USA, Canada / Polack/American Polonia/Plastic Pole "culture" [568]

delphiandomine. It is good to see that you basically like the people in Poland and even the Polonia in other places. However, I have a hard time understanding why you would get so riled up about the Polonia in America. Maybe you have encountered a few jerks on this board or elsewhere. Is it really possible that all the people of Polish descent in America are so terrible that you angrily ask why anybody would put up with them?

I am no expert, but know that many immigrants that came to the USA around the turn of the century had their names mis-spelled and mis-pronounced. They may have shrugged their shoulders and accepted it or might not have been able to read. Their children wanting to be Americans would accept the americanized version of the name.

If you have ever done any genealogy, you may already know that surnames are of relatively recent vintage. When you look at the available records, the names are usually spelled and sometimes pronoucned in a variety of ways. Especially if there were occupying nations. So, if someone pronounces a Polish name the way an American would say it, that is the progression of languages and names. Language is a living thing.

Same thing with "false friends". A recent discussion on here shows that Russian and Polish as well as some Swedish and German words have some common origins. They may be pronounced the same, and spelled the same, but have slightly different meanings. Or they may be spelled a bit different or pronounced differently, but have basically the same or related meaning. That is just what happens when people leave one area and then develop new ways of using words. I find it interesting, not something to be angry about.

Even in England, with the invasions of the Angles, Saxons, Normans and other tribes, many names changed, words developed new meanings and new ways of saying the words. English, and most of the Germanic languages have their common origins. With migration, the language changed, and developed into new languages.

So, why expect that people of Polish descent will be able to preserve exactly Polish as it is spoken in Poland? Maybe they will keep some words frozen in time from when their ancestors came to this country. Maybe they will apply English rules to Polish words and make a nightmare out of it. No one does these things out of spite or malice. I am sure if you came to America and met some of Polish descent, you would also find many people you would like despite their imperfect knowledge.

PS. I never used Busha....I used Babćia. However, to make it sound more loving and sweet, I used an English ending. Had no idea I was doing it, but many in America say it like Bob-chee. Think of dog vs. doggy. Jim vs. Jimmy. We most likely took the right word and changed the ending more like it would be in English.

Language / Some Ideas for a band name using the Polish language? [94]

Thanks strzyga! I am now proud of my "plastic" ear! As long as no one tells me I have a "tin" ear....(an idiom for no sense of music). :-)

Language / Some Ideas for a band name using the Polish language? [94]

strzyga. Thanks for the grammatical help! I also like your suggestions! Great names. You may be right about Teffle's preference for hard consonants. I favor them, too.

Teffle. Glad you like my suggestion. We're all excited about being part of the creative process! :-)

Language / Some Ideas for a band name using the Polish language? [94]

Thanks, guesswho, I am playing a bit. :-)

And attempting to come up with a name that sounds cool to Teffle and meets his criteria of no special Polish characters, or combinations of letters that would be difficult for an English speaker.

I know there are those who could do better, but I love the idea of helping an aspiring musician!

Language / Some Ideas for a band name using the Polish language? [94]

Hi Teffle!

You mentioned you liked Centrum, and later you also liked the word Fabryka.

I am a "plastic pole", but got the bright idea if you like both words, how about Centrum Fabryki? (Factory Center).

Would it be grammatically correct to also say Centrum Fabryka? I think that has a better sound. Or would that be a woman's factory center?

P.S. If McCoy were around, I have a feeling he would have some cool words for you, especially since he is very up on Polish and most other music.

USA, Canada / Polack/American Polonia/Plastic Pole "culture" [568]

delphiandomine has managed to make us fight about who did more to free Poland. He may not be a troll, but his thread has had the result of a troll. Division. I feel sorry that he is so upset about those in Polonia.

People in America who have descended from those of Polish ethnicity (which takes into account Poland during the partitions, and Poland as a country) may make mistakes and not know everything about Poland, but if their heart is with Poland, what difference does it make. They mean no harm. They have no desire to upset delphiandomine.

They are here to learn and so maybe the Poles on here can help them to understand what Poland is like now, not when their great-grandparents came to the USA. They may say Busha, and when a Pole tells them the correct word in usage now, they may learn. Maybe it needs to be repeated. But, it should be flattering that the "plastic pole" cares. It has been generations removed since his ancestors arrived, but he still cares. Most people removed a few generations no longer can speak in the ethnic tongue. Will they learn to speak Polish? Probably not. But they may learn a lot about their heritage. How would they do this if the mother country hates them.

My Polish ancestors came to America during the partitions and were listed as Germans. So, no I could never be considered Polish or claim citizenship through them. Oddly enough, my ethnic German grandfather was a Polish citizen in 1928, and although my mother was born in the USA in 1921, I might actually have some basis to claim Polish citizenship but through my German lineage! If I got citizenship, I could move to Poland. I've thought about it. I've been to Poland three times, and love the country. I love the people. So, my message to delphiandomine is to be more accepting. One never knows who could really be Polish and who is not. And why should it matter. It's where the heart is.

Love / Filipina married a Polish man, need more advice [90]

Point is that she did not know he was married when she fell in love with this man. So, she is not guilty of doing what you, Meagan say she has done. She became involved with him and then found out he was married with a family. Now he says he divorced and wants to marry her. It seems she wants to believe him, but knows it may not work out the way he says, or they way she hopes.

She wanted some advice to see if anyone had something encouraging or some warning. Posters who have advised her that he is stringing her along are probably correct. Time will tell...but OP seems like a sweet person, so I hope people stop being so mean spirited to her. Just my two cents.

History / Vilamovian language - now that's something interesting [24]

Really? Had not seen those threads, but did notice this one.

So, I am happy McCoy posted. Maybe they will merge them someday. :-)

Yes, I was surprised to also learn that that Scot dialect is also I believe a low German derivative. There was so much trade going on between all these areas and the low German language of the Hanseatic Trade League was used a lot like English is today.

History / Vilamovian language - now that's something interesting [24]

Turns out my "so-called" Germans are also mainly Frisian, Dutch and Flemish. They were from the Russian partition, but had been in the Gdańsk area and moved down the Vistula. They were invited to Poland by the nobles to help reclaim swampy land. They were first subjects of Prussia, then Poland and then Russia.

Their language was similar to this one. Like Vilamovian, it is also almost a dead language. It was called Niederung Platt and it turns out that when they were expelled to Germany, they could understand the Flemish housekeeper perfectly. They no longer had their records from 300 years back, but the oral history said they were of Dutch origins. I really enjoy learning about languages and how they developed. Thanks for posting.

History / Life in Partitioned Poland (Specifically in the Prussian Partition) [118]

Yes, MartAnthony, and with so many children born to families back then dividing up farms became increasingly impossible. It would be great to have that opportunity of new land.

History / Life in Partitioned Poland (Specifically in the Prussian Partition) [118]

My Polish great-grandparents who were married in Gniezno (Prussian-Poland) in 1880, emigrated to America a few months after their marriage. Upon learning about the Germanization of Poles in Prussia, I tended to assume it played a major role in their departure. However, I have no knowledge of exactly why they left.

A few years later, my great-grandmother's father came to live with them. He was a retired blacksmith. The wedding took place in a cathedral built in the middle ages and indicated to me that they were possibly fairly well off. Yet, I also know that many Poles who emigrated to the USA in this time period left because they were poor, and wanted to do better in America.

Like most Poles of that time period, my great-grandfather became a skilled worker. He was a machinist. His wife cleaned houses along with my grandmother, and they put my grandmother's brother through college.

And surprisingly, my Polish grandmother with Prussian roots, married an ethnic German from Russian-Poland!

News / DSZ in Poland: Desperate German attempt to improve their genepool. [20]

Wait for BB to hear this! :-D

Genealogy / Manko, Federowicz, Baszczek, Zatwarnicka. Family history mystery. [36]

The quote refers to Skalat, as being part of Ukraine, but mentions your village in passing. It may or may not be in the Ukraine. It is apparently nearby though. If you google the name of the village you can find the entire article and read it and get a better idea. I did not have the time, but was pleased to see that there were references to your village online.

I am sure you will find more. Google is your friend. :-)

Genealogy / Manko, Federowicz, Baszczek, Zatwarnicka. Family history mystery. [36]

Have you googled the name Podwolczyska? I found a few things one of which:

Skalat, Ukraine (Pages 1-9)
It passes through Podwolczyska, Tarnorude and many other villages. The town Skalat, in the Tarnopol district of Galicia, formerly part of Poland, ...
jewishgen.org/yizkor/skalat1/ska001.html - Cached

History / German cemeteries in Wroclaw [17]

Thanks BB....I visited many cemeteries in central Poland this past June/July. My guides were two young Polish people who have contributed countless hours of time and labor. Anna and Tomasz. There will be a link posted below to tell you more about them.

If you saw the cemeteries beforehand, you would hardly know anything was there. All brush, trees, and broken stones. Anna just graduated from university and will teach the history of ethnic Germans in the Toruń area. Tomasz is still in high school. Mr. Arak Fiszer is in the midst of restoring the Michałki cemetery (near Rypin), where many of his and my ancestors are buried.

I visited the rural cemetery in Kleszczyn which is still overgrown, but now has a memorial by the old entrance to mark the spot. We parted the brush and trees and explored and I did a grave etching of one of my ancestors. I feel such gratitude for what these young people have already done and continue to do. After the graves are restored, a high school adopts the cemetery to keep it maintained. All over Poland I saw more and more people wanting to leave the past behind and be friends. As I've said before, being half Polish and half German this means a lot to me. I love Poland. And am so proud of how she has survived and what the future will bring. Anyway, here's the link. The website is in both German and English. Chose either:

upstreamvistula.org/Cemeteries/Cemeteries_Others.htm

History / Poland - problem for Germany? (historically continual hostility of German state on Poland) [154]

Thanks Ironside and Bratwurst Boy! :-)

Oh, and here is the cool thing that Poland is doing! It is happening all over Poland.
When I went there this summer, I was so touched!

History / Poland - problem for Germany? (historically continual hostility of German state on Poland) [154]

People can also partly agree with Steinbach. I am Polish on my mother's side and expellee German on my father's side. So, obviously I have no beef with either the Poles or the Germans. In fact, I feel happiest when I see the past put where it belongs, and the two countries getting along well.

It makes me feel terrible to see either of the two groups of people picking on each other. My heart bleeds for the suffering that Poles experienced in WWII, and for all the partitions that wiped Poland off the map. Yet, I can also sympathize with people who had to leave their homeland. I do know that it was not the fault of Poland, the big powers made the decision.

Sadly, many of the expellees were not those who were sent into Poland during the occupation of WWII, but simple farmers who had lived in Poland for hundreds of years. They had nothing in common with Germany, other than German ancestry from 250 years earlier. When they got to Germany, it was a foreign land where they were often called Pollacks. Yet because of the war, in Poland they were considered Krauts.

My father's cousin is 90 years old now and lives in Germany. For most of her life, she missed home. Home for her was Poland. It has only been recently that she stopped missing the house she was born in. I did not know her growing up, the family was very split up after the war. Through my interest in genealogy I was able to find living family in both Poland and Germany and have been able to get an update on what happened to my father's family that were expelled.

(My grandmother came to the USA before the first world war, so it did not effect my father, his mother or me.) But my grandmother's siblings went through hell that they did not bring on themselves. They were the victims of the war just as much as Polish victims of war. Nevertheless, I am not excusing Hitler in anyway. The volume of suffering he brought is unmatched. Besides Polish and Jewish suffering, he also brought suffering to 12 million ethnic Germans in Russia, Poland, Czech lands and other places east of Germany. In my mind there is nothing wrong with acknowledging the suffering of all the people during those awful times.

One of my grandmother's sisters refused to flee in 1945 and her family attempted to stay as Polish citizens. Out of a family of seven, only two remained alive. My father's living 90 year old cousin says that the horrors of WWII for both Poles and ethnic Germans were unspeakable. She cannot tell me of it other than that. And when I had a Polish boyfriend, his family had also horrible stories of what happened to their grandparents, uncles and other family. Maybe all of us should feel sympathy for what happened to all of the people back then. BUT.....

as has been said on other threads, most people alive now had little to do with what happened then. Acknowledge that people suffered, but train yourself to avoid bringing the past suffering into present day relations. To do that only encourages problems in the future and the possibility of more suffering.

History / Dutchmen in Polish history ! [17]


holland.org.pl/art.php?kat=art&dzial=maz&lang=en&id=pref

History / Dutchmen in Polish history ! [17]

Many Dutchmen came to the Gdańsk delta area to help control the waters as they did in their homeland. They established by invitation of Polish nobles, Oleander villages.

holland.org.pl/art.php?kat=art&dzial=polska&id=5&lang=en

Travel / Poland-My 9-day experience [239]

Everyone is entitled to their opinions especially if they mean no harm, and it is simply their opinion. I got back from Poland the beginning of July. It was my third trip. Twenty years ago, a friend who was born in Gdańsk showed me pictures of Poland and I was unimpressed. But now, I see the beauty of the architecture.

And on this third trip, I did not even go to the main tourist places, I went to all the villages where my grandparents and their ancestors had lived. I visited old abandoned cemeteries, beautiful churches, ruined castles, but not where everyone else goes. One castle had next to nothing left of it and was located in Bobrowniki on the Vistula river. To me Poland is a mix of the ancient, old and very modern. The people were open and friendly. Possibly because I was interested in them and showed how much I liked Poland, I was made to feel right at home. When I asked directions outside one house, I was invited in for water and the wife set out coffee, tea and wine. Everywhere we went the Polish people were proud to show me their homes, villages.

The owner of the hotel where we stayed for four days even gave me a bottle of vodka to take home. Amazing guest services! We were looking for graves of ancestors one evening and a boy of fifteen showed up to visit his grandmother's grave. How often do you see something like that in other countries.

I found where my grandmother lived on a farm before coming to NY. It was beautiful. Rolling hills, fields of rye, and glacial lakes. I thought my photos would not be exciting to my co-workers as I did not go to Krakow or Gdańsk this time. But, they thought I had a unique vacation and loved my pictures of the villages. My experiences in Poland were of a personal nature, but other people appreciated it too. We all have opinions. In general though, if you go anywhere with joy and appreciation in your heart, you are apt to have a better experience.

Food / What's your favorite Polish coffee? [73]

I just got back from Poland a few weeks ago and many people were kind and invited me in for coffee. For the most part, it was ground in the cup with boiling water on it....or so it seemed. It was strong and kind of gritty.

At the breakfast there was a choice I believe between Gold Blend and Nescafe.

I thought the long coffee packets available in stores containing plain instant coffee, (real skinny packet), coffee with creamer, and coffee with sugar and creamer were cute.

In America, our packages tend to be boxier and I notice the coffee packets long and skinny and all the water and juice bottles were narrow and taller, too.

Travel / what are the average fares to Poland from USA? [10]

Yeah, ten years ago, I flew round trip from Newark to Warsaw for about $700. This time, I flew from Myrtle Beach, to Charlotte, NC, to JFK in New York and then LOT and I paid $1,500 round trip even booking in advance.

But it was worth every penny. I had the best trip ever. Found where my grandmother's farm was before she emigrated to the USA and met distant relatives. Visited all the villages I've learned about through my genealogy, and went to the archives to get more birth, marriages and death certificates.

Even did a tomb etching to bring home a grave marker of a great great Uncle. Met wonderful people, full of hospitality and came home so very happy.

Genealogy / KRUSZYŃSKI: Looking for a Parish resource [6]

Here's something....

rootsweb.ancestry.com/~polwgw/polandarchives.html#micro

History / Slavic vs Germanic thinking.... and the philosophical differences [251]

Well, whatever Wanda did or did not do....my Babcia did marry a Teuton!

Joanna Lewandowska oo Eduard Schmidt.
And so, here I am all mixed up! LOL

History / Slavic vs Germanic thinking.... and the philosophical differences [251]

Of course, I am an American, but I kind of have an idea about Polish and German thinking. Like everyone else, I have two grandmothers. But, one was Polish and the other one was German.

Of course anything I could say would be based on just those two instances. I will say that my Polish babcia was the most generous woman I've ever met. She did go by guest in house, God in house. Anyone who came around got fed whether there was much food or not. Everyone was welcome.

My German Nana was thrifty, and orderly. She loved her family of course, but was less demonstrative. From what I've read of Prussian virtues, she was a good example.

News / Germany - We won't let Poland drown! [28]

I see your point. People who get helped too much become resentful or develop helpless mentality. But mutual help is a good thing. Poland can help her neighbors too. It can be a two way street, yes?

News / Germany - We won't let Poland drown! [28]

O.K. Why is it sad they are getting help? You want them to suffer in the floods?

News / Germany - We won't let Poland drown! [28]

That is so wonderful that Poland is receiving help. I am due to land in Warsaw on June 21st and have been worried about Poland, and about what I will find on my trip.

Travel / WHAT TO WEAR END OF JUNE FIRST WEEKS OF JULY IN WARSAW [25]

Good luck with your genealogical research! I am also coming to Poland in exactly two weeks and I am mega excited! I've been to Poland twice before, once during the same time of the year, and what you described seemed to be comfortable. I had nights where it was chilly, and some days it was quite hot.

I am going to fly into Warsaw on July 21st and then drive to the Włocławek branch of Poland's Archives. I will not tour the popular places this time, but go see my family's ancestral villages as well as visit cemeteries.

News / Potheads attack police in Warsaw [40]

mj is psychologically addictive, not addictive chemically.