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What is your biggest problem with Polish language?


Novichok 1 | 1,894
1 Feb 2021 #121
It's weird that swear words in English sound much softer for me.

It's that damn Polish rolling r.
Lyzko 29 | 7,225
1 Feb 2021 #122
Like Italian, Spanish, and Bavarian:-)
LostSoul 3 | 84
1 Feb 2021 #123
It's that damn Polish rolling r.

True.
jon357 67 | 16,836
1 Feb 2021 #124
Italian, Spanish, and Bavarian:-)

And Scots, plus West Country English
LostSoul 3 | 84
1 Feb 2021 #125
@Lyzko
@jon357
Are you both talking about second-last syllable?
jon357 67 | 16,836
1 Feb 2021 #126
About rhoticity and the alveolar trill (as in krok) and the alveolar flap (as in który).
LostSoul 3 | 84
1 Feb 2021 #127
@jon357
I found out that Welsh is also a language with the second-last syllable stress. Well, that sort of explains, why I found every song sung in Welsh a bit "off".
jon357 67 | 16,836
1 Feb 2021 #128
Welsh poetic (and lyrical) metrics can be very complicated and unique; that does sometimes lead to a very specific sound.

With Polish, there are also unique issues, specifically about prosody; linguists are split into different camps about how to classify it. I'm in the 'third' camp; the existing terms "syllable timed" and "stress timed" aren't adequate for categorising some languages, including Polish.
Lyzko 29 | 7,225
1 Feb 2021 #129
Most Polish uninflected nouns are stressed on the first syllable, if I'm not mistaken.
LostSoul 3 | 84
1 Feb 2021 #130
With Polish, there are also unique issues

Ok, but can you be more specific about the issue you're talking about?
jon357 67 | 16,836
1 Feb 2021 #131
Polish isochrony. A decades' long debate which is still ongoing.
LostSoul 3 | 84
1 Feb 2021 #132
So, they are basically arguing about, how where the syllable stress should lie, isn't it?
In music, it should be liberal.
@jon357
jon357 67 | 16,836
1 Feb 2021 #133
basically arguing about, how where the syllable stress

More about how to classify the language. Stress-timed, syllable-timed or a third, harder to define, category that has aspects of both.

In music, it should be liberal.

Indeed it should.
mafketis 24 | 9,124
1 Feb 2021 #134
So, they are basically arguing about, how where the syllable stress should lie, isn't it?

Syllable timed - every vowel receives its full value and the time it takes to say a sentence depends on how many syllables there are

Stressed timed - unstressed vowels are severely reduced (or maybe even disappear) and the time it takes to say a sentence depends on the number of _stressed_ syllables there are.

Polish is traditionally syllable timed (with Spanish, Greek, Italian, French) English is stressed timed (along with other Germanic languages)

Sometimes different varieties of the same language differ, European Portuguese is stressed timed and Brazilian more syllable timed, Mexican Spanish is becoming more stress timed (devoicing or eliminating many unstressed syllables).

The harder to define languages have elements of both, maybe because of long and short vowels (Czech, Hungarian) or maybe because vowel reduction occurs wihtout shortening (Russian).
jon357 67 | 16,836
1 Feb 2021 #135
The harder to define languages have elements of both

Hence dozens of doctoral theses about Polish isochrony, most of them vehemently disagreeing with each other.

The jury's still out on this one.
mafketis 24 | 9,124
1 Feb 2021 #136
The jury's still out on this one.

At the phonetic level (as in measurable in a lab) there's little to no difference, but perceptually there is.

Compare Polish pronunciation of the name Biden (bajden with two clear vowels) and the American pronunciation [ˈbaɪdn] with a syllable n

english speakers speaking Polish tend to reduce some vowels too much pronouncing Marek as ['marək] instead of ['marek] (for example)
jon357 67 | 16,836
1 Feb 2021 #137
english speakers speaking Polish tend to reduce some vowels too much

Very much so. The same goes for Polish speakers when speaking English; to a British ear it can sound over-enunciated.
Novichok 1 | 1,894
1 Feb 2021 #138
My biggest problem with Polish are those weird words that look made up by old people trying to be cute. Like buziuchna, nozenka - or is it nozeczka - and s**t like this. Real fun when you have been away for a while. How about twarz and noga. Too simple? No kid has ever become a serial killer because he was not exposed to cutetalk.
Lyzko 29 | 7,225
1 Feb 2021 #139
Therefore, Poles often have a chirping quality to their English speech, partly because of the lack of a schwa [backwards "e" in the IPA] in theír language.
Novichok 1 | 1,894
1 Feb 2021 #140
Poles often have a chirping quality to their English

Poles' biggest problem with English is that they speak it only when they absolutely have to and never at home. On top of that, many translate P to E as they speak.

All that sound analysis is pure bull.
Lyzko 29 | 7,225
1 Feb 2021 #141
It's that, as with many foreigners, Poles think in their native language, but speak in English.
LostSoul 3 | 84
2 Feb 2021 #142
They speak it only when they absolutely have to and never at home

I speak English all the time, at home, because I prefer the sound of it, over Polish.
Lyzko 29 | 7,225
2 Feb 2021 #143
How then do you communicate successfully with educated English native speakers in a language not your own? Do you catch our irony, double entendre, constant puns?

An addendum, DuszaStracona. How do you know which mistakes you're making? Who corrects your English at home? :-)
LostSoul 3 | 84
2 Feb 2021 #144
DuszaStracona

It's "ZagubionaDuszyczka", actually. LOL

How then do you communicate successfully with educated English native speakers

Ordinarily.

Do you catch our irony, double entendre, constant puns?

No, because I have Aspergers. I don't catch the Polish irony, either.
Lyzko 29 | 7,225
2 Feb 2021 #145
I learned something, Thought "zgubiona
Novichok 1 | 1,894
2 Feb 2021 #146
Who corrects your English at home? :-)

Simple. Just listen to the natives and repeat. How do you think kids learn? Studying and dissecting? They have no clue what pronoun means but use them correctly.

That is why the first step upon arrival should be to avoid other immigrants - aka leaving the ghetto. That's what we did. Second step: removed Polish from our lives.

Ordinarily.

That response was as good as it gets. Like walking and biking.
mafketis 24 | 9,124
2 Feb 2021 #147
Thought "zgubiona

zgubiony = I can't find it (something physical like your phone or watch)

zagubiony = more metaphoric, someone who has lost their way, a place that can't be found etc
Novichok 1 | 1,894
2 Feb 2021 #148
zgubiony

Lost

zagubiony

Lost

How did the US manage to survive all these years without a separate word for zagubiony other than disoriented? Hmm...Maybe it's the context?
LostSoul 3 | 84
2 Feb 2021 #149
with educated English native speakers in a language not your own

Me speaking English
voca.ro/1oWw4uSh3wos
@Lyzko
Lyzko 29 | 7,225
2 Feb 2021 #150
Hair splitting, but "zgubiony" still sounds odd to my non-native Polish ears.


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