Polish grammar crazy???!!! Try English spelling vs. pronunciation! That's a nightmare waiting to happen, not only for Poles or other non-English native speakers, but for plenty of us "regular" English speakers too:-)))) It might interest the rest here to learn that the US, for instance, is the ONLY country which has spelling bees. The reason of course is that English orthography is soooooo crazy (literally!!!), that those who can spell proficiently are deemed heroes. And they are! Sadly, most can't (thanks to that wonder panacea 'hooked-on phonicsLOL) and a great many can't count either (thanks in large part to the New Math craze of the early sixties)
America the leader of the civilized, read industrialized, world???!!! Don't make me laugh!
If but to prove my point, where pray tell's the bleedin' logic in "pflegm" instead of the more phonetically transparent/'logical' "flem" or even "flemm"?? How about all of our upmteen silent letters, truncated consonants, schwa sounds etc.. ad infinitum?? Sure, there's the historical spin on it, 'cuz English spelling never kept up with writing following Caxton's import of printing to England, since half the populace at the time were fecking illiterates and the only ones who weren't were the shopkeepers, i.e. merchant classes plus the clergy, of course!!!
No, I still stand by the above thesis, thank you. Furthermore, what makes a highly inflected language like Polish "crazy" in the first place? Who after all decides on things such as linguistic sanity?? Turkish for instance is a whole lot more synthetic than English ever was; it's also a heck of a lot more "regular" morphologically than most other languages with which I'm familiar. I must confess though, as a Western language speaker, I'm not really conversant in African or Asian languages at all to be able to pass judgement:-)
"English", for instance, is always written with intial caps, by the way, one of among many errors I've noted.
Common and do you think that in a forum I'm worried if I'm writing "English" with capital letter!? :S Of course I know that, it's the same rule for almost all languages in the world...
When last in Europe, I met several college-age students during our trip. My wife and I were of course struck by how well they seemed to speak English, almost with American-style accents, though all three were relatively young! After complementing them on their English (though having of course begun the initial conversation in their language!), they responded with almost blase indifference, even if they managed a faint smile. I then added that since we'd all be traveling together on the same tour, they might like to practice their English with us. They stated point blank that their English was "just fine" and didn't "need no practice"LOL, belittling at the same time my wife and my desire to continue in their native tongue.
This must be a big surprise for many of the non-Polish members of the PF since you've found worthwhile to underline the fact they weren't Polish!
While the reduced desire for sex with members of other nations among the British is perhaps widely known in the world (as testified by the title of this West End play: "No sex, please! We are British"), the reluctance of other nations to practice English with them or other native speakers of that language seem to have jumped out as a relatively new phenomenon.
Could it be attributed to any specific social or cultural factors? Every one may have their own theory. I myself think that in the world where all sorts of information come in such abundance, it is no longer interesting for the younger generation to explore new and, in fact, casual contacts with people they meet unless they are particularly interested in it for one reason or another. "Language" contact is apparently not within the scope of their interest; the occasion for it is not as rare as it used to be, so they do not tend to "jump" at it immediately. Also, these days they have so many other possibilities, including the availability of international press on the internet and multi-channel TV in different languages at almost every home.
Turns out they were from Denmark (I was finally able to jog my memoryLOL). While what you've observed may well be true, it scarcely justifies English being placed on such a high pedestal, if in fact those who claim to speak it, often decline to want to keep it up:-)
As American youth, since at the very least, the late 60's,early 70's and later, have begun to adopt African-Americanisms in their daily speech, e.g. "back in the day(s)" rather than "in former times", "Go chill!" instead of "Take it easy!" etc..., so too this regrettable (if at the same time unstoppable) tendency has filtered into the slang speech of many a foreigner between the ages of 18-30 (:- The problem is and never was the fact that slang exists. Such is the natural change in language, i.e. idiolect as well as the socialect. The real problem here is that for the past thirty years or so, youth throughout the world, and even here at home, have learned ONLY the substandard, often not even recognizing the standard when they encounter it. Often as well, most foreign-born non-native English speakers fail to hear when their language sounds polite, aesthetic, well-phrased and when it sounds trashy, vulgar and rude; everything seems to sound the same to them because they've basically become tone deaf to the English language! It's as if English remains to them an iceberg; they see and hear merely the tip, yet never see what's further down below.
I truly hope Polish doesn't begin homogenizing its language. It too, much as Romanian, French and a number of other languages, must continue preserving it's precious uniqueness, one diacritical mark at a time:-))
NO NO NO NO You cannot MAKE me go back!!!!!!!! *runs away crying and throwing ashes in hair*
Least that was the last time I was at a public school til my teens! Thank Bob my parents had money back then at least.
To be fair on how we Americans are speaking English different from our originating speakers in so many ways (regional dialects) are almost directly related to type of immigrants prevalent in the area during the major settling of it. And phonetics from the standpoint of each type of immigrant is different. Not to mention after the well to do grabbed futures of position and land for lessor sons, the next few waves of Anglos were not exactly educated cream of the crop. And immigration was generally an approved and welcome concept until well into the early 70s (haters were gonna hate the immigrant ethnic of the season.
Spelling bees usually showcase the ability to know and use complex and rare latin/greek based or non-english words..like Laodicean (here the southern "lackadaisial" comes from...it's biblical btw)..or haecceity ...or Bewusstseinslage (used in written portion of a test a few years back).
Hee heh heh... I wait for spelling bees to incorporate words coming common now from places like Netherlands, Poland, Turkey (won't count languages that use different type lettering Cyrillic or Arabic..that will be the Spelling Bee Xgames of future >_< )
Hmmm... can I be against circuses like Spelling Bees (yes I admit they are entertaining to peek at) and not sound like I think a grasp of spelling (not just hooked on phonics) is bad?
But wish for better base education in the majority of childen... ? even "gasp" if it means no money goes to sports programs?
(<--former jockette. ...was painful to suggest it) No need fer'n no fancy talk wurds anyhows..it aint gonna git me a job izit? (seriously if my father was alive to see me use lazy composition and grammar as I do on the webz, he'd have to take some bismuth!)
And on the subject.. my fiance has college level written English and quite passable spoken english including a steadily growing vocabulary of colloquial. His accent only becomes apparent in certain words or when he is very tired, but is so soft; I honestly think if he lived in an English speaking country , specially the States he'd be indiscernible from an average Joe after 5 -6 years.
I do not think that would be case if I came to him or we move later to Poland >_<
: ( (why this dropped from post and wouldn't edit.. I cannot guess. Likely user error ) <_<
No, not yet. He is finishing his BA in Robotic Engineering, so is still in residency in Poland. Plus he is training his replacement in family business ^_^
Rysavy, I apologize for my condescending "down shift" mode yesterday:-)
All I meant, I suppose, is that we in the US have long since lost our elitism, something Poland, Germany, Russia, France, (come to think of it, just about everywhere else!!!) still maintain:-) One-upmanship is alive and well in these countries, as regards culture, at least.
five eyes- pięć par oczu( eyes as a part of the face ) / jedno oko, dwa oka, trzy oka, cztery oka, pięć oczek. we can distinguish "oko" as a part of a net . I am Polish and I have to admit that sometimes I have to think about corectness in Polish language :)
That's true. This is because in the declension of the nouns: oko, ucho or ręka we can still find forms of the archaic dual number alongside the modern ones.
Sorry to say that, but I think it's because English simply sounds better than my own language (more vowels, diphthongs etc.), has more words, which can be used to describe a certain thing, e.g. in music theory, I can't find the equivalent of the word "slapping", "popping" etc. (I'm talking about the bass guitar). That is why most young people know better English, than Polish... I say that as a native Polish person. Tak mi przykro...
hat is why most young people know better English, than Polish.
No they don't.....
Even if they get better grades on matura for english - the level being tested is nowhere close. You can get good grades for English just for being understandable while you have to be eloquent to get good grades in Polish.
But that communicative english often sounds basic and unsophisticated to native speakers.
I can't find the equivalent of the word "slapping", "popping" etc. (I'm talking about the bass guitar)
Simply "slapy" and "popy". Sounds absurd.. But I was only giving some examples. I wasn't exactly talking about it. I really think Polish sounds like everybody is angry.
POLISH 18 - 30 years old know MUCH BETTER ENGLISH language than their own native language polish!
you will be shocked to notice that you will hear a lot of versions,
Because Polish is a garbage language and Poles think that rules don't apply to them. In their minds, distorting and deviating from the norm is a sign of creativity, not a royal pain in the ass to those who have to listen and decode.
My OH took a course in English at work and brought a homework worksheet which was made by the 'teacher'. Roughly a third of the questions had no possible correct answer, and despite decades of teaching this same language and being paid by the governments of two countries to write exams and tests, for a few of the questions I genuinely couldn't figure out what answers she wanted or what could even fit.
That 'teacher' has a Polish 'magister' and a Teaching qualification. She works mostly at a University.
And don't even mention the words actually and eventually. It's a classic transference issue so excusable, however when even the Teachers don't understand that.....
Home / Language / POLISH 18 - 30 years old know MUCH BETTER ENGLISH language than their own native language!
