The BEST Guide to POLAND
Unanswered  |  Archives 
 
 
User: Guest

Posts by z_darius  

Joined: 18 Oct 2007 / Male ♂
Last Post: 6 Jul 2011
Threads: Total: 14 / Live: 3 / Archived: 11
Posts: Total: 3,965 / Live: 1,614 / Archived: 2,351
From: Niagara, Ontario
Speaks Polish?: Somewhat

Displayed posts: 1617 / page 8 of 54
sort: Latest first   Oldest first   |
z_darius   
14 May 2011
Love / How do Polish men feel about gender equality? [780]

But, darius z...shared bathrooms.??...ewww pleeze

Okay, perhaps I went too far here.
Despite being all for equality, I wold find it extremely hard and painful (depending on how many beers I had) to wait for my turn in some washroom , behind herds of ladies covering the previous five layers of makeup with another one and wiggling lipsticks like there were arc welding sticks meant to keep their owners mouth welded shut, but they appear to keep them welded open.

I'm sure, waiting for your turn in the said establishment can't be fun, and the whole algorithm of peeing is so different between that of a man and a woman that conflicts would inevitably ensue and lead to inequality. After all, women's bodies are far from optimal for efficient and hygienic use of a urinal.
z_darius   
13 May 2011
News / EU tribunal overrules Polish name contest in Lithuania [150]

Lithuania is a democratic country, member of the EU. The government was elected in democratic elections by democratic means.
Where does the "nazi" thing comes in?

It is irrelevant how one comes into a position of power.
Hitler was elected in democratic elections.
Then he got rid of democracy.
z_darius   
13 May 2011
Language / What I learned so far about the Polish language. [30]

Quote

Not sure I catch your drift, Darek. Not sure you caught mine either-:)

Are you subscribing to the Tower of Babel thesis, perhaps?

That was a joke. Hectic because of the nature of communication on a forum.

Either way, it's still important not to confuse Polish "studiować" with English "to study".

Definitely.
Polish "studiowac" indicates greater depth in the acquisition of knowledge, than English "study". Rounding things a little - in Poland pupils learn things first, before the are capable of studying them.
z_darius   
13 May 2011
USA, Canada / US citizenship via US Army [50]

i can think of two separate attacks on the world trade centre.

1993 was a mishap rather than an attack, but alright, make it 3.
z_darius   
13 May 2011
Language / What I learned so far about the Polish language. [30]

While "Słownik języka polskiego" from PWN is generally well esteemed, it's not official and definitions there are arbitrary.

beats a post on polishforums

In any case, Antek's definition really is the third definition given there, but I think it should beapplied carefully.

indeed, all words have to be used with care, but the position on the list doesn't mean the word's usage is an exception to a rule
z_darius   
13 May 2011
USA, Canada / US citizenship via US Army [50]

That's why it's called a sacrifice, what all those men and women are doing, for an idea of a country that very few people outside the US would understand.

You'd be surprised how far from the truth you are.
In fact the USA is one of few countries that that faced so few attacks on their soil. Two, to be exact. One almost 200 years ago, and another one (a tiny attack) about 10 years ago. So I'd say it is Americans who have little understanding of an idea of a country.

The US is the only country in the history of mankind that was established to be an empire. Being an empire entails continuous expansion and disregard for other nations. The US certainly has lived up to that ideal and sadly, continues doing so.

And that's why we owe them respect, instead of calling them fools or mercenaries and making glib jokes.

That agree with. Americans owe their troops, and some mercenaries, a lot of oil and other natural resources.
z_darius   
13 May 2011
Love / How do Polish men feel about gender equality? [780]

There are still some issues to be addressed with the terrible inequality since quite a few examples indicate that a "certain group" does not really want the true equality of genders. Some examples:

- why do the police have to send at least one female officer to an issue involving a child or a woman (domestic violence), which happens even if the violent party is the woman?

- why, in the case of a violent woman it is the man who will be escorted out of the house, while the woman will stay in?

- why is there even a right for women to chose a female doctor, border guard etc if we are really equal?
- why is it women and children first, in emergencies. I understand children, but don't women want to be equal?
- why do we have separate washrooms for men and women if women want to be equal?
- why is it that universities offer woman studies but no man studies?

Looks to me like there is still a lot of inequality going on.

And I still haven't received any answers in regards to the wonderful sisterhood's struggle to help not those women in executive positions who have to settle for a BMW 500 series instead of 700 series (poor poopsies), but to fight for those whose life are often valued lower than a life of cattle? Where are those mass marches organized by pressuring our government to help save girls in Africa and some Asian countries from genital mutilation? Where are the mass protests against girls in those areas being raped and then sentenced to death for the "offense"? I would gladly join any mass protest, sign a mass petition to Saudi Arabia's government, and send a donation to any woman's organization that is serious about help where it's truly needed.

If I could see women hit the streets in support of those issues, and in numbers just half of those who attend Oprah's show daily, I'd join in.
z_darius   
13 May 2011
News / Ruski a slur like Pollack? [53]

Iwrej

yevriej (еврей)

Ruski is considered mostly colloquial when it refers to the USSR, the Russian language, the Russian language as a teaching subject in school. Colloquial is not the same as offensive but this is open to interpretation. No hard rules.

It is the official name when speaking about the linguistic subgroup (Byelorussian, Ukrainian, Russian) or when talking about Ruthenia and some historical/geographical concepts.

It is demeaning/offensive in reference to a Russian person.
z_darius   
12 May 2011
USA, Canada / US citizenship via US Army [50]

Thanks for the answer.
It does sound very encouraging to send people to be killed then.
z_darius   
12 May 2011
Love / How do Polish men feel about gender equality? [780]

Men see these *Rights* as corresponding to a perceived diminishing of sovereignty, or as being *imposed* on *them* in some way... (on their dominion...

I can't speak for all men but I, for one, would love my wife to make twice, make it thrice as much I make, instead of about the same. I would then be able to stay at home, take care of our daughter who is 21 and sometimes at home, pet the cat, push the pre-programmed buttons on the washing machine. I would even separate whites from color before tossing the laundry in the tub.

Since I was brought up in Poland, in the terrible separation of duties at home, I would cook meals every day. After all, I had to do it regardless of what kind of pee-pee parts I have.

The above wouldn't take that much during the day so I would still climb 12 feet up the ladder to fix the damn gutter and that shingle that just keeps on flapping every time there are high winds. Having mowed the lawn, I'd go to the garage and devote myself my chauvinistic hobby of woodworking.

I'm alll not only for equality, but I'd even push for the reversal of the inequality. Hey, at least if I found myself in some kind of a disaster I would be able to follow the orders for men, children and the elderly to evacuate first. The only downside of that would be that I'm kinda sentimental about the wifey and I'd miss her terribly if it came to that, and if she had to stay behind to save the world.
z_darius   
12 May 2011
History / Why did Russia attack Poland in WW2? [178]

And we are so superior! Weaponry "Made in Germany" is best now as it was 70 years back...we have a tradition to uphold! ;)

That is not as clearcut as it may seem.

Soviet AK47 is still the most reliable banger even though the MP40 machine guns were cute. Kosovo's terrorists liked them too in late 1990's. They must have held a supply from WW2 times.

I heard that during WW2 some Soviet tanks were actually superior to some German tanks, especially the Tiger monster that would be unreliable and just impractical on a battle field. Germans also ran like cattle when Soviets shot their Katyusha artillery.
z_darius   
12 May 2011
USA, Canada / US citizenship via US Army [50]

What if the Pole is married? Will their spouse also be on the fast track to citizenship? What about their children?

This question may be further expanded by: what if the fool gets killed. Will wifey still be eligible for "stuff"?
z_darius   
12 May 2011
Love / How do Polish men feel about gender equality? [780]

"Some scholars claim that the communist experiment was nothing more than an instance of “forced emancipation” and that women’s incorporation into public life was “insincere” because it was motivated by economical interests

Experiment?
Insincere?
What kind of crap is that?
The 1zl they got paid was worth the same as 1zl men got paid.
And now look at you, trunmeting about women making less money (which are economical interests), but at the same time quoting an article stating that emancipation was insincere because it was motivated by economical interests?

Although different laws contained an explicit provision prohibiting discrimination on the basis of gender, at the same time there were legislative provisions that aimed to protect motherhood (e.g. shorter working hours, longer maternity leaves, restriction on work at nights and performing jobs involving hard manual labour).

And what's wrong with that?
Are you dying to try some work with a jack hammer breaking up concrete when to fix a road? Try it, come back and tell us how you like the job. It pays well.

While such legislation was intended as a privilege and reward for bearing children, it ensured women’s rights only through the virtue of motherhood and ended up being discriminatory.

How so?
Because it was recognized that women deserved a reward for the burden of 9 months of pregnancy and another 12 of breast feeding? Would you prefer a policy exercised in one of the Amazon tribes whereby a woman go to work almost immediately after child birth while a man would lay down on the birth bed to attract the post natal pains onto himself?

In addition, under communism, the gender-neutral stipulations in different laws (e.g. family laws) were completely absent. Fathers, for example, were not encouraged to share responsibilities for raising children and there was no official notion of the paternity leave (Paci 2002).

Another wrong point. There was much gender equality than the US has ever known. For example, after a divorce the father would certainly have to pay alimony to help finance the child(ren) but the woman had to rely on her newly found feminist freedoms, i.e. get to work, just like the man.

oh, you mean separate but equal? yeah, we tried that before...

When did you finally do some research on the biological and psychological difference between genders. WE ARE DIFFERENT. With all the equality of right, a construction contractor would be insane to hire a woman to fill, say, a mason's helper position. An average woman is simply physically weaker by 40 to 50%. Her body is not as adapted to physical effort as man's body is. Male body is usually cooler, which helps with maintaining the right body temperature in situations of physical effort. Men's pelvis allows them to walk and run faster. They were hunters. Women stayed behind. Female pelvis id much wider to allow for child birth and should it become any wider a woman would be simply unable to walk. We could go on and on.

it's like trying to explain the difference between green and red to someone who's colorblind

Based on your one sided, closed minded and militant approach to the topic at hand, I'm surprised that you acknowledge that colors even exist.
z_darius   
12 May 2011
Love / How do Polish men feel about gender equality? [780]

"End of communism hasn't helped Polish women - but there is no nostalgia"

Both show that with the coming of the blessings from the West the gender equality actually deteriorated. Actually, to the point that some Polish women, or women participating in a Polish Forum are bombarded with suggestions that Polish males should be sent to Siberia. That sort of puts the whole idea of pushing for absolute gender equality under a serious doubt.

and, from my own neck of the woods:
"Women, Minorities Largely Absent from Fortune 500 Corporate Boards"

So why not join corporations created by women for women?
z_darius   
12 May 2011
Love / How do Polish men feel about gender equality? [780]

Can you think of a family with heavily disabled child, where the man is qualified to earn money, and the wife has no profession? That's my case. You better be careful of drawing conclusions so easily.

You lost me here.
I can think of a few families like that, and I can also tell a difference between what happened in Poland and, let's say, in the US under similar circumstances. Commie had a much better support system, which is not to say life was paradise.

It is pointless to participate in a discussion with Mods taking active part in the discussion with their Move/Delete buttons. This is simply unfair.

That I happen to agree with.
z_darius   
12 May 2011
Love / How do Polish men feel about gender equality? [780]

For me, it looked like pre-1989 Poland. I wouldn't like to live in a country like that. I do not know what has changed in your country since. The only fact that matters for me we cannot sell software licenses in your country because you people steal whatever you can.

A couple things here:

- The country you saw in 2000 was the way it was because of the progressive minds of the West who decided Serbs should be punished for the sins of KLA because Serbs refused to be US ruled pawns.

- when you talk about 1989 Poland you're talking about exactly what? I thought the subject was equality of men and women. I left that country before 1989 and I don't recall any inequality in employment. Mom mom made the same money as her male peers, and a little more than some of them. Most of my teachers were females and they were good teachers. I can't recall any of them leading us all into under appreciating women. That was never a policy in the commie Poland.

Sure, the wages were shhitty, but they were equally shhitty for both men and women and that's the topic of this thread. Not the economic situation in various countries.

Individual cases of abuse happened and some women had it indeed tougher than others but I wouldn't say it was a systemic phenomenon. Those women experienced the same problems that were experienced by males considered to be chubby or sissy types. This is called bullying and it is gender neutral. In my 23 years in the Polish education system (I went to kindergarten at the age of 2) I cannot recall one single instance of women's oppression by males because of gender. I did know of such cases outside that system, and that indeed didn't look good - marriage issues typical of some couples in any country.

The only fact that matters for me we cannot sell software licenses in your country because you people steal whatever you can.

What does that have to do with feminism we are discussing here?
If we are to be fair then I'd say Serbs, Croats etc should steal as much as they can, to get back at least a tiny fraction of what has been stolen from them by the West. I look at is as poetic justice.

Since 1989 I has been able to keep my whole family as the only person working, been to great part of the world, own everything I need, am FREE and HAPPY.

So are you another one of those male chauvinists who won't let their wives work? Prepare for a backlash from our resident feminists.

It has given to your country numerous wars in the first place and made your country really backwards. Again, I can't help being frank.

But you could try to be frank - admit you have no fukcing idea what you are talking about. Under communism Yugoslavia was in one piece and there were no conflicts or wars. In fact Yugoslavia was a tourist paradise - open to the West, nice climate, spectacular scenery and above all - political stability. Killings started when Tito died, communism fell and when terrorist organizations, inspired and then aided by the US, UK and Germany started testing Serbs' patience. It worked. Serbs got pizsed off as hoped by the West and what followed was nicely twisted in the official media.

I do not criticize the Chinese system. I just describe it. Men and woman made equal. No woman I spoke about it in Poland appreciated the Chinese equality.

As mentioned before, Chinese system has nothing to do with communism or socialism. Nada. In fact, these days the US is more socialist than China.

On general note, the militant feminism failed women and men and it failed the society as a whole. I am not referring to pay equity but to reasonable division of work. We are different physically and mentally and genders do matter in certain positions and for good biological reasons. The result is that the most important social structure in society, a family, is in shambles. This is sipping through into other social structures. And Poland too, has had the misfortune to taste the latest and greatest in the perversions of feminism, along with other "blessings" of the more enlightened countries of the great West.

In my youth in Poland, if a woman wanted to have a job and earn a living for herself or to contribute to the family's income, she could and there were no problems with that. I didn't know one single employable woman without a job. Not one. Again, the money wasn't exactly great but you could live on it as any other person, including men. Now, I hear, we have young girls turning to prostitution in numbers greater than even the boldest western statistics showed during commie times.

Feminists also betrayed women they were able to turn their backs on. Where are these mass protests by feminist organizations when it comes horrific gender inequality in countries such as Saudi Arabia, Pakistan etc? Where is the mass outrage about female rape victims being punished for their misfortunes?

Perhaps, instead of beating around the bush with their, now worn out ideologies that go way beyond equality in countries where they have really few reasons to complain, the modern feminists should act where it really counts and where they are really needed, or risk further ridicule.
z_darius   
11 May 2011
Love / How do Polish men feel about gender equality? [780]

Well, nothing is theoretically stopping men from saving all the extra money they make and retiring sooner, right?

I don't think it really matters to most whether they are retired or working during those extra 5 years which men do not get to enjoy.

Thankfully, we're not in a society where an individual can readily be sacrificed for the good of the community (unless they choose to, and if they do, we call them heroes and hold them in admiration...)

I don't think society. I think much bigger. Species. And from that perspective it is perfectly fine to sacrifice an individual (as long as it is not me, of course). Nature sacrifices millions of individuals on an ongoing evolutionary basis. But even within communities, we do sacrifice individuals for various purposes such as school taxes paid by those who have no kids, or road tax by those who do not own cars. That is not the ultimate sacrifice but those occur too. How many US soldiers are have been sacrificed in the US history so far? And why?

Not knowing the details, I can't comment why there aren't many women at your place but, at the very least, if a woman does apply, I would expect she would be allowed to do so, her candidacy would be evaluated using the same criteria, she would be paid the same as her male counterparts (unless she underperforms), and she would have the same chances for promotion (again, unless she underperforms).

There is absolutely no discrimination of any kind where I work. Just remembered, they do hire Summer students for outside grounds maintenance. There was indeed one girl here once. Same jobs, same pay. She was quite physically fir and I'd say physically stronger than many male Summer fellas.

The reason there aren't any (or so few) women filling the aforementioned positions is because the work is ******. They get to work 16 hour shifts in Winters, including Christmas Day. Regular shifts during warmer months are almost perfection with all the flowers blooming and birdies yapping, except that when you have to fix a municipal drain filled with floating **** the charm is kinda gone. Digging a grave on cemetery, even with a backhoe, isn't that charming either. If you see those guys' hands, they look like 60 grit sandpaper. The work is tough and physically demanding. Few women would like to do that as the job is not very compatible with any known brand of nail polish and the scent of perfumes is soon covered by the smell of diesel (fuel, not the cologne).
z_darius   
11 May 2011
Love / How do Polish men feel about gender equality? [780]

What I'm having trouble with is, you're surely not arguing that men should be paid more because their life expectancy is shorter?

I am not, and I would even offer women better financial incentives to have kids (not necessarily with me). The reason I did the math thing above is that various forms of the word "fairness" bounced around this thread. Well, nature is not fair from our educated, human perspective, and yet it's actually not doing too bad. My view is that it is unfair that men live shorter lives, so if they make a few extra dollars is but a tiny consolation prize.

Where I work plenty of women make more than I do, although not in the same positions. We have the thing called pay equity here. There is that complicated system of who gets how much and why. Sometimes a laborer will make more than a lot of white collar, senior management employees. Come Winter they have to do snow plowing, getting up at 2am, or not going to bed at all. They get time and a half, and times two if it's weekends/holidays. And they get free clothing. Not cheap. The office gets only $250 per year for garments and such.

I have been working 8 years here and we had not even one application for the job from a woman. The work is government so there is not even a shade of an issue with hiring women for any position available. They just don't want these well paid positions and the relative job security that comes with them.
z_darius   
11 May 2011
Love / How do Polish men feel about gender equality? [780]

But you know what the catch is? After your hypothetical woman has been underpaid for 40 years (which, according to your numbers, amounts to $287,640 over the span of her career), she gets the "huge" windfall in extra retirement money of $122,500. Now, which would you rather have? $287K or $122K?

Thank you for the kind words, and let's move on:

I know what the catch is and I asked you about it. The catch is that a man lives 5 years less for the difference of $165,000 over 50 years. I'd pay that much (or $3300/year) if that bought me extra 5 years. The amount is nowadays less than the average yearly cost of gas to fill the tank of your car. Just imagine, take a subway instead of a car and get 5 more years of life. OK, 4 years, because subway tickets are not free.

In fact many people, men and women, spend much more for the extra time they hope to get, but there are no guarantees they will:

1. Intestine Transplant: $1,121,800
2. Heart Transplant: $787,700
3. Bone Marrow Transplant: $676,800
4. Lung Transplant: $657,800 double ($450,400 for single)
5. Liver Transplant: $523,400
6. Open Heart Surgery: $324,000
7. Pancreas Transplant: $275,500
8. Kidney Transplant: $259,000

Life expectancy is many is 5 to 10 years (if successful) and all the above prices exceed the $165K by far.
z_darius   
11 May 2011
Love / How do Polish men feel about gender equality? [780]

ItsAllAboutME

A quick set of calculations about the pay equity in action:

Assumptions:
1. Wage disparity - 17% so:
- man's wages = $100,000/year
- woman's wages = $83,000/year
econogirl.wordpress.com/2011/03/14/dissecting-the-gender-pay-gap
2. Life expectancy for males: 75.6
3. Life expectancy for females: 80.8 (let's make it 5 years differential)
4. A male and a female both work for 40 years and then retire at the age of 65
5. Tax payments (averages taken from here: nowandfutures.com/taxes.html) 57.7%, even though they are less for our hypothetical woman
6. Inflation rate is taken as zero since that affects both equally but makes the math simpler.
7. Retirement entitlement for both is identical, let's use 50% of the wages.
8. Both hold comparable positions and are employed by comparable employers.

The math:

A man will make $4,000,000. W woman will make $3,320,000.
The man will pay $2,308,000, the woman will pay $1,915,640, which makes for $392,360 difference over 40 years which translates into $9,809 difference per year. The take home amounts for men and women are $1,692,000 and $1,404,360 respectively - a $287,640 difference over 40 years, i.e. $7,191 per year.

A man lives 10 more years after retiring so he uses $500,000 from the taxes he paid. A woman lives 15 more years so she uses $622,500, which is $122,500 more in the money she receives during her retirement, even though she paid $392,360 less in taxes that are used to keep her going in the last 15 years of her life.

That also means that man's and woman's respective keep-in-my-pocket amounts over their lifetimes (including retirement period) are $2,192,000 and $2,026,860, i.e. $165,000, or 7.5% difference. This is $3,300 per year (considering man's 40 years of work + 10 years of life in retirement)

The overall retirement amounts show that a man will use 21.6% of what he paid into the system vs. 32.5% for the woman. There is an additional disparity equalizer based on the national scale. Since men to women ration in the US is 0.97 to 1.00 it follows that men pay even more into the system than above calculations indicate, even though they don't get to enjoy extra 5 years of life. Calculations of that would be a little too complex as they'd need to consider much more data so I'll forgo that.

Of course each of the 5 additional years of life has a value, but I won't attempt to translate it into dollars but the question just begs to be asked: would you agree to receive $3000 per year extra and then, being healthy, agree to be euthanized at the age of 75.6 years to keep up (or down) with man's average expectancy?

I'd say for the stinking $3,300 per year, men don't really get such a great deal if, in the US prices, people spend hundreds of thousands to extend their lives by a year or two.

And when we look back into biology, a 60 year old man is still capable of perpetuating the species, while a woman at the age of 60 has been biologically redundant (a burden really) for the last 10 to 15 years on average). Now, how fair is that to men, huh?

;)
z_darius   
11 May 2011
Love / How do Polish men feel about gender equality? [780]

I don't mind people smoking but the point I was making about the 50s is what people considered to be the "natural" psychology of women was, in fact, just a social construct.

I'd say that the feminist pushed things much too far even for their own benefit, and that is what is the real social construct. No human laws can decide whether a man is stronger or faster than a woman. This is decided by our biology. Again, it is 2011 and things changed not only in regards to smoking but also in the area of psychology. With the better technologies and with more knowledge the gender differences are found using scientific methods.

The social guidance you mention is not necessarily the reason for the gender differences, but rather for their reinforcement. I'm sure these differences may be mellowed down with a doze of social engineering, but again, the results of that social engineering as seen today in industrialized countries are spectacularly poor.

I won't go into defending the research done by others so I'll just link to some of it:
indiana.edu/~cogdev/labwork/toychoice.pdf
(pay special attention to the discussion of CAH levels, which cannot be changed by socialization. A fascinating article.)

Since this is a Polish forum, we may as well take a look at research results by Polish scientists, of less than a year ago.

If you're not into hard core science, as the one described in detail in the first article, take a look at this lighter version/summary of what scientists are finding out today, not in 1950's, and what fails to go unnoticed by keen observers. In that one, notice the use of the word "postfeminism" (some consider it a largely failed idea, but that's another topic).

No, but in a distorted view, like the one that criminals have, your status is pegged on a hierarchy, and you have to prove yourself to be "tough" to belong to the "inner circle." The first step is to confront your peers to establish that pecking order, and the confrontation is likely to be purely physical rather than intellectual. When it comes to pure physical strength, girls tend to lose, and aggression is still more acceptable among boys than among girls, even on the fringes. So, again, there is a social conditioning part to it.

Of course gang related activities start (usually, but not always) with the physical rather than intellectual. So far, and I'm not exactly young anymore, I haven't noticed any intellectual superiority of one gender over he other, but I did notice differences in the willingness to use force in an attempt to achieve a goal. And the fact that girls lose to boys in physical strength is just another point in case - we are different. I can think of a lot of gangs lead by skinny, physically unfit guys, but I would be hard pressed to find similar groups lead by healthy and physically fit women. OK, perhaps not a gangster in the classical sense but Ulrike Meinhof of Rote Armee Fraktion in 1970's comes to mind. She was one of the co-founders of the group, the other founders were men. Just trying to reach out to you, but that's it. Can't think of many more examples. For males.... pretty much any country abounds in examples, with the US being a particularly rich source.

Whether aggression is acceptable more in males than in females may be just a social representation of biochemistry in our brains. The biochemistry is then extended and reinforced by social views, rather then created by them so we may be trying to tamper with nature. Again, read the research above.

Now, I did notice you decided to stay away from answering my question abut the fairness of the proposed "deal" in regards to retirement. Whether you agree with the general idea of not having to work past certain age is irrelevant to the discussion since retirement sometimes is compulsory, other times it is not (depends on country , company etc) and the laws are mostly equal for both genders (with some regional exceptions). I have a few more words o write on that but it's kinda getting late and I still have to do some paid work. I'll revisit this threat more or less tomorrow.
z_darius   
10 May 2011
Love / How do Polish men feel about gender equality? [780]

First of all, I don't think anyone, including governments, should mandate a retirement age for anyone. Two, in many countries (Poland, if I'm not mistaken) women are forced/encouraged to retire sooner than men.

And that retirement age difference (wherever it is implemented) puts men in further disadvantage. However, I don't look at the retirement age as something that is a burden, but rather a blessing. Do you honestly think that your sample woman who just spent 40 years digging coal about a mile under the ground would just love to continue this till she turns 85?

I think you have a general tendency to look for a very straight line of argumentation, and avoid any questions and doubts that may arise on your way along that idealized line that supports your view/agenda. But few things, especially in extremely complex contexts such as human lives, are as simple as that. Even the question of whether retirement should be mandatory or not begs for some questions.

In today day and age the youth complains about the shortage of work. The youngsters are certainly no match to people who have held positions for a number of years and acquired a tremendous amount of knowledge and experience specific to the position, and irregardless of the gender. I know quite a few cases where people have retired (not forced into retirement though) and then, after just a few short months are rehired back as consultants to man the same positions. So now we have this person who made $100K before retirement, and now the same person, doing exactly the same job, is making $175K (former salary + the retirement money), while other still have to wait for promotion and thus cannot vacate positions that might be offered to the younger generation. Is that ideal? Or is it suicide of a society? Do you have any concept how much that costs the society to support both the unemployed (the kid) and the retired (the geezer) at the same time?

Psychology has a lot to do with social conditioning - if you teach part of the society that it's not ok to be assertive or ask directly for what you want, you're going to have that part of the society behaving in a less direct, aggressive way. Women can be as vicious as men, as soon as they realize it's ok.

I admitted that women can be vicious, even more so than men. If one example was not enough for you, I would like to encourage you to do some research on women guards in concentration camps.

However, social conditioning has only a limited impact on our psychology. I won't get deeper into that, but if you are eager to do further research on the matter why don't you check out some homosexual forums and try to convince the participants that their sexual preferences can be changed at will, given the right social context. The tell us and cite the 10 vulgarisms that were thrown at you in the course of that discussion.

The combat example is not very strong, either, because there are armies where women are at the front lines just like men, and underwear has nothing to do with it (and there are pills that eliminate the underwear issue altogether).

I am not sufficiently americanized to look for a pill every time there is a situation to be dealt with. I'm giving you generic examples showing how the genders are different by nature and you are suggesting generic drugs should be the solution.

Criminal activity might have something to do with physical strength, but I still think it's because girls are brought up in a manner that de-emphasizes standing up for yourself

Killing and stealing has now become "standing up for oneself"?
I was counting on a somewhat civilized debate with arguments that make sens, but instead I am reading nonsense. That is disappointing, considering your other valuable posts elsewhere. Still, I would not say your approach is typical of a woman, or a man for that matter.

It's all social conditioning. Did you know that before WWII male babies were dressed in pink, and female in blue, because blue was considered the "dainty" choice between the two colors? And why would someone need the "dainty" color to be assigned to girls, when male and female babies are virtually indistinguishable when it comes to appearance, behavior or social interaction?

Colors changed and the current selection is not as much social as it is commercial and was meant to standardize some choices and to underline the differfences that were there by nobody's choice but by nature.

Even though it's perfectly legal and socially acceptable, I don't see crowds women looking for steel toe boots they want to buy for themselves. Similarly, I am completely disinterested in the latest dress and perfume trends. I do admit I bough small quantities of nail polish remover because it is acetone and dissolves shellac like nothing else on the market.

I participate in two woodworking forums and there are women there too. Perhaps 10, out of about 10,000 members. I never felt tempted to check my wife's perfume forum, even though she tells me there are a few men on it. I saw a woman in a woodworking hardware store once. She was the cashier, not a shopper.

Women in the 50s were told they're BETTER OFF staying at home and taking care of the kids, because they're not cut out for the tough world out there, and that their largest accomplishment was going to be how "well" they marry. Well, apparently, time has shown a lot of us are not the withering violet type, after all.

In the 50's we were told a lot of things. Did you know that in those days more doctors smoke Camel cigarettes more than any other brand? Or that one of the main propaganda official working for the US government decided to break up the gender divide and encouraged women to smoke?

Thankfully, it's 2011 (and yes, I am a smoker)
z_darius   
10 May 2011
Love / How do Polish men feel about gender equality? [780]

It's not by choice that women lose the "seniority" battle (again, "seniority" is not relevant in non-union jobs anyway, so we're talking about a subset of jobs, not the entire job market), it's BECAUSE they stay home to take care of children, and it's BECAUSE they make less money than men in the first place. It's a catch 22.

I think you touched on the most important part of the issue. Men and women are not equal bb definition - we are different by "design", whether it is an Intelligent Design, or a quite an unintelligent one. The fact is that the social developments became out of sync with the biology and psychology of both genders. Don't worry, men are becoming more feminized (Japan is prime example) but that doesn't necessarily mean that women are becoming more masculine, or that either would be good.

The fact that women get pregnant is definitely putting them in a biologically disadvantaged situation, so various societies came up with various equalizing schemes - such as maternity leaves, and even paternity leaves if a woman decides her career is more beneficial to the family. But one important issue is not even being looked at, let alone being addressed - men, on average, die at younger age than women by 10 years. If a woman had, say 4 or 5 kids in sequence, with a 2 year period of maternity leave for each then I'd say the time of those 8 to 10 years, that would hold a woman back from pursuing a career, would be a fair deal. After all, what mother wouldn't rather spend time with her kids rather than with other miners down a coal mine shaft?

A person who lives 10 years longer has obviously a longer time to climb that elusive career ladder. That's unfair to men. The 4 to 5 children per woman in developed societies (those in which the burden of pregnancy is alleviated by laws) is far from reality though. One or two kids, if any at all, is more likely. So here is my proposal to further equalize the gender gap:

A man, due to his shorter life, would retire at the age of 55, while a woman would do so 10 years later, at the age of 65. If a woman bears children then she should retire sooner, two years sooner for each child she gives birth to. What's your take?

Now let's take psychology. It is more natural for men to pursue certain careers/professions simply because of the psychological predisposition. There surely are women who would be equal in their vicious ways to their male equivalents (for instance Hillary Clinton) but the general trend is such that women are more likely to (metaphorically speaking ) sniff flowers than men do. On the other hand, men are more likely to have an easier time to spend a month in the same underpants (unwashed) than a woman in situations such as... oh... I dunno ... extended combat operation?

If this is not convincing then look at a glaring example of criminal gangs. There is certainly no discrimination in this area of human activity as it is illegal for both genders to pursue the career. And yet, with all the freedom of defacto choice women enjoy, extremely few choose to be drug dealers, hit(wo)men or assassins. Doesn't that tell us a lot about psychological differences? And that's only one example and, I'm sure, just a tip of the iceberg.

I have no problem with gender equality when it comes to pay and rights, but even women like you need to come down, touch the solid ground, and realize that we are creations of nature and there is only so much we can cheat nature out of without consequences. One of those is already obvious though - some societies are dying out because careers take over and the interest of the species is put on the back burner. More and more often, that burner never sees the light of a flame.
z_darius   
10 May 2011
Love / How do Polish men feel about gender equality? [780]

so raising children is not work? i expect you, zimmy you stay at home with your newborn, so your wife can to the "real" job out there... lol

I'm sure zimmy would stay home and take care of a newborn if only his lactating faculties were a little better
z_darius   
10 May 2011
Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]

The problem is: If one wants to learn English from a native speaker, ask yourself a question from what country/region ;-) I once was trained by a Scouser who admitted himself English was his second language. I was getting maximum 40% of what he was saying ;-)

That's the point many so called "native speakers" of English cannot understand.

A funny example:
..
z_darius   
9 May 2011
Love / How do Polish men feel about gender equality? [780]

But I'm thinking that this may be a cultural diffenrence. We have talked a bit about this and from what I'm hearing Poland isn't very ground breaking when it comes to equality in any forms (gender, sexual orientation, different religions etc.).

Actually, Poland was the first country in the world where women could participate in political life, if they paid taxes (18th century). Poland was the first (and for a few centuries, the only) country in Europe that invited people of various religious denominations to live, prosper and it protected them from discrimination. In 1932 Poland codified the homosexual and heterosexual age of consent equally at 15 and that was 36 years before Norway decriminalized homosexuality.

Unlike Norwegian law, Polish law had never criminalized homosexuality, although occupying powers had outlawed it in 1835. Women in Poland has always had an equal access to education and in 1808 Poles established a central supervisory board of women, whose function was to administer programs of education for girls in the Dutch of Warsaw. That was the first time in the world's history when women were charged with a task of governmental administration. I'd say these were groundbreaking, but I don't blame you for not knowing, but now you do.

I wouldn't say the gender difference are completely off the table in any country. After all that equality is codified but, let's say, eye color is not. Norwegians don't discuss equal opportunities for blue eyed or green eyed persons but they do mention the wonderful gender equality. Why's that? Is the gender equality indeed that deeply engrained in the Norwegian society if the laws have to exist to address the issue, but there are no laws making people of various eye colors equal?

Some individuals may have issues with gender under various circumstances, but talking about them in the context of the entire country of Poland is a little far fetched, to say the least.

Perhaps you are approaching the whole issue from the wrong angle and perhaps the issue is not gender by the usual micro-politics on a job site, or at any work place for that matter. I ran a construction business and I employed Poles, among others. I experienced exactly the same issues as you mention and I dealt with them with the time proven solution. I was open to constructive suggestions but ultimately I managed the jobs they performed the work as instructed. A skillful manager can be put the idea in employees' minds without confrontational undertones.