News / There is no Poland without the Church! [178]

History has shown that Poland is the strongest when it's people were more conected with God. Personally I believe that the church as an institution is corrupt,

but when the Poles were being killed by invaders, when our churches were being burned by the armies of other faiths we flocked to our faith. The church in poland took a different shape than the churches of other nations because we were persecuted many times for our faith, by the protestant swedes, the Muslim tatars, the orthodox czars and later, the aiethist communists.

Whenever poland went through times of prosperity we became corrupt, our szlachta fought amongst ourselves and the church became a political tool. Whenever poland was conquered and destroyed, we flocked to our faith in God and became stronger as a nation. Thus, Poland does not need the Vatican or the often corrupt catholic church, poland needs it's people to turn to God in a genuine way. Some of the greatest poles, such as the late pope Karol wotyła Jerzy popiełuszko and so forth had a personal and sincere relationship with christ and suffered for it.

The reason why young poles are leaving the faith is because while the church has great influence over the state, it is loosing it's connection with society and with the people. In order for the faith to revive in poland the corrupt priests and clergy mus be removed and the faith must connect with the average person. It is only by Christ that poland is strong, and if we let that go, then we will become morally rotten and we will loose what makes poland, poland.

History / Lech Walesa - Happy Birthday! [21]

Yes, Lech Wałęsa appears to be this great
hero who led the solidarność movement but he was also extremely corrupt.
If it was not for some of his underlings, the movement probably would have been stunted from the beginning.
When the labouers of the lenin shipyards in gdansk were given their working demands lech decided to end the strike.
This would have abandoned the strikers in other shipyards and factories across poland, allowing the authorities to shut them down and destroy solidarność in the cradle.

It was only by the intervention of Alina Pienkowska and Anna Walentynowicz that the strike continued and grew when they shut the gates and persuaded the workers to keep up the strike.

This is one example of lechs somewhat slippery track record. Historical idealism shows him as a shining hero, the facts show a more fallible man who might even have been a communist double agent.

Life / Why Do You Love Poland? [907]

Well yeah, you are right that I don't live in Poland currently I will not deny it.
I have spent a large portion of life in Poland and I know Poland is far from a perfect country, and I said it in what I wrote.

Personal I believe Poland has horrible government and many other problems.
And believe me, I know tons of fellow poles and while most of them are good people, there is plenty of bad as well.
I now the two sides of Poland ( every country has its problems and it's shortcomings)
I put my love for Poland in more poetic and romantic terms because I wanted to high light the things I loved the most. In the end, government and individual people or art culture or food culture don't matter to me because I love Poland in a deep sense.

I love it for its wonderful history and culture, and it is my home, because home is where family is.
Happy talking:)

Life / Why Do You Love Poland? [907]

I love Poland because my beloved family and my roots are there. I love poland not because we have good food or nice buildings( we do actually)but because of our history and our spirit.

There is a sense of freedom and lightness every time I'm in poland, I sense that I am truely at home.
I am a romantic, I love our polish story.
I can feel Poland through music every time I listen to chopin or Michał Oginski polonaise.
I always think of our country side.
In my mind I see our deep green forests, our wide open feilds and our high tatra.
We poles are not perfect, we have fallen and we have made many mistakes.
But what I love about poland the most is that for every 1000 feet we fall, we rise 2000. To me, it is the failures and the pain of poland that has made her great, it is our blood and sweat and tears that have given us our unique spirit. We have survived countless enemies, and we still have our launguage and our faith.

We poles have suffered more than most, we've seen our land split and broken, but through each calamity we pulled together and united in our churches, our traditions and our launguage.

Then on top of this I remember my Babcia, living in Poland. I can see her now working in her small garden picking berries and apples from her plants. I feel her motherly warmth and affection, and I love her and miss her very much.

I just love poland with all of my heart:)

Genealogy / THE MEANING AND RESEARCH OF MY POLISH LAST NAME, SURNAME? [4500]

Dziękuje Polonius. You are a great help.:)
Are you sure about Sacha being of germanic origin?

History / Differences between Poland and Russia [43]

Yes Vlad, there are historical exceptions, but in general Russia has been under harsh autocratic rule for hundreds of years.
You cite Catherine the great as an enlightened ruler, and I tend to think the opposite. Catherine enslaved many various people's and conquered their countries. The most notable of them the poles. Thousands of poles , Ukrainians( and Russians as well )were sent to Siberia by these so called enlightened European czars . Putting a timber wolf in sheep's clothing does not make it a sheep.

While serfdom was abolished in Russia, the state of the russian peasant barley improved. Russian peasants were kept uneducated, in their social classes and still had to endure terrible hardships.

Much of the westernization of Russia you are talking about was confined to large cities and nobility. The effects of the 'Tartar' yoke still did not wash away from its society just because the nobility learned to speak French and started to wear powdered wigs.

As for communism, noticed I said general russian acceptance for communism. I should have made myself a bit clearer.
I believe many Russians secretly disliked communism but were kept in check by fear.
Because Russians have lived for so long under the rule of oppressive internal and external forces they have learned how to silently bear the pain and oppression and hold in their emotions. This got worse under the decades of communism when if you would utter one word against the regime you would be sent to gulag for 10 years. Thus, Russians have learned how to bear the load of oppression by accepting it and rarely revolting.

This is different in Poland were we have a general aversion to central authority and autocracy. Not only poles resisted Russia, Germany and others during our long history, but also had the unfortunate habit of fighting amongst ourselves during peace time. This is very evident in the times of the Commonwealth when the szlachta would occasionally go against the monarch if they thought there rights would be taken away.

One must also remember that some of the first cracks in the communist system originated in Poland with solidarność.

Vlad, as a pole, I have nothing against Russians, I have a few russian friends. There are some aspects of russian culture I find likable. Your music is amazing:). I am not grateful of the treatment they gave us poles but I have come to realize that Russians were even more oppressed by there dictators than we were.

Genealogy / THE MEANING AND RESEARCH OF MY POLISH LAST NAME, SURNAME? [4500]

How about the name origins of these other names in my family tree
Bunar
Franczyk
Sacha
Korman
Wąs
Kuma
Dziękuje:)

History / Poland must get back Lwow, Wilno and Brest back [318]

While I consider lwow and wilno centers of polish culture, it would be counter productive to cede them back to poland. I am a polish patriot but this would only cause division with our nieghbors, and strengthen russia. If russia ever says out of its live and generosity it wants to give lwow back to poland beware. It is a russian plot to divide us against our ukrainIan and Lithuanian brothers (no matter how hard our mutual histories are) so putin can kill us one by one

History / Differences between Poland and Russia [43]

While poland and russia have a common ethnic origin due to our slavic ancestry, no two countries could be more different

1-Polish launguage is west slavic, Russian is east slavic. They are similar, yet very different. Ukrainian is closer to Polish.

2- Poland is Catholic and Russia is Orthodox

3- Separate histories. While Poland had early contacts with the keivan rus of ukraine, contacts with moscow and russia properating were not extensive until later history due to the Mongol domination.

4-Devolped under different cultural spheres

5-Russia is a autocratic society of no freedom, Poland was based on freedom (at least for the szlachta)

6- Russian exeptence to unjust domination being push overs. Polish tendency to demand more freedoms and independence.

7- Poland was a great commonwealth that at one time dominated russia and kept it in check.

8- Russia was closed of to the west, Poland welcomed the west

9- Constant warfare and conflicting interests between the countries.

10-Russian domination over poland during the 1800 and 1900s created polish hostility ro russia

10- Different cultural preferences, russians tend to be very eastern in mindset, polE's are more european.

11- General polish hostility to communism (while not 100%) and general russian exeptance of communism

We Poles and the russians are just two different peoples and different sovereign nations. We have similarities as well we are slavs, share some of the same food and drinks, some cultural traits shared words and some common enemies. At the same time, the differences in culture, history and mentality (even ethnic composition ) is much greater than similarities.

History / Origins of Polish Slavs [138]

Yes Veles I agree with many of your points.😊 And yes, I found that interesting, your point to Afghanistan. It turns out that like in poland, Afghanistan has a very high frequency of r1a1 haplogroup. Central Asians as well. This would reinforce the link with ancient scythian tribes. Also, linguists have shown that a region in northern iran is called Pul or Pol. Try Google it. They have connected this name with Pol, or Polani. They believe it is possible that an scythian tribe could have been assimilated into proto-slavs, giving it the name Polani. Like what the Bulgars did in Bulgaria to the local slavs. By the time these polani migrated to poland, they were considered slavs by culture and ethnicity. You are right, the people's of the vast lands of eastern europe did not just disappear, instead, they must have assimilated into a dominant culture and mixed in, this culture being slavs. In the case of this theory about the Pul, I am not sure about it , but it's possible. It is in northern iran, and scythians were northern iranians in speech. This is very much like the Croats and serbians, slavs who carry a possible sarmature tribal name. Also, the region of Pul if I remember is a land of vast green plains and fields, and the root of Polanie, which means land of green feilds. Veles and gimishu, what do you think of this?

Yes and again Veles to your point, your right history is very fluid. Lots of mixing occured.

And yes, around my town they also found Roman coins, near Brzesko Małopolska. It was some time ago.

History / Origins of Polish Slavs [138]

Veles, I agree with you when you say that there was no exclusively polish tribe to start with, slavs would merge with other tribes and later would form polish identity. However, it is very important to understand to some extent slavic origins before we break down the origins of poles. In this I agree with gumishu.

Yes, you are correct, there are many theories of where the slavs came from, but very little have any reliable information. One theory says that the slavic people were ancient Balkan peoples, another that slavs originated in pannonia. I am aware that one theory, based on evidence from the przeworsk culture, states that slavs originated in modern day poland, or lived subdued under a germanic ruling class. This is less likely however, than the ukrainian belorussian theory of origines. This area of east europe would be the most likely place for the formulation of slavic tribal identity. So Veles, I agree, no one knows where slavs came from, but it is important to go over the most likely theories of our origin, in order to understand the origin of any slavic country.

As for your view on the relatin of slavic people, I some what differ. You are right, everything is in speculation but I disagree that slavic people might be relaTed to germanic tribes. I know you did not say they were I am only commenting. In Roman records, it is certain that slavs came from the north east. In byzantine sources of balkan slavs, the slavs are described in relation to sythians, huns, and avars, not germanic peoples. The systems of slavic government were very different from germanic systems. Also, as we see from archeology, slavic tribes had a much more eglatarian culture than late germanics, who became metal workers. This shows that slavs, for a long time we're isolated from germanic cultures. In actually fact, the slavic launguage contains around 30 loanwords from indo-Iranian launguage, which could be the result of assimilation or common origin. As for today, I believe that slavic people are the most closely related to baltic people's of litwa and latvia. Your suggestions of scythians and sarmations are very likely to me.

Also during the time of slavic migrations, the byzantine romans had some knowledge of the land north of the carpathians. They knew that many of the germans of germania invaded in the last centuries, and that the geo political landscape changed. During the 500s byzantine sources talk of sclavenes(slavs) living along the vistula river. Before the birth of christ, the Romans were ignorant about this part of the world but, in the 6th and 7th centuries they had already large contact with tribes from the area and knew of changes. Also poland lay amougst the amber trade, attracting traders from the south. Also, germanic traders would pass on information to on to the byzantines. Also in the later centuries, the expansion of the holy Roman empire to the east would uncover multiple slavic polan tribes. Thus, poland during the time of slavic settlement was not covered by a large question mark. Ofcourse, no body knew details, but it was known that slavs did expand into poland. Again, I agree with many of your points, it is a good discussion. I agree with your czech lech and rus hypothesis

History / Origins of Polish Slavs [138]

In order to understand the origins of poles, one must break down the origins of the slavs. This is very hard, as slavs come into Roman sources only by the late date of 518 A.D. Slavs are a people of mystery.The most common theory is that the slavic people originated in the Northern Ukraine around the pripet marshes. This theory comes from the linguistic study, that shows that while many slavic words for Beech and oak trees are germanic loanwords, the word for hornbeam, the indigenous species of the area has a shared slavic origin. While this theory is very likely, and is backed by other studies, it has also met with difficulty. Baltic tribes are show to have inhabited the area, as shown by the place names of the area and river names. It is possible that slavs lived alongside baltic tribes, or the slavs formed from a mixture of Baltics from the north, and sarmations in the forest-steppe zone to the south. This zone of ethnic mixing would create a cultural identity that would soon become distnict, yet with certain similarities with Baltic and sarmation peoples.

The archeology shows that slavic migrations spread out from the western ukraine to other parts of europe, spreading the more eglatarian culture across eastern europe. Slavs spread down to the danube, south of the carpathians, and east into more central ukraine. The first slavic sub-culture to enter Poland north of the carpathians was called the Mogiła group. It spread across south eastern poland, replacing the scant remains of germanic populations that had left the area in the wake of the hun invasions. These slavs assimilated any remaining germans and formed a strong slavic presence in south east in what is know Małopolska and Podkarpackie. Slavic culture would also spread to central poland, while slavic expansion into North western poland was a bit slower, with scattered depopulated germanic tribes living in the area which would later be absorbed into slavic populations. North east poland, was at this time inhabited by western baltic cultures, but signs of mixing between slavic and baltic cultures would be seen in the following centuries.

As we see, Poland is a slavic nation, with distant germanic mixing in the north west (Pomerania), and Balts in the North east. The populations of South east poland and east central poland are the most slavonic, as shown by genetic testing, Where the highest groupings of r1a1 is found around krakow, rzeszow, Lublin and Warsaw regions. Thus is were the Mogiła group is present. Celtic influences exist in the south west. Thus we see through out early polish history, slavic tribes migrated to poland in the 6th century, assimilating smaller ethnic groups into their body resulting in some mixture. While this mixture occered ro an extent, it must be realized that the scattered germanic tribes living in poland were assimilated and became, in all sense of the word, slavs, by the overwhelming slavic ethnic population.

There is also a theory of the scythian sarmation origins of the polist nations. While I believe that this was exaggerated by the Polish szlachta, there is some truth to this. I do believe that slavs and sarmations in the earliest stage could have been related as well. This is shown by the similarities of sarmation cult symbols and polish coat of arms, and also by the settlemen of sarmations tribe in parts of east poland.

Throughout the centuries, Poland would be shown to be extremely multi-ethnic. Numerous populations would settle in poland and become polonized. The tatars from the central asian steppes would settle in polish lithuania, and soon 300,000 thousand would live in poland. Thus many poles have distant turkic heritage. Jews, armenians, germans and Scots also migrated to poland in large numbers, and in the earlier middle ages and during the deluge in the 1600s, northern poland was influenced by scandinavians. In addition, due to poland expansion to the east, many poles are mixed with ukrainians, belorussian and Lithuanian descent even if they are unaware. Eastern slav presence is very heavy in poles along the eastern borders. The carpathian region has seen mixture with vlachs and hungarians. Thus we see, from the most ancient of times, to more recent history, our people have been primarily unified by a cultural identity as poles, and not a exclusively ethnic one. Poland is slavic no question, but we have mixed alot. The reselt of being in a tolerant and exepting society like ours;)

Lech Czech and Rus. While this legend is a result of romantic myths, it has grains of truth. Actually the legend would support the historical evidence is archeology. It is possible that there could have been tribal divisions aamongst slavs, for example, lech could have been the name of a certain slavic tribal dynasty. The same for rus and czech.