vetala
13 Feb 2010
Language / Polish was chosen the HARDEST LANGUAGE in the world to learn... :D [1558]
No it's not. It's a regular word, not a slang at all.
No it's not. It's a regular word, not a slang at all.
vetala
8 Feb 2010
History / "Poland's Concentration Camp" ?? [570]
1jola
Ugh, terrifying. I didn't realize how bad it is. But there were about 30 kids on that trip and only about three interviews with them were shown so it could be that other kids didn't have a bad opinion on Poland and only those with really shocking views were shown - that's how documentaries are usually made. Still, the people who constantly tell them to watch out for an army of antisemites are idiots and deserve to be sacked.
1jola
Ugh, terrifying. I didn't realize how bad it is. But there were about 30 kids on that trip and only about three interviews with them were shown so it could be that other kids didn't have a bad opinion on Poland and only those with really shocking views were shown - that's how documentaries are usually made. Still, the people who constantly tell them to watch out for an army of antisemites are idiots and deserve to be sacked.
vetala
5 Feb 2010
History / Polish soldiers in '68 made Czech men to drink beer from his shoes... [34]
Actually, they did - in 1919, while Poland was busy fighting with the Soviet Union. It was just as much a d*ckish move as the Polish invasion of Czechoslovakia.
Actually, they did - in 1919, while Poland was busy fighting with the Soviet Union. It was just as much a d*ckish move as the Polish invasion of Czechoslovakia.
vetala
4 Feb 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
Marek11111
Thank you for contributing with your thoughtful insight.
Marek11111
Thank you for contributing with your thoughtful insight.
vetala
4 Feb 2010
History / Is Jozef Pilsudski the king of modern Poles? [138]
Don't be hatin' Borrka ;) I'm sure your opinion would be the same as BB's if the discussion was about Polish influence in Lithuanian/Ukrainian/whicheverelse cities.
Don't be hatin' Borrka ;) I'm sure your opinion would be the same as BB's if the discussion was about Polish influence in Lithuanian/Ukrainian/whicheverelse cities.
vetala
1 Feb 2010
History / Is Jozef Pilsudski the king of modern Poles? [138]
BB, what exactly are you trying to prove? In 16th century they were 'polonized' and not by force so technically they are included in our ancestry. Yes, the input of our German ancestors was quite invaluable xD
BB, what exactly are you trying to prove? In 16th century they were 'polonized' and not by force so technically they are included in our ancestry. Yes, the input of our German ancestors was quite invaluable xD
vetala
31 Jan 2010
History / Is Jozef Pilsudski the king of modern Poles? [138]
Bratwurst Boy
Would you prefer 'Brzęczyszczykiewicz'? ;)
Better than Feliks Dzierżyński at least.
Bratwurst Boy
Would you prefer 'Brzęczyszczykiewicz'? ;)
What about 'they were as good Poles as ethnic Poles'?
Better than Feliks Dzierżyński at least.
vetala
31 Jan 2010
History / Is Jozef Pilsudski the king of modern Poles? [138]
bullfrog
Also Kopernik's mother was Prussian, Wit Stwosz was born under the name Veit Stoß and Matejko was Czech. Most of our kings and queens weren't ethnically Polish either. Still they were better Poles than most ethnic Poles.
bullfrog
Also Kopernik's mother was Prussian, Wit Stwosz was born under the name Veit Stoß and Matejko was Czech. Most of our kings and queens weren't ethnically Polish either. Still they were better Poles than most ethnic Poles.
vetala
31 Jan 2010
History / Is Jozef Pilsudski the king of modern Poles? [138]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Józef_Piłsudski#endnote_bnone
He considered himself a Lithuanian raised in Polish culture, he never called himself an ethnic Pole.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Józef_Piłsudski#endnote_bnone
He considered himself a Lithuanian raised in Polish culture, he never called himself an ethnic Pole.
vetala
31 Jan 2010
vetala
19 Jan 2010
Life / Poles are not racist [873]
Yes, LAGirl, your boyfriend being a racist is an unquestionable proof that all people who happen to have the same ethnicity as him must be exactly the same. It's a simple biological fact.
Yes, LAGirl, your boyfriend being a racist is an unquestionable proof that all people who happen to have the same ethnicity as him must be exactly the same. It's a simple biological fact.
vetala
12 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
It obvious that the Polish experience was different from the Jewish and Gypsy experience, but it's wrong to say that Poles were just 'war casualties' the same way the British or the French or the Americans were. They were killed in different ways and for different reasons. We could argue about the term 'Holocaust' but this has to be remembered.
Here's something from Hans Frank. It shows that Nazis themselves weren't sure what to do with Poles:
Should we exterminate or build things up, should the work be created here or in the Reich, should we give up workers or keep them here, should we let the Poles starve or should we feed them?
It obvious that the Polish experience was different from the Jewish and Gypsy experience, but it's wrong to say that Poles were just 'war casualties' the same way the British or the French or the Americans were. They were killed in different ways and for different reasons. We could argue about the term 'Holocaust' but this has to be remembered.
Here's something from Hans Frank. It shows that Nazis themselves weren't sure what to do with Poles:
It would be desirable if the Reich ministries, Party agencies, and the territorial authorities could finally decide on a course of action. It simply will not do for some people to say all Poles of whatever sort will be exterminated and for others to say all Poles of whatever kind, if they are fit for work, must be put to work. There is a complete contradiction here.
Should we exterminate or build things up, should the work be created here or in the Reich, should we give up workers or keep them here, should we let the Poles starve or should we feed them?
vetala
12 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
Does anyone remember those 20 million Russians?
Did you also know that 7 million Christians suffered and were tortured and murdered?
Does anyone remember those 20 million Russians?
vetala
10 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
My grandparents, expelled from Belarus. I apologize if that's a problem.
Grzegorz_
What is the point of digging up an old post from an old thread just to drag on an old argument resolved long ago?
My grandparents, expelled from Belarus. I apologize if that's a problem.
Grzegorz_
What is the point of digging up an old post from an old thread just to drag on an old argument resolved long ago?
vetala
9 Jan 2010
Language / Polish and Hungarian, how similar? [53]
It's never a good idea to write a book about events that happened in another country a long of time ago without active help from people who possess wide knowledge about those times and places. A lot of research is needed and, unfortunately, quite often people read a book about another nation's culture and think that all customs and traditions mentioned there are the same for people from all parts of the country and from all social backgrouds, which is usually false.
My advice is that you should show your manuscript to someone who specializes in East European studies before you decide to publish it. It's better to recieve help from an expert than risk making a mistake which would be later pointed out by reviewers.
Anyway, I'd love to read your book. Could you say more about the plot and the genre?
It's never a good idea to write a book about events that happened in another country a long of time ago without active help from people who possess wide knowledge about those times and places. A lot of research is needed and, unfortunately, quite often people read a book about another nation's culture and think that all customs and traditions mentioned there are the same for people from all parts of the country and from all social backgrouds, which is usually false.
My advice is that you should show your manuscript to someone who specializes in East European studies before you decide to publish it. It's better to recieve help from an expert than risk making a mistake which would be later pointed out by reviewers.
Anyway, I'd love to read your book. Could you say more about the plot and the genre?
vetala
8 Jan 2010
Language / Funny/strange/deviant words in the Polish language [35]
'Miesiąc' used to mean 'moon' a long time ago but now it's no longer used in this context (now it means 'month'). It's the same with many other words such as 'lico' old Polish for face, still in use in some other Slavic languages.
A part from Polish, we can see in all these languages the occurrence of the Latin (and modern Italian, Spanish, French etc.) root "Luna" or of a slavic root exemplified by e.g. Czech Měsíc. Why not in Polish? What's the etymology of księżyc ?
'Miesiąc' used to mean 'moon' a long time ago but now it's no longer used in this context (now it means 'month'). It's the same with many other words such as 'lico' old Polish for face, still in use in some other Slavic languages.
vetala
7 Jan 2010
Genealogy / THE MEANING AND RESEARCH OF MY POLISH LAST NAME, SURNAME? [4501]
Polonius, do you know what Gmytrasiewicz surname could mean?
Polonius, do you know what Gmytrasiewicz surname could mean?
vetala
5 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [636]
I've been wondering about it, actually. Do you have some sort of link to Poland? You mentioned somewhere that you've been writing on this forum because of some experience in Poland, if I remember correctly?
Why am I on a Polish forum if I wasn't drawn somehow to Poland?
I've been wondering about it, actually. Do you have some sort of link to Poland? You mentioned somewhere that you've been writing on this forum because of some experience in Poland, if I remember correctly?
vetala
4 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
We're talking about pre-WWII Poland, a completely new state which appeared out of nowhere on ethnically mixed lands after more than a century of nonexistence. I'm sure many Russian, German and Austrian citizens didn't wish to suddenly change citizenship, especially if they wanted their own state instead.
So only ethnic Poles "count" and not Polish citizens in general?
We're talking about pre-WWII Poland, a completely new state which appeared out of nowhere on ethnically mixed lands after more than a century of nonexistence. I'm sure many Russian, German and Austrian citizens didn't wish to suddenly change citizenship, especially if they wanted their own state instead.
vetala
4 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
If they never identified as Poles then obviously they were never Polish.
If they never identified as Poles then obviously they were never Polish.
vetala
4 Jan 2010
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
Ironside
Sorry, I lost track of our discussion, I will have to reread the whole thread again and see where we finished.
Harry
It's the same thing as with volksdeutche, Harry - the key-point here is whether these people did what they did as Poles or as Germans/Ruthenians/Whatever else. If someone willingly gives up their national identity and assumes the national identity of an enemy during the times of war just for personal gain then in my mind they lose it forever.
Ironside
Sorry, I lost track of our discussion, I will have to reread the whole thread again and see where we finished.
Harry
It's the same thing as with volksdeutche, Harry - the key-point here is whether these people did what they did as Poles or as Germans/Ruthenians/Whatever else. If someone willingly gives up their national identity and assumes the national identity of an enemy during the times of war just for personal gain then in my mind they lose it forever.
vetala
4 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [636]
Bullsh*t. Lots of noble families intermarried with Jews (for example Radziwiłłowie, Potoccy, Lubomirscy, Lanckorońscy and Hutten-Czapscy) and Jews were often ennobled themselves.
I also disagree with Yehudi's conviction that a Jew would rather die than convert. According to the Polish law "Jeśliby Żyd który albo Żydówka do wiary chrześcijańskiej przystąpili, tedy każda osoba i potomstwo ich za szlachcica poczytywani być mają"
Meaning that every Jew who converts automatically became a noble and his family did too.
Here's an interesting article about the Jewish Neophytes (with nice drawing of their coats of arms if anyone's interested):
rp.pl/artykul/139640.html
But of course, that's only the nobles. They made up no more than 10% of the population so it's still not enough to significantly change the gene pool of the whole nation. Certainly not many peasants intermarried with Jews.
It was a cultural thing, Nobles saw mixing with Jews as degradation
Bullsh*t. Lots of noble families intermarried with Jews (for example Radziwiłłowie, Potoccy, Lubomirscy, Lanckorońscy and Hutten-Czapscy) and Jews were often ennobled themselves.
I also disagree with Yehudi's conviction that a Jew would rather die than convert. According to the Polish law "Jeśliby Żyd który albo Żydówka do wiary chrześcijańskiej przystąpili, tedy każda osoba i potomstwo ich za szlachcica poczytywani być mają"
Meaning that every Jew who converts automatically became a noble and his family did too.
Here's an interesting article about the Jewish Neophytes (with nice drawing of their coats of arms if anyone's interested):
rp.pl/artykul/139640.html
But of course, that's only the nobles. They made up no more than 10% of the population so it's still not enough to significantly change the gene pool of the whole nation. Certainly not many peasants intermarried with Jews.
vetala
3 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [636]
Hmmm... three pages in just one day. Yeah, Jews really are special people. Everybody wants to discuss them all the time.
Hmmm... three pages in just one day. Yeah, Jews really are special people. Everybody wants to discuss them all the time.
vetala
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [636]
Pity it's not known for having the biggest Jewish diaspora in the world, then. But still, kudos to Scotland.
The only country in Europe to never at any point in history have any anti-semitic law or decree.
Pity it's not known for having the biggest Jewish diaspora in the world, then. But still, kudos to Scotland.
vetala
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [636]
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Frank#Baptism_of_the_Frankists
It's not misinformed at all. Poland did hold 3/4 of the Jewish world. Centuries ago, when they were chased out of all other countries. Where else in the world could they live?
From what I know, there weren't many of those in Poland.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacob_Frank#Baptism_of_the_Frankists
I was talking about the misinformed fact that was brought here before, that claimed Poland held more of 3/4 of the Jewish world.
It's not misinformed at all. Poland did hold 3/4 of the Jewish world. Centuries ago, when they were chased out of all other countries. Where else in the world could they live?
vetala
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [636]
Yeah, because Jews only moved to Poland right before Nazi occupation.
There were about 2,500,000 Jews in Poland before Nazi Germany occupation, which doesn't even come CLOSE to 3/4 of the Jewish population at those times.
Yeah, because Jews only moved to Poland right before Nazi occupation.
vetala
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [636]
Current DNA tests are crap. They only test mtdna and ydna - the first one can be passed SOLELY by women and the second one SOLELY by men. So a mixed couple will have daughters with no trace of father's dna and sons with no trace of mother's dna.
WTF are you fighting over, guys? The thread was about how many Poles may have at least ONE Jewish ancestor, not about how much Jewish blood Poles have. It's kind of obvious that having one Jewish ancestor 300 years earlier won't change your genotype much.
Current DNA tests are crap. They only test mtdna and ydna - the first one can be passed SOLELY by women and the second one SOLELY by men. So a mixed couple will have daughters with no trace of father's dna and sons with no trace of mother's dna.
WTF are you fighting over, guys? The thread was about how many Poles may have at least ONE Jewish ancestor, not about how much Jewish blood Poles have. It's kind of obvious that having one Jewish ancestor 300 years earlier won't change your genotype much.
vetala
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [636]
At least one? In that case all Poles do. I'd laugh if a Pole tried to convince me that they have not a single Jewish ancestor.
Simple math - in 1790 around 30.000 Jews converted following the teachings of Jacob Frank. Assuming that every each one of them had only 2 kids and a generation counts as 30 years that gives the number of 7 680 000 of their descendants in the year 2000. All of them resulting from a SINGLE event.
how likely is it that the average Pole has had at least one Jewish ancestor?
At least one? In that case all Poles do. I'd laugh if a Pole tried to convince me that they have not a single Jewish ancestor.
Have there been any significant genealogical studies on this?
Simple math - in 1790 around 30.000 Jews converted following the teachings of Jacob Frank. Assuming that every each one of them had only 2 kids and a generation counts as 30 years that gives the number of 7 680 000 of their descendants in the year 2000. All of them resulting from a SINGLE event.
vetala
30 Dec 2009
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
What do you think of his other books? Is he a respected historian too, or only in the things you agree with him?
In other words - Gross was right for as long as he said things that you liked to hear. Then he said something you did't like and with that he completely lost credibility.
Well, personally, I wouldn't bring out Gross as an expert on Polish-Jewish relation at all.
PS I still think that Jedwabne and Kielce were shameful incidents and perpetraitors can't be justified by anything.
What do you think of his other books? Is he a respected historian too, or only in the things you agree with him?
He sang a different tune before he decided to make a career out of proving Polish antisemitism. For the record, he stated on Polish TV that he personaly never experienced antisemitism in Poland.
In other words - Gross was right for as long as he said things that you liked to hear. Then he said something you did't like and with that he completely lost credibility.
Well, personally, I wouldn't bring out Gross as an expert on Polish-Jewish relation at all.
PS I still think that Jedwabne and Kielce were shameful incidents and perpetraitors can't be justified by anything.
vetala
30 Dec 2009
History / Have Poles blood on their hands? :) [496]
Do you know who was the author of this book? Jan T. Gross ;)
A book published by Princeton University Press and titled Revolution from Abroad: the Soviet Conquest of Poland's Western Ukraine and Western Belorussia
Do you know who was the author of this book? Jan T. Gross ;)