@Dirk diggler
Any sources?
Any sources?
Polish language would look better written in Cyrillic Script?
Dirk diggler 10 | 4452
14 Oct 2017 #122
Not that I bothered to look up hence my use of the word 'may'
Every pole knows that the Latin text has been used since the founding of the nation. If some lil group of Orthodox decided to use their native Cyrillic in one instance or othrr im not saying it never happen (like that wiki link posted earlier) but it would've been a tiny tiny minority.
Every pole knows that the Latin text has been used since the founding of the nation. If some lil group of Orthodox decided to use their native Cyrillic in one instance or othrr im not saying it never happen (like that wiki link posted earlier) but it would've been a tiny tiny minority.
@Dirk diggler
Well,
Years ago at icq I saw English in the cyrillic. That doesn't mean I would ever say the cyrillic is used for English.
The reality is that in the Middle Ages if someone was literate they would use the correct alphabet.
Well,
Years ago at icq I saw English in the cyrillic. That doesn't mean I would ever say the cyrillic is used for English.
The reality is that in the Middle Ages if someone was literate they would use the correct alphabet.
Dirk diggler 10 | 4452
14 Oct 2017 #124
@kaprys
Of course that's my point - the vast majority prolly 99.99% of poles and polish text uses Latin script not Cyrillic
Of course that's my point - the vast majority prolly 99.99% of poles and polish text uses Latin script not Cyrillic
I have never heard of any situation like this. I'm sorry, it doesn't make sense.
Do some research yourself, kaprys:-)
Do some research yourself
Share examples of Polish in cyrillic before asuming that it's happened....
What do I research? Polish was originally written in the Latin alphabet.
It's part of our identity. Period.
@mafketis
Spot on.
It's part of our identity. Period.
@mafketis
Spot on.
Vesko Vukovic - | 142
15 Oct 2017 #129
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Moravia
Poles used the Cyrillic script during the time of the Kingdom of Great Moravia ( 833 - 907 ).
Poles used the Cyrillic script during the time of the Kingdom of Great Moravia ( 833 - 907 ).
@Vesko Vukovic
That was the Glagolitic alphabet.
Also the Kingdom of Great Moravia was partly located on what is now Poland and consisted of some Slavic tribes later united to form Poland but these are different things.
That was the Glagolitic alphabet.
Also the Kingdom of Great Moravia was partly located on what is now Poland and consisted of some Slavic tribes later united to form Poland but these are different things.
Poles used the Cyrillic script during the time of the Kingdom of Great Moravia ( 833 - 907 ).
There was no Poles in 833 - 907.
Right, Vesko!
@Wulkan
I don't think there's any point of rationalising with someone who won't admit they don't know the history of Poland or the Polish language.
At that time there were only Slavic tribes living on the territory of what later became Poland. And the Kingdom of Great Moravia was rather far from Gniezno.
I don't think there's any point of rationalising with someone who won't admit they don't know the history of Poland or the Polish language.
At that time there were only Slavic tribes living on the territory of what later became Poland. And the Kingdom of Great Moravia was rather far from Gniezno.
Dirk diggler 10 | 4452
15 Oct 2017 #134
There was no Poles in 833 - 907.
Not true. Poland wasn't baptized and turned into a confederation of kingdoms of sorts under the banner of Christianity till 966. There were plenty of Polish (Lechtic) tribes and usch before that. Quite a few resisted Catholicism and remained pagan. Naturally, due to the Kievan Rus' proximity and the amber trail there would've been cross culture contact with the Orthodox neighbors to the south and east.
Of course there were Slavic tribes living in this part of Europe before but the beginning of Poland as a state is 966.
The name of the country and its people is probably derived from the name of one of the tribes - Polanie. Their lands weren't part of Great Moravia as far as I know
The name of the country and its people is probably derived from the name of one of the tribes - Polanie. Their lands weren't part of Great Moravia as far as I know
Crnogorac3 3 | 658
15 Oct 2017 #136
the Byzantine Empire and Orthodoxy.
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Madonna_of_Częstochowa
Very interesting, here is an icon of Orthodox origin that made its way from Byzantium to Częstochowa and is revered in Poland, Belarus, Ukraine and even in Russia.
youtu.be/RaQ3ijICaM8
Very few people are aware of the striking similarities between the last years of Byzantium before its downfall and the current situation in the EU.
There were plenty of Polish (Lechtic) tribes and usch before that.
Yes, there were also plenty of Neanderthals living on that land about 45.000 years ago, were they Polish too?
Dirk diggler 10 | 4452
15 Oct 2017 #138
@Wulkan
The ones who would remain and started speaking proto-Slavic languages in the future, yes I'd consider them Slavs, Sarmations, etc each of whom carved out its little territory, languages changed, etc. Were talking mainly about post collapse of ancient Rome - 2k years ago, outward spread 200-300 ad during turmoils, sacks by Goths, Visigoths, Franks, perhaps even some Slavs and East Prussian trubes, years ago, Romes gradual rebuild with Christianity (you have to remember the from the spread of Christianity even till like 100-200 ad it wasn't all that accepted. Israel was a Roman colony afterall back in Jesus' time. 1k years ago being baptism and 'formal' Poland. Not tens of thousands of years ago when people lived in Africa, caves, much in Sumer, Egypt, Iran Turkey etc. and those areas later on, etc.
The ones who would remain and started speaking proto-Slavic languages in the future, yes I'd consider them Slavs, Sarmations, etc each of whom carved out its little territory, languages changed, etc. Were talking mainly about post collapse of ancient Rome - 2k years ago, outward spread 200-300 ad during turmoils, sacks by Goths, Visigoths, Franks, perhaps even some Slavs and East Prussian trubes, years ago, Romes gradual rebuild with Christianity (you have to remember the from the spread of Christianity even till like 100-200 ad it wasn't all that accepted. Israel was a Roman colony afterall back in Jesus' time. 1k years ago being baptism and 'formal' Poland. Not tens of thousands of years ago when people lived in Africa, caves, much in Sumer, Egypt, Iran Turkey etc. and those areas later on, etc.
What seems to have been forgotten here is that the whole thread is about the alphabet - the written word.
The Middle Ages in Europe before the invention of the printing press, which marked the Renaissance, was the time when books as such were extremely rare and expensive.
Although Polish Christianity has been influenced by ancient Slavic rites, we don't know much about Slavic deities or such because of how Christianity was introduced here.
Not to mention any written Polish from the beginning of the Polish state (966) or before. And the oldest known written words in Polish are in the Latin alphabet. If you know of any earlier zabytki języka polskiego, written in any other than the Latin alphabet, it'd be best to inform historians of the Polish language.
@Crnogorac3
The story of the icon is pretty mysterious.
Still it's pretty typical for its times - churches were supposed to tell the gospel to the illiterate. Icons were 'divine'.
The Middle Ages in Europe before the invention of the printing press, which marked the Renaissance, was the time when books as such were extremely rare and expensive.
Although Polish Christianity has been influenced by ancient Slavic rites, we don't know much about Slavic deities or such because of how Christianity was introduced here.
Not to mention any written Polish from the beginning of the Polish state (966) or before. And the oldest known written words in Polish are in the Latin alphabet. If you know of any earlier zabytki języka polskiego, written in any other than the Latin alphabet, it'd be best to inform historians of the Polish language.
@Crnogorac3
The story of the icon is pretty mysterious.
Still it's pretty typical for its times - churches were supposed to tell the gospel to the illiterate. Icons were 'divine'.
The ones who would remain and started speaking proto-Slavic languages in the future, yes I'd consider them Slavs
Of course they were Slavs, but not Polish.
Dirk diggler 10 | 4452
15 Oct 2017 #141
@Wulkan
With some proto Slavs then turning into various Slav groups.. lechtites veleti etc and such into modern poles
With some proto Slavs then turning into various Slav groups.. lechtites veleti etc and such into modern poles
Yes, the turned into Poles later.
Dirk diggler 10 | 4452
16 Oct 2017 #143
@Wulkan
Exactly. Meaning cross cultural ties between the tribes and fiefdoms of pre 966 Poland and the years say plus or minus 100-200 year (kievan rus was founded before poland actually). Amber was exported from the baltic areas esp northern pl in a line running from early Russian settlement up north, through the 3 lil Baltic states, into Poland and southward onto the Kievan rus and then southward to Rome's new civilization and the Byzantine. If any sort of Cyrillic was used in Poland it would've been most likely in like a religious book, treaty, or some icon of Catholicism
Exactly. Meaning cross cultural ties between the tribes and fiefdoms of pre 966 Poland and the years say plus or minus 100-200 year (kievan rus was founded before poland actually). Amber was exported from the baltic areas esp northern pl in a line running from early Russian settlement up north, through the 3 lil Baltic states, into Poland and southward onto the Kievan rus and then southward to Rome's new civilization and the Byzantine. If any sort of Cyrillic was used in Poland it would've been most likely in like a religious book, treaty, or some icon of Catholicism
Why would the cyrillic have been used in Catholicism?
Come on, guys. We really have no evidence of that ...
Come on, guys. We really have no evidence of that ...
Dirk diggler 10 | 4452
16 Oct 2017 #145
@kaprys
The absence of evidence is not always evidence of absence.
We do know there were cultural exchanges though between those who used a Latin alphabet and those who used Cyrillic
The absence of evidence is not always evidence of absence.
We do know there were cultural exchanges though between those who used a Latin alphabet and those who used Cyrillic
The absence of evidence is not always evidence of absence.
But in this particular case.... that's the way to bet.
@Dirk diggler
I get it. But the thing is that Polish has been traditionally written in the Latin alphabet and so were the oldest known written Polish sentences and names of places. The recent discussion started when one poster claimed otherwise.
It's also part of our identity especially important during the partitions.
Church Slavonic is used by the Orthodox Church.
I get it. But the thing is that Polish has been traditionally written in the Latin alphabet and so were the oldest known written Polish sentences and names of places. The recent discussion started when one poster claimed otherwise.
It's also part of our identity especially important during the partitions.
Church Slavonic is used by the Orthodox Church.
pl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%9Awi%C4%99ta_Ewangelia
The first translation of the gospel into Polish from Church Slavonic was in 2014. They also keep to the Julian calendar unlike Catholics.
When we celebrate Epiphany they celebrate Christmas.
The first translation of the gospel into Polish from Church Slavonic was in 2014. They also keep to the Julian calendar unlike Catholics.
When we celebrate Epiphany they celebrate Christmas.
Dirk diggler 10 | 4452
16 Oct 2017 #149
But the thing is that Polish has been traditionally written in the Latin alphabet and so were the oldest known written Polish sentences.
Of course. I am agreeing with that especially due to Poles' strong historic connection to Rome which was formalized in 966 - over a thousand years ago.
Poland adopted the Latin alphabet simply to feel closer to European Catholicism.