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IS "MURZYN" word RACIST?


boletus 30 | 1,367    
29 Oct 2012  #241
My point is that Polish language is so primitive that it has to steal words. If you would use only POLISH words (not the one stolen from other nations) you would be able to describe any complex matter or describe colours.

Because we do not need any girlie colours, such as "różowy"; true Poles just use manly colours:

maść kara (black):
+ krucza (raven)
+ wronia (crow)

maść kasztanowata (chestnut):
+ kasztanowata, cisawa - rudożółta w różnych odcieniach, od morelowych do miedzianych,
+ jasnokasztanowata - sierść słomkoworuda, ogon i grzywa jasne
+ złotokasztanowata
+ brunatnokasztanowata
+ ciemnokasztanowata (wątrobiana)

maść gniada (bay):
+ jasnogniada (light bay)
+ gniada (bay)
+ ciemnogniada (dark bay)
+ skarogniada (black bay)

maść siwa (grey):
+ ciemnosiwa
+ jabłkowita
+ szpak miodowy
+ szpak różany
+ jasnosiwa
+ mlecznosiwa (milky grey)
+ dropiata

maść izabelowata:
+ masłowata (buttery)
+ złotoizabelowata
+ palomino

maść jelenia (deer):

maść przydymiona kara: (smoke
maść kremowa:
maść perłowa:
maść przydymiona kremowa:
maść czerwonobułana:
maść bułana:
maść myszata:
maść szampańska:
+ złotoszampańska
+ burszztynowoszampańska
+ klasyczna szampańska
+ złotoszampańska kość słoniowa
+ burszztynowoszampańska kość słoniowa
+ klasyczna szampańska kość słoniowa

maść srebrna (silver):
+ srebrna kasztanowata
+ srebrna gniada
+ srebrna kara

maść dereszowata - pleśniawa (roan - mildew)
+ kasztanowodereszowata
+ gniadodereszowata
+ karodereszowata

maść tarantowata (dappled)
+ leopard
+ derka (horsecloth)
+ derka z plamkami (horsecloth with spots)
+ na tle dereszowatym
+ płatki śniegu (snow flakes)
pip 11 | 1,660    
29 Oct 2012  #242
Hindusi-ppl from India
Indianie-native Americans
Aborygeni-Aborigens(native ppl of different continents mosly used in term of native Australians

exactly.

Indians are from India--should be Indyjski
Native Americans are Indyjski- should be something else of which I am not sure- perhaps rodowity, rodzimy - something to this effect
Aborygeni- this is correct for Australia but can also be used to describe the first nations people of north america.

As for colours, let's see.

how do you say taupe, sage, jade, indigo, slate--there are endless colours and they all translate to the same word with a Polish spelling.
Lenka 2 | 1,067    
29 Oct 2012  #243
Indians are from India--should be Indyjski

That wouldn't be racist at all :D Indyjski refers only to THINGS.Yeah,that would be great.

Native Americans are Indyjski- should be something else of which I am not sure- perhaps rodowity, rodzimy - something to this effect

Here goes oversensitvity-rodowity means native and why should we necessarily use that.After all I don't ask ppl to call me Native Caucasian or Native European.

Aborygeni- this is correct for Australia but can also be used to describe the first nations people of north america.

Yes you can but you would add Kanadyjscy,Amerykańscy.
As to colours-I'm not an expert in that but pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lista_kolor%C3%B3w
boletus 30 | 1,367    
29 Oct 2012  #244
should be something else of which I am not sure- perhaps rodowity, rodzimy - something to this effect

The word is "tubylec", "tuziemiec", or "autochton" (from Greek's 'autochthon' - 'from this land') and it covers Native Americans and Australian Aborigenes.

Native Americans are Indyjski-

Wrong again, the noun in plural is "Indianie", and the adjective is "indiański" - in politically incorrect speech.

how do you say taupe, sage, jade, indigo, slate--there are endless colours and they all translate to the same word with a Polish spelling.

taupe = ciemnoszary (taupe)
sage = szałwia
slate = łupek
indigo = indygo
jade = jadeit
boleta    
29 Oct 2012  #245
Native Americans are Indyjski

you need to learn better Polish. Pronto. Native Americans in Polish are called Indianie.

As for colours, let's see.

You are throwing around bunch of jargon words trying to impress your clients. They don't know these terms, either. Even if they are Americans or Canadians.

taupe

szaro-brązowy

sage

szaro-zielony etc etc enough, I'm not doing your homework for you
pip 11 | 1,660    
29 Oct 2012  #246
As to colours-I'm not an expert in that but

the list of colours are quite good but not used in every day speech--which is my point.

pip: Native Americans are Indyjski-
Wrong again, the noun in plural is "Indianie", and the adjective is "indiański" - in politically incorrect speech.

how am I wrong? Native Americans are not Indianie or Indianski- they are something else.

Indians from India should be called Indianie or indianski but they are called hinduski- which is wrong- it describes the religion and not the nationality and not all indians are hindus. there are buddhists, muslims and a few others.

pip: Native Americans are Indyjski
you need to learn better Polish. Pronto. Native Americans in Polish are called Indianie.--exactly!! and it is wrong!!

pip: As for colours, let's see.
You are throwing around bunch of jargon words trying to impress your clients. They don't know these terms, either. Even if they are Americans or Canadians.

--no I am not, a colour is a colour- Pantone sets the standards for the world to follow.

pip: taupe
szaro-brązowy
pip: sage
szaro-zielony etc etc enough, I'm not doing your homework for you--I didn't ask you to, I already know what they are.
Lenka 2 | 1,067    
29 Oct 2012  #247
pip: Native Americans are Indyjski
you need to learn better Polish. Pronto. Native Americans in Polish are called Indianie.--exactly!! and it is wrong!!

It's interesting how you skipped the part in which I told you that Indyjski is absolutely incorrect due to Polish grammar.

One more time you skipped important information.
Let's get one thing clear-you think our language is primitive and so be it.Just give us the right to decide what's right for us.We like our language and want it to be the way it is.
boletus 30 | 1,367    
29 Oct 2012  #248
how am I wrong? Native Americans are not Indianie or Indianski- they are something else.

Because you do not see the difference between these two words:
INDYJSKI - coming from India
INDIAŃSKI - coming from South or North America

And because your grammar above is senseless.

According to you:

Indians from India should be called Indianie or indianski

But they are not - no matter how much you want it to be. Someone, long time ago, decided to differentiate the two cultures: Native Americans and people from India by using the big letter HHHHHHHH!!!

This way, he corrected the Columbus'es error in Polish language.

The male word in Polish is Hindus, and the female word is Hinduska, which in Polish means "obywatel / obywatelka Indii - a citizen of India". It has nothing to do with the religion. Simple

The corresponding adjectives are either hinduski (in reference to people) or indyjski (to objects). Once again - there is no indiański here.
pl.wiktionary.org/wiki/Hindus

On the other hand the word "hinduizm" in Polish is a collective term for a group of religious beliefs, mainly from the Indian subcontinent.

Believers of "hinduizm", in English Hindu, are called hinduiści (sing. hinduista, hinduistka) in Polish.

Simple. Do not mix English Hindu with Polish Hindus.
pip 11 | 1,660    
29 Oct 2012  #249
adjective
indyjski--Indian, of India
indiański--Indian
hinduski--Indian, Hindu, Hindi, Hindoo
noun
Indianin--Indian, buck, red man, redskin
Hindus--Indian, Hindu, Hindoo

I am not wrong.

Indianin is incorrect to describe first nations
Hindus is incorrect to describe somebody from India.

you keep adding so much English to Polish, which seems to be fine to destroy the language but for something that is important such as cultural descriptions and accuracy you don't give a feck. Makes total sense. And speaks volumes of the type of people living here.
boleta    
29 Oct 2012  #250
I already know what they are.

Not in Polish, clearly.

a colour is a colour- Pantone sets the standards for the world to follow.

And every color in Pantone system can be named in Polish as well. You just don't know Polish well enough to figure it out and in frustration calling it primitive. How highly sophisticated of you.

Native Americans in Polish are called Indianie.--exactly!! and it is wrong!!

Poland is not going to change terminology to accommodate the social fashion du jour. You think its insensitive - it's your prerogative, but Poles generally don't care about such a PC nonsense.
enkidu 7 | 623    
29 Oct 2012  #251
Hindus is incorrect to describe somebody from India.

I think it's their fault. I mean Indians in India for some reason call themselves "Hindustani". Someone shall go there and tell them to stop this because this is racists and incorrect.

------

Now colours. I am Polish and I know only three colours names in my native language:
- fajny kolor (nice good looking colour)
- ciulowy kolor (not so nice but acceptable in certain circumstances)
- pedalski kolor (nah-nah colour)

And thats three Polish colours that cover every shade. Now you see how primitive we are.
Lenka 2 | 1,067    
29 Oct 2012  #252
pip
It's gettin so frustrating.Many ppl are trying to explain it but you refuse to listen.Just give it a break if you don't want to learn anything.
pip 11 | 1,660    
29 Oct 2012  #253
no, I learn every day how Polish people really are. Here is no different. You don't like somebody questioning the language, unless they are polish so you bring on the insults. That is fine, speaks volumes.

And every color in Pantone system can be named in Polish as well. You just don't know Polish well enough to figure it out and in frustration calling it primitive. How highly sophisticated of you.

no, I actually do. My point is only simple colours are used in everyday conversation and this was explained to me by a Polish friend, not my observation.

The thing is English is conveniently taken on when it suits Poland. Listen to any young person today and you will hear loads of English. How does one differentiate what is offensive and what isn't in regular language. The language is changing and the words Hindu and Indian are offensive when used in the context. You get to pick and choose which works for you and which doesn't? Language evolves as cultures decide if the label that has been placed on them is offensive or not.

I don't give a feck about the words you say. I teach my children to be respectable to other cultures whether Polish people deem it to be necessary or not.
enkidu 7 | 623    
29 Oct 2012  #254
I don't give a feck about the words you say. I teach my children to be respectable to other cultures whether Polish people deem it to be necessary or not.

Do you teach them respect to the Polish culture as well?
Or maybe Polish culture is an exception? Maybe Polish so-called "culture" does not deserve any respect?
Lenka 2 | 1,067    
29 Oct 2012  #255
no, I learn every day how Polish people really are. Here is no different. You don't like somebody questioning the language, unless they are polish so you bring on the insults. That is fine, speaks volumes.

How did I insult you?You're the one who uses expressions like "primitive" or "how they really are"

The thing is English is conveniently taken on when it suits Poland. Listen to any young person today and you will hear loads of English.

Yes,we borrow some words but that doesn't mean we should change the words that have been used for a long time

Language evolves as cultures decide if the label that has been placed on them is offensive or not.

Agreed but who is to decide?You?

I don't give a feck about the words you say.

This shows great openess.

I teach my children to be respectable to other cultures whether Polish people deem it to be necessary or not.

I do feel respect for other cultures I just don't like the way you think the respect should be shown
sofijufka 2 | 191    
29 Oct 2012  #256
I teach my children to be respectable to other cultures whether Polish people deem it to be necessary or not.

to All cultures unless they are polish - of course
boleta    
29 Oct 2012  #257
no, I actually do.

Clearly - you don't. Which you demonstrated here

how do you say taupe, sage, jade, indigo, slate--there are endless colours and they all translate to the same word with a Polish spelling.

My point is only simple colours are used in everyday conversation

So it's in English; terms like taupe, sage, jade, indigo, slate are not used in common everyday conversation either.

The thing is English is conveniently taken on when it suits Poland.

So what? It doesn't mean Polish language is primitive.

I don't give a feck about the words you say. I teach my children to be respectable to other cultures whether Polish people deem it to be necessary or not.

Well, the likelihood of that happening is rather small, as first the mother must show respect for her new adopted country. Since you don't - it all be in vain. They will be an arrogant know-it-alls like you.
pip 11 | 1,660    
29 Oct 2012  #258
whatever.

don't care.

doesn't mean anything in my world.

pip: The thing is English is conveniently taken on when it suits Poland.
So what? It doesn't mean Polish language is primitive.

no, it means that Poles would rather lose their language than change simple words to Polish.

If Poles are so fiercely patriotic than keep the language as is and accommodate new words into Polish.

As for colour- when a person works in a business that describes colour--these descriptive words are important.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837    
29 Oct 2012  #259
how do you say taupe, sage, jade, indigo, slate--there are endless colours and they all translate to the same word with a Polish spelling.

taupe - szarobrązowy
sage - szarozielony
jade - malachitowy
indygo - indygo, ciemny błękit
slate - gołębi

"All translate to the same word"? Exactly how? What would that word be, according to you?

Now be kind enough to render the following in English:

różowy - różowawy- różowiutki - zaróżowiony.

Single-word equivalents, remember.

A special present for pip:

barwy.net/paleta_polskie.php

Enjoy!

Topic seems to be wandering.
Ironside 47 | 9,251    
29 Oct 2012  #260
First nations people, Natives, Aboriginals in Polish are called Indyjski. Which to them is offensive. It has nothing to do with the Indian ocean.

Well, you don't know your own language it seems:

Indian can be many things:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian

no, I learn every day how Polish people really are. Here is no different. You don't like somebody questioning the language, unless they are polish so you bring on the insults. That is fine, speaks volumes.

you can question all you want but you cannot decide for Poles whats what in the Polish language that is ridiculous!

I teach my children to be respectable to other cultures whether Polish people deem it to be necessary or not.

You cannot teach something you haven't mastered yourself.
strzyga 2 | 993    
30 Oct 2012  #261
Had a bad day in the office, Pip?
pip 11 | 1,660    
30 Oct 2012  #262
A special present for pip:
Enjoy!

wow, I am flattered, however it still doesn't prove anything. These colours are not used in every day language- these are paint colours translated to Polish.

How many people in everyday language would use oatmeal, sage, indigo etc, to describe a colour. I already know the answer- I deal with this every day.

As for not teaching my kids to be proud of Polish- that is complete bs. We are a mixed family so my kids are proud of two cultures. They just happen to be more respectful with their language and actions than many on this forum show.

Yes, the word Indian has many meanings but some of them are wrong. A wrong label placed by the settlers of the new world. First Nations people do not want to be called Indians any more. And this is good enough for me.
Magdalena 3 | 1,837    
30 Oct 2012  #263
these are paint colours translated to Polish.

These are colour / shade names USED in Poland by anyone who needs to use them.

How many people in everyday language would use oatmeal, sage, indigo etc, to describe a colour.

People who are interested and artistic enough, for any reason they might see fit.

The fact that not many people use these terms in everyday life does not prove that such terms do not exist in the language. Do you use a lot of specialised scientific terminology every day? No? Does that mean English does not have such terminology? According to your reasoning, yes.

You still haven't answered me:

"All translate to the same word"? Exactly how? What would that word be, according to you?

and

różowy - różowawy- różowiutki - zaróżowiony.

Single-word equivalents, remember.

First Nations people do not want to be called Indians any more. And this is good enough for me.

The First Nations have a private quarrel with the descendants of the settlers. I'm fine with that. But I do not speak Spanish, French, or English, and I am not North American. My language and heritage is completely distinct and separate. Therefore, I will continue to use the terminology that is deemed correct and appropriate in my part of the world. That is good enough for me.

I think, pip, that if you did not use such arrogant and sweeping statements about whole languages and nations, your message would actually come across much clearer and you wouldn't be offending so many people in the process. Unless that is what you were aiming for, that is.
pierogi2000 4 | 229    
2 Nov 2013  #264
Merged: Is using "Murzyn" politically correct in Poland?

Why not just use "black"? Wikipedia states

According to the Dictionary of the Polish Language, 'murzyn' means somebody with black skin. Informally, it can also mean:
Somebody anonymously doing work for somebody else;
Somebody with a dark brown tan;
A hard working person forced to do hard labour.

This leads me to assume murzyn is the rough equivalent of negro? So using czarny is more correct
legend 3 | 671    
2 Nov 2013  #265
I think murzyn is more correct. In fact the word negro is fine too and is used around the world. The big bad N word is nigger.

Labeling races into colors simply doesnt work because everyone can have their own views on what makes a "white" or "black" person.

(I.e. Some people dont consider Italians white, some say Arabs are white, etc).

Africans have different colors/shades to them, as do Europeans.
If they tried to match race + color they should at least put some effort/detail into it.

Some people like to jump to easy conclusions like this:

White = Caucasian
Black = subsaharan Negro
Red = American Indian, Aboriginal North American
Yellow = Asian

These color to race labels are to simplistic imo. A race isnt just a color. There is more to it.
pierogi2000 4 | 229    
2 Nov 2013  #266
Good point Legend. I guess the rule I always use is how would you describe the individual out of a group of people. In that sense why not use the simple black? I think this notion always makes it safe when it comes to ethnicity like the point you made.
jon357 65 | 13,627    
2 Nov 2013  #267
Is using "Murzyn" politically correct in Poland?

Just old-fashioned.

There are threads already on this.
f stop 25 | 2,520    
2 Nov 2013  #268
I had to check who revived this old thread...
Surprise!
Pierogi!
AdamKadmon 2 | 508    
2 Nov 2013  #269
: Is using "Murzyn" politically correct in Poland?

murzyn

1. Murzyn «Black person»
2. pot. «(deeply) tanned man»
3. pot. «one who works for another without revealing his identity - a ghostwriter»
4. pot. «one who works very hard and is exploited»

It may be offensive depending on the intention of those who use it and sensitivity of those who are called by it. It is etymologically neutral as calling a white person a white man.
SaqalibaMan    
2 Apr 2014  #270
Merged: Racism in Poland and the word "Murzyn" - racist or neutral? (my views)

First of all, i'd like to say "hi" to everyone while this is my first post up inhere. I'm 26 years old, currently living in Poland.

In this thread I'd like to discuss racism in Poland and among the Poles abroad, as well as the (somenow controversial) Polish word "Murzyn".

The Polish word "Murzyn" was always seen as neutral (an equivalent of the English word "Black" describing a dark-skinned person of African ancestry).

During the centuries Polish people used it and it was never seen as derogatory. Why? It's simple - because Polish people never took part in the slave trade, never collonialized an African country (or no other country, ever), Polish people did not have racism in their genes, you must also remember that:

As in most countries racism has existed also in Poland in a variety of forms and to various extents over the course of its history. Poles were also victims of racism in their own country. [...] (See also: Racial policy of Nazi Germany, Nazi crimes against the Polish nation, and Polish decrees)

In the early 20th century Poland was under the German and Soviet occupation. During this period Polish people were harshly discriminated against in their own country. The Nazi German regime had seen Poles as non-Aryan "subhumans" (untermenschen) that were fit only for slavery and extermination.[1] Poles were the victims of Nazi crimes against humanity. Approximately 6 million ethnic Poles were exterminated during the World War II. Poles were also the subject of ethnic cleansing during massacres of Poles in Volhynia and Eastern Galicia, then the territory of Poland. Polish slaves in Nazi Germany were forced to wear identifying red tags with "P"s sewn to their clothing; sexual relations with Germans (rassenschande or "racial defilement") were punishable by death.[2] During the war, thousands of Polish men were executed for their relations with German women.


... and also please read this:

"Poles were very often called "white niggers" by the WASPs, settlers of White Anglo-Saxon Protestant origin. Hence, the Poles often chose Black women, sharing almost the same social status. Those Poles, the earliest emigrants, were mostly simple farmers for whom black women, born and raised on the cotton fields, were the perfect match. The word "racism" did not exist in the Polish mentality. Poland was bordered by Christianity, Russian Orthodoxy and Islam. Poles, Russians, Cossacks, Tartars, Turks fought together and they lived together for centuries. They had learned to respect each other's ethnic origin and understand various religious beliefs. The 18th-century Polish Constitution of the 3rd of May was more democratic than the U.S. Constitution of that time. Everybody, no matter what God they prayed to, no matter what the color of their skin was, all had the same rights. There was no Holy Inquisition in Poland; no one was burned at the stake for his own belief in God"

You might ask me "so, what happened that some people nowadays see the word "Murzyn" as racist?" I will tell ya - some people, mostly those who are not Polish and don't know nothing about our history, started to wrongfully compare the word "Murzyn" with the American word "Nigger". I must say to those people - don't you dare say this bullsh*t, that the word "Murzyn" is the equivallent of the "N word". The word "nigger" has only ONE equivallent in the Polish language - "czarnuch" which comes from the Polish word "czarny" meaning a black color. Nevertheless, through the popularity of hip-hop culture in Poland, I've heard lots of young Poles use the word "czarnuchu" to refer to each other just for fun, just like Blacks use the word "nigga". Note, that Poles were not involved in the slave trade, the KKK, and all the other terrible stuff, however, Poles were called this term ("white niggers" and "white negros") back in history. Even American Latinos/Hispanics were not called "niggers" so often as Poles were called "white niggers".

There is also a Polish word "brudas" which some consider an equivallent of "nigger" which is only partially truth, while the word's "brudas" main meaning is "dirty", "all in dirt" or "not washed", this word was an affectionate pet form of the phrase "dirty person". When I was a kid i used to write this word with my finger on some very dirty cars, and also as a kid when I got dirty my mom used to call me "brudas" or "brudasek". In modern times (like since the late 90s) it somehow "modified" its meaning to the insultive way of describing a person of darker skin (dark shade of skin ironically compared to the dirt or dust on the skin).

Why since the late 90s? Well, because racism in Poland is quite a new phenomenon. While in the USA and in the collonialist Western Europe the history of racism was like hundreds of years, in Poland it's like since the late 90s, but the situation is still a bit better than in countries like Spain, Portugal or Morocco, where Blacks are called "cockroaches", being treated as a "second-class citizens" etc. Nasty racist stuff. In Poland, a Black-skinned student for instance has lots of benefits only because he/she is Black or simply comes from a far country, i'm deadly serious right now. Polish people take much care about such people and treat them with lot of respect, indulgence and tollerance

Poles don't hate Blacks, they only don't like gays and partially also Muslims, and i TRUELY HATE when people CONFUSE homophobia and islamophobia with racism!!! it's not the same thing! Hating gays and Muslims is not based on their racial origin, it's about who they are inside, not outside! It's like assuming that a person who hates golf, also hates basketball for sure, and probably doesn't like sport at all.

An interesting and an exclusive case are the Gypsies. Polish people have much distrust for the Gypsies and vice versa, Gypsies don't trust Poles (which doesn't mean hate!). It's not racism, as racism is hatered without a reason (when the only "reason" is the person's race or skin color - the appearance). Poles have a reason, as there are too many bad situations and numerous violent incidents involving the Gypsies, too many stereotypes that you wouldn't like to believe in turning out to be true. The main factor however is their strong will of isolation from the Poles - they don't accept mixed marriages with Poles, don't accept sending kids to school, have very few or no Polish friends, don't want to have regular jobs etc. When a minority keeps up the isolation, there always will be many acts of violence and misunderstanding. All ethnicities must learn to live together! I don't blame the Gypsies for that, neither the Poles. Gypsies are raised like that, their culture wants them not to trust any other ethnic group, while Poles during the centurues were the most tollerant nation in Europe, and so, they tried to reach out a friendly hand to the Gypsies, tried to help them to assimilate with the society, but you know, you won't win with the culture and tradition.

I might say that some singular racist incidents that happen on the streets in the late-night hours could happen also to an ethnic Pole, but then the "racist" badge can't be added to that situation, it would be simple a "robbery" or "street fight". So basically, during the night time, there there can be someone who's searching for additional emotions, and if you're in the wrong place and at the wrong time, you're very unlucky, but this could happen to you everywhere in the world. Racism might be just an additional thing. Poland is not the exception, in fact, I don't know even one incident in which a Black person or a "person of color" was heavily beaten or killed on the street for his racial origin. The only openly racist incidents involving some slogans can be rarely seen on the stadiums, but you know, there is some racist scum in every country in the world. You can not name me one country that would be racism-free. Here I must note, that the situation in Poland is the opposite than in the US, while it is claimed that American farmers are racist (usually associated with the rednecks from the southerns states, Jim Crow etc), now in Poland on the other hand, it is much less likely to meet a racist person among the farmers than among the people from the city. Polish farmers don't know what's racism, and if they atare at a Black or Asian person, it's of curiousity, for real. It's like Black people from the African village staring at a White person. Same sh*t here.

So, back to the word "Murzyn" - it has totally neutral origin, it was simply used to describe a person of African ethnicity and/or belonging to the Black race, but nowadays the media and foreigners make a big deal about it and search for some racist connotations. So I would say that today the word "Murzyn" is the equivallent of the word "Negro" in the 1960s and 1970s USA when it was still neutral, even used in the media and by politicians.

The only controversy is a term "biały Murzyn" (white Negro) which might indicate that the word "Murzyn" also means "a slave". It basically describes a person who works very hard for very little money. Poles often use this term to describe themselves, as they are known for being the "modern day slaves", working in the UK, the Netherlands, Spain and Germany, making some hard physical work, sleeping in tents and earning a few pennies.

PS - Did you know that the word "slave" comes straight from the word "Slav" or "Slavic" because many Slavic people were slaves in the mediaeval times? It's a true fact. Oh... and Poles are an ethnically Slavic nation (so called "West Slavs").

To end my statement i will tell ya one more thing. My maternal grandpa Idzi (R.I.P.) was the Polish refugee to the United States in the late 1980s but came back (deported) to Poland in 1991. He had some far Balkan roots (from Serbia and Montenegro, also a bit of Hungarian Gypsy), but of course he was a Pole. Born here in a small village in central Poland, raised here, having the Polish mentality and good soul. In America he was doing some physical work, cleaning hotels and such, he was working with lots of Blacks and Latinos (mainly Puerto Ricans), also with a few Italians being their bosses. He said that Puerto Ricans called him a "brother" while when they met him, they thought he is Hispanic and spoke Spanish to him because of his darker skin tone. However, my grandfather sometimes reminisced about one of his friends, who was Black (African American) and, while telling me about him, my grandpa referred to him by the term "Murzyn" while he couldn't remember his name correctly. And the thing is - my grandpa was a man who had much love for all the people, was raised in the Polish village, in a religious family of simple farmers, survived the WWII (Nazi regime, being called "subhuman", whitnessing the death of his friends, being the subject of expulsion, survived the forced slave-work camp etc), and he NEVER had hate towards other people. Now, I do not imagine my grandpa using the Polish word "Afroamerykanin", which is to "sophisticated" for a simple elder Polish man and it's simply too long. He used "Murzyn" because it was the only word he knew to describe a Black person (beside of the word "czarny" of course, which literally means "black" referring to a color). For an elder Pole saying "Murzyn" is equal as saying "Arab", "Polak" (a Pole = Polish person), "Włoch" (Italian), "Hiszpan" (Spaniard), or "Anglik" (Englishman) etc. It basically describes the ethnic origin of a person, nothing more than that.

As you see, it all depends on the context. And no, it doesn't also depend on who says it, everyone can say it. Some Americans are so damn sensitive when it comes to racial topics and say that "it depends who says it", while they have this huge problem with the word "nigga". It's history is very racist (the "e.r." ending), but about 15 years ago hip-hop culture "made it cool" to say it and there is a problem while youngsters wanna "be cool". It's kinda like calling your friends the "real muthaf*ckas" without meaning that they are "motherf*ckers". Yahmsayin'... it's just the same thing.

And don't you call me a "racist" just because I speak the truth, I have many Black friends here in Poland, mostly students from many parts of the Sub-Saharan Africa. Moreover, I have some far African roots too, so I think I am quite neutral and objective.

Last words about the Polish "Murzyn": The very same situation is with the words "Cygan" (Gypsy) and "Żyd" (Jew). In the Polish language, both of these words are on the exact same level of "racial offense" as "Murzyn", and the level is rather very low. All of these three words (Cygan, Żyd, Murzyn), when said with some certain emotions and in a certain context, might be seen either as offensive or neutral, but the roots of these 3 words are COMPLETETY NEUTRAL.

. . . .



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