they can just move to the States...

guns are made for hunting, sporting such as target practice, defense of home and if need be to be used against tyranny. Besides, it's easier to defend oneself with a gun.




Ironside 50 | 10,939
29 Dec 2013 #865
Poland currently does not have a gun problem - if it ain't broke, why 'fix' it?

Think about Swiss model, with assault rifles in many households and Poland able to field in four to five hours Home Defense Army numbered from seven to ten million people. With the assault rifles on hand what sense would be in limiting access to hand weapons or shotguns?
bluesfan - | 85
29 Dec 2013 #866
Poland able to field in four to five hours Home Defense Army numbered from seven to ten million people.

Poland has a national army and is a member of NATO, so that arguement is out.
They also don't have a serious gun problem with dozens of nut-jobs murdering children and teachers every year.
I don't think any sane person would want to change the gun laws to make the country less safe.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
30 Dec 2013 #867
Poland has a national army and is a member of NATO, so that arguement is out.

No this argument is valid.

They also don't have a serious gun problem with dozens of nut-jobs murdering children and teachers every year.

Do you have any links to those statistic?
ZIMMY 6 | 1,601
31 Dec 2013 #868
I laughed at the silliness of the sign, "Real men use fists". If a couple of thugs were breaking into your home, I suspect you'd rather point a gun at them instead of your fists. Of course I can picture some naive lefties shouting, "I've got my dukes up so you'd better flee." The mental naivette of BigGovernment gun control advocates makes one wonder how such docile people could survive in a "Mad Max" world.
jon357 66 | 17,035
31 Dec 2013 #869
The mental naivette of BigGovernment gun control advocates makes one wonder how such docile people could survive in a "Mad Max" world.

We don't live in a "Mad Max world'.

Nor are crime rates in your country where guns are relatively easily available any lower than those in Poland where they are not.
Ironside 50 | 10,939
31 Dec 2013 #870
The mental naivette of BigGovernment gun control advocates makes one wonder how such docile people could survive in a "Mad Max" world.

Oh that kind of people is great in double standards and hypocrisy. I'm sure they would have armed themselves to the teeth.


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