you see it is easy to be normal and nice and to help each other with language learning instead of making cretinous sweeping comments about the language abilities of at least five nations in one breathtakingly arrogant sentence..:)
The important thing is that Atch is right about speaking English (and also that native speakers of English are no better or worse at mastering foreign languages than others).
In Poland, people often assume that you don't speak Polish and even when you address them clearly in the language, reply to you in very broken English.
And Polish isn't even that difficult for speakers of English.
Now now, Poggers. You probably haven't met many people from abroad who've lived here - some of us speak Polish all day every day (and at a far, far higher level than your English).
yes there is that problem with English. I have had the same problem in Germany as well as in Poland. You use the words that you know well enough, and suddenly you get this lip curling sneer and someone addressing you in really poor English.
It is as though they cannot stand to hear anyone speaking their language with a 'foreign' accent.
Whereas we speakers of English are more than used to hearing people mashing up our language on a daily basis, and are therefore more tolerant of it. This thread is a perfect example, esp. Poggie's last post. Poggie dear, it doesn't matter that much, as long as we can understand each other.
And frankly, everyone is always banging on about how 'hard' Polish is - my question is, have they tried learning Welsh or Irish? I doubt it somehow.
It is as though they cannot stand to hear anyone speaking their language with a 'foreign' accent.
I think it's a mix of unfamiliarity in hearing the language spoken in a different way and a kind of xenophobic nationalism, treating it like a minority ethnic language rather than one spoken by people in 4 or 5 countries. Less common now in the big cities.
some of us speak Polish all day every day (and at a far, far higher level than your English).
I am waiting to see you write here in Polish and not once (anyone can use internet translator) but few times and without delays. You talk about others but others are not here, you are, show me how well you do in Polish, it's so easy, easier than English, well, where is your example?
@Ziem; for your info, NO need to use shift, control, alt or whatever + numbers to type in French signs if French keyboard é è ù ê à ç î û ô ï ë ü....etc etc ...
Very easy on an iPad - all you do is one flick for the keyboard language in question (if you want autocorrect and just press and hold a second for the diacritics.
everyone is always banging on about how 'hard' Polish is
I don't know I'm taking their word for it. I have been always of the opinion that Polish is a really easy language to learn, it took me no effort at all.
You use the words that you know well enough, and suddenly you get this lip curling sneer and someone addressing you in really poor English.
Oh poor you, you are lucky they didn't sic the dog on you.
" Oh poor you, you are lucky they didn't sic the dog on you."
'sic (sic) the dog on me'? what on earth does that mean? But yes u are probably right, I was very lucky. Good grief how cheeky, an English person attempting another language!!
Good grief how cheeky, an English person attempting another language!!
Jeepers they attempted to talk to you in your language, what next? Are they gonne hold your hand and call you dear? How dare they? Here I was expecting VIP welcome at least for talking to them in their funny gibberish.
'sic (sic) the dog on me'? what on earth does that mean?
Set a dog on you, go for your jugular, bust you or whatnot take your pick!
@Ironside et al, judge all you like, it doesn't mean it has the slightest merit. Kindly refrain from judging my English, you and Poggy, as I would refrain from judging your Polish:-)
We learn in the translation field that ONLY a true native (at "worst" a bilingual native schooled in the target language exclusively) can translate or judge the quality/aesthetic of his or her OWN language, not a foreign-speaker not matter how well- or bad intentioned!
Bear that in mind. Remember too "Ćwiczenie czynni mistrza."
'sic (sic) the dog on me'? what on earth does that mean?
The owner of a dog (sic's) or "commands his dog to attack" you or another animal. It's used as a figure of speech in America to get another person to back off. Kinda like telling someone that you are going to set them on fire. Another way of telling someone to get out of your face. You know, same as like you are always telling people to feek off. lol
er no not really....just thinking people might act normally about it,
I understand where you coming from but you are looking at this from a wrong angle. Do you realize that you complaining about people trying to do you a favor and talk to you in your own language? Admittedly it wasn't at all what you have been expecting but tough, you gain some you lose some.
On the other side of the coin those people based their reaction on their limited experience, and that experience is telling them that 19 out of 20 Anglophones either doesn't speak their language at all or know few phrases poorly. Hence they are not wasting time listening to you botching that royalty and let you know that you can speak in your own language while asking for chips or cigarettes.
They never realized that you are an exception and you are fluent or nearly fluent in that lingo or they you would rather talk in their language cause you want to learn. Instead of blushing you should communicate to them your intent - and now you are holding a grudge and throwing chips and spilling vinegar all over helpful strangers like poor moi!
Don't set me on fire but unlike johnny reb for real.. Then maybe just maybe in the disused ten place there is something in this that people might be not use to foreigners talking to them in their language. Hell , As I said that isn't something to complain about, some things are just the way their are.
Ironside, like Poggy, Wulkan and perhaps a few others, the more exacerbated you get, the worse your English becomes:-) Ol' poggy counted ballpark 16 infractions against my Polish earlier today. I can count about the same in your English, but, 'cuz I'm in a good mood this evening, I'll let you off easy and not even mention 'em.
LOL
Apropos Polish verb aspects, I always used to think they corresponded to English tenses. Boy, was I ever wrong. Polish has to do with repeated action whereas English has to do with duration of action.
Many Poles tell me that even native speakers learning their own language in grade school sometimes write "ogurek" instead of "ogÓrek" and similar orthographic errors:-)
So Polish kids make spelling mistakes Lyzko. This might come as a surprise to you, but so do kids of every nationality ;) Not sure what point you're trying to make here.....
its fine Ironside I am used to it and don't mind. I was just making a comment. Is that OK with you or should I get permission in triplicate before posting?
" It's used as a figure of speech in America to get another person to back off. "
ooh 'sikkum' - it's international. Even my little lapdog gets excited when I say it. It's in Huck Finn as well....
It doesn't seem to be fine but that is your problem and I'm not gonna pry although I could write about chips. All I wanted to do was to help you take a look at the issue from a different angle, a different point of view, sarcasm didn't work obviously but it was me trying not to take you seriously, your own fault. :) Won't happen again.
I was just making a comment
Hey what a coincidence so was I.
Is that OK with you or should I get permission in triplicate before posting?
Imagine that I was sure we were having a friendly conversation. Did realize you are such a obedient female deeply respectful towards all males. I'm surprised that you need my permission but if you need it here it is - you have it.
Ironside
Lzyko, you are a lonely dude I get it. I grant you permission to correct all errors in my posts to your hearth content. In exchange don't address me whenever take your fancy t o write yet another of your hmm... 'original' diatribes.
the point is that Poles too make mistakes, even by native speakers of the "hardest language in the world to learn".
Still missing your point Lyzko. You were talking about grade school Polish kids making spelling mistakes. I pointed out that kids from all different countries make them too. When did anyone say that Poles don't make mistakes? Not that this is that important but i honestly don't get what you're driving at here....
The English equivalent of "pomieszkiwac" might be "to continue living for a long, long time".
I stressed to you few times now the fact that you do not have the legitimacy to pin point in the slightest what the correct grammatical form one should undertake when operating in Polish - a language you have next to zero competency in as far as written word is concerned. The equivalent of "pomieszkiwac" is not "to continue living for a long, long time", its theme is a function of living in a shelter and as such it attains qualities attributed to living under some kind roof whether it be a paper box or street pavement and the organisation related to this king of living. You have confused phrase "pozyc" or "pozyc sobie" with "pomieszkiwac", but yet you spawn theories here about my language as if you were at least a kindergarten teacher, it is a pathetic attempt to look more educated and to show by any means that you are not as bad in Polish as you claim Polish are at English, but, in fact, you are hopeless in Polish and I am about to rip into your English so you better be super good at it or I will make a little boy out of you here and I am very capable of doing it if I want to.
It'sme
To the one idiot who designed this forum: your forum rules reflect credibility of an imbecile who fails to inform suspended members as to why and what happened and will happen in relation to one's suspension.
It'sme: "its theme is a function of living in a shelter and as such it attains qualities attributed to living under some kind roof whether it be a paper box or street pavement and the organisation related to this king of living".
"Living under some kind of roof" could indded be pomieszkiwać if it is living under the shelter of a distant family or friends temporarily, for example, "pomieszkiwał kątem u znajomych" or "pomieszkiwał u rodziny w Poznaniu". But living in a paper box or on a pavement is not that, it will be: "mieszkać na ulicy". I would never describe such living as "pomieszkiwanie" and if I did, it would only be when someone lived there on and off which is really exceptional since people tend to live on the street permanently.
I bet It'sme is just another incarnation of our suspended dear friend poganin since his not too perfect English gives him right away ("to the one idiot", "forum rules reflect credibility of an imbecile" or some others).
Isn't it that
English most certainly is the hardest language in the world to learn (.....CORRECTLY!!)
Interesting theory Ziemusz but Poggy is normally more careful about his articles. As he informed us that it's the least difficult aspect of English (not for Poles it isn't) he's honour bound to watch out for that. Of course if he's upset about being suspended that would explain it. You know how when Poles get 'upset' the articles etc tend to fly out the window. That's one area where you score very strongly with English and it demonstrates the quality of your language skills.You retain control of your syntax and grammar even when you're making a point you feel strongly about - or should I say 'a point about which you feel strongly!
Which leads me on to something that non-native speakers of English have a problem with - they simply can't grasp the fact that native speakers do not use text book grammar all the time, even people with a command of standard English like the majority of posters on this forum. Perfect grammar can sound unbearably stilted and we simply choose to use the vernacular. That's why the Poggies of this world get so hot under the collar and start lecturing us about tenses etc. People like yourself not only understand but enjoy that aspect of English and I think that's one the reasons you enjoy this forum, because it is English as it is spoken and not as an academic discipline.
That's one area where you score very strongly with English and it demonstrates the quality of your language skills.
Thank you for your kind words. Nevertheless, I often struggle with English on this forum searching for proper word(s) or expression(s). And I sometimes pick the wrong one up which I realize only some time after the editing time for the post is over.
Someone said my English is stiff or something. It may be so, but you must realize that if you permanently live immersed in a Polish-speaking environment, your language will never be comparable to the language of someone who lives immersed in an English-speaking one. My spoken English is indeed very rusty simply because I don't use it. My written English is much better since I frequently use it on the PF and not only there.
You know how when Poles get 'upset' the articles etc tend to fly out the window.
Possibly true, but if you sincerely did your homework many times about the articles, it's fairly unlikely. I would compare using them to the use of a Polish verb in the męskoosobowy and niemęskoosobowy gender of the plural. A friend of mine, a long-time Russian resident in Poland who speaks perfect Polish, once failed her exam to become a European Commission interpreter from English to Polish because she said (together with several other minor mistakes) "dzieci poszli" instead of "dzieci poszły". Now, that is the kind of mistake that a native Polish speaker wouldn't make even if they were very upset. Maybe this Russian lady didn't do her homework well just as Poggy hasn't done his with the articles of English.
@its'me My translation of "pomieszkiwać" was certainly as on point as any other translation into English:-) Because our language often lacks any direct aka "literal" rendering of Polish imperfective aspects, the objection is really moot!
In German, with various inseparable prefixed verbs, there might be a parallel, though not always, and SCARCELY on a regular basis.
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