Love / Child support in USA order (child born in Poland) [56]


No offense but now I am starting to really not believe your story. If in fact she took the money, that is criminal and your wife may be extridited from Poland. If convicted you would end up with your daughter anyway. Second if you did in fact have 60 k in the bank you are making some nice coin and $400.00 per month is chump change.


here it can cost $400 for one week max 2 for a nanny. So that is not a bad sum of money. Lets not forget folks that he is supposed to share in his daughters upbringing not pay for it all especially since he doesn't get to see her. That $400.00 was supposed to guarantee him at least every other weekend plus vacation time and every other holiday. Now he has got nothing. Before all of you divorced women start casting stones at the guy maybe you should take a hard look at how you would feel if you were stripped of your child .


You are assuming that this wasn't a scam by the women to get pregnant and use the kid as a sweet paycheck.

Love / Child support in USA order (child born in Poland) [56]

Yeah and if you believe that I have a nice bridge to sell you. But besides this, the chances of OP getting forced visitation from Poland is probably slim and will take cash and time. This is about visitation not the money for the child.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]

On the contrary, the marriage rate in the Usa. has been going down almost every year. This is because people are waiting longer to get married mostly due to financial reasons. Your comparison does not make sense since it does not take into account the amount of broken relationships each person had prior to getting married and the multiple relationships of the people who didn't get married.

Love / Child support in USA order (child born in Poland) [56]


I think she was. $400.00 per month is a drop in the bucket here but in Poland that can go a whole lot further.

When was the divorce finalized? Did she have the courts permission to leave the country? What was your visitation?

Dude I feel for you. Once the courts give them full custody, you are at thier mercy. As I posted earlier, be careful. I would definately consult a Polish attorny to find out your options.

Love / Child support in USA order (child born in Poland) [56]

There is no doubt a father should always take care of his own. Even if she used him as a sperm bank he should still take care of his obligations.

I will have to warn OP. I am not sure what the laws are in your state but the amount awarded does not seem outlandish. If you persue in Polish court, from what other postings on this site seem to indicate is that Polish courts tend to screw foreigners. I am not sure if she has the right to sue in Poland also, or at least seek an adjustment on future earnings in Poland but if she does if you marry she will be able to adjust the amount if your spouce also contributes to your household. In other words if you are looking for a battle you may lose at least financially. I would consult a Polish attorny to check your options.


Agreed.

Love / Child support in USA order (child born in Poland) [56]

The point is the guy wants visitation. Why should he have to shell out a dime if not guaranteed his paternal rights. He obviously wants to raise the child if he wants visitation. If the mother decided to run and has no support system that is on her. He shouldn't be made to suffer because the childs mother made a poor decision. (assuming she has no support system)


Actually he doesn't even have to be identified as the father but just named the father by the mother.


If you have a more current one that would be helpful..... Why is that not a good address...I mean other than that gentlemen may not be in charge anymore.

Love / Child support in USA order (child born in Poland) [56]

Also curious was paternity established? If it wasn't you may wish to do so as it will make visitation judgements easier. Also this is one of the agencies in Poland that may be able to help. It is a bit old but may still be of use.

The National Child Support Enforcement Association
February 25, 2004
"

POLAND Send Correspondence to:
(NY;FRC;HG56;HG73;RA)

Deputy Minister of Justice
Polish People's Republic
AL. Ujazdowskie 11
Warsaw PL 00950

Love / Child support in USA order (child born in Poland) [56]

Are you sure the child is in Poland. Sounds like they moved out of state. Unless they retained a lawyer prior to moving to Poland (Divorce lawyers are the worst) What state are you in as state to state laws vary to some degree.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


Quite a lot more of the world, in the Arab peninsula, in the pacific Islands practise it . These are your words.

I already included Muslims. So your adding an area about the size of Rhode Island. Not an overwhelming amount of the world. I still havn't seen any links regarding christian or Rc churches practicing Polygamy. What ongoing debate are you referring to the debate that they actually exist or the fact that they are in Africa an area I have already posted as accepting polygamy.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


Before making false statements you may wish to do a simple google search before making them. If you type in is christian polygamy practised today...you can read for yourself.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


Only if you let them. Personelly I think you did the right thing. You chose to get away from a bad situation. You didn't cave and get married to the wrong person as many people do and blame marriage for it or social pressure. You were free to choose and chose wisely.


The entire continent of Africa allows the practise which is why I posted a third (land mass wise). Do you have any proof of what you say, I find it hard to believe any practising christian would condone polygamy. What other modern cultures practice polygamy?

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]

When I said a third I was being generous....I was referrring to land mass not population. I would like to know of any christians that are praticing polygamy..doesn't make sense . I wasn't calling you a muslim, I was pointing out that muslims are the only group that polygamy is an accepted pratice.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


Actually no, I am merely discussing and defending my position.


Neither I, anyone posting here, or society is forcing you to do anything. You are free to do anything you want, say anything you want as long as it doesn't infringe on the personel rights or damage others.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


First I found the statement so ridiculous, I made a joke about it. I thought it was obvious. The reason I find this statement to be so offensive is modern women generally thrive on and demand autonomy. If you are going into the marriage with the intention of "being taken care of" you are dooming that marriage to failure. If women are looking to get "taken care of" in a modern marriage ... I say good luck. It is very difficult at least where I live to maintain a happy household on one salary. The times of the man going out and bringing home the bacon are way gone.

The only way a relationship is "more autonomous" than marriage is in the bedroom.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


Yes the average cost is about $500.00. A portion is expected up front and you can make payments every month. It takes on average about 16 months so that is around $30.00 a month give or take.


An ecclesiastic annulment is a declaration by the Church that a marriage which was thought to be valid, was not legally binding. This might be because of some defect in the consent given on the day of the wedding, or possibly a defect in the psychological capacity of one of the parties.

When an annulment is granted the Church is not putting aside a valid union, nor is it saying that there never was a marriage. The union certainly was a sociological fact, and the memory of it may be cherished, but the legal contract on which it was based was found to be invalid.

Canon Law declares that all the children born of an annulled marriage are legitimate. The unfortunate designation "illegitimate " is hardly used any more, but it is technically reserved for those born out of wedlock, which is certainly not the case in an annulled marriage.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


When I signed it I made a formal declaration that I wish to spend the rest of my life with my wife to the world and I have taken an oath to do so. The paper part for me is meaningless . The standard is not.

I agree that relationships have evolved no question. However the institution is exactly the same. People's perception of the institution has certainly changed ( and not for the better) Why? Because of modern civil divorce. It has taken something that was supposed to be unending and stable and turned it into a temporary contract full of loopholes.

Marriage is not a church invention. It predates christianity and all religions for that matter.


Not sure what this means?


1. No one is telling anyone to do anything.
2. The idiot who beat on his wife should be in jail. And his wife is a fool for not sending him there. Personelly I would hope she would talk to a brother ,her father, another male friend who would get a group together, drag her husband out back and beat the shoot out of him until he learned how to respect women. My point is he is a jerk and would be a jerk whether he was married or not. Marriage did not make him this way...he went in as an azz and should be kicked in his until he learns how to treat the mother of his children.

3. Bravo for the second couple. Do I wish this couple got married prior to having kids ...yes. Do I belive they would have been just as successful if they signed on the dotted line.....absolutely.


More confused?


Not at all what I said


It really doesn't matter who initiates the divorce. Infidelity is grounds for divorce in almost all cultures including Catholics.


you mean in about a third of it and you are muslim.


Actually in the USA. if one of the parties in a divorce proceeding refuses to sign the divorce papers, the judge will sign for them in essence forcing them to get divorced.


Funny most men feel the exact same way.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]

f stop

This is where we will never see eye to eye. For me the signing of the "paper" was the most insignificant part of my marriage. It means nothing.

Sure its a legal document but depending where you live there is "common law". For example depending where you live in the Usa. ( 11 states in the Usa still have Common law) if you are in a relationship with someone (and living with them ) for (varies from state to state) 3 to 7 years. you are considered married. And the real pain about this situation is there is no such thing as "Common Law Divorse" In order to separate you have to petition the state you were living in for an annulment. This is simplified of course but true.

Marriage to me means much more than a piece of paper. I work at it.

I think we would all agree that every relationship is different (hell every individual for that matter) I wouldn't necessarily agree that the reason most people in relationships are unhappy is they are afraid they can't conform. I think the reason most people are unhappy is because they don't want to conform because they are selfish and can't figure out it is better to give than to receive.

Marriage used to bind not only 2 people together but 2 families together. Making a community.

Now it has become a joke. Only to last as long as the weakest or more selfish person in it decides they might be happier elsewhere. Any good thing takes effort.

The biggest problem in modern society is that the word "freedom " has become synonymous with " I want"

These of course are subjective statements. I personelly do not believe in divorse. I do not judge anyone who is. Out of 4 children in my family 2 are divorsed. One will not remarry or see anyone else until his ex dies or remarries. The other is getting married for the third time next year. I love them equally.


Yup both he and she chose poorly.


I mean society in general thinks this way. I mean where I grew up. A person committed to one person was called a husband a wife a boyfriend or a girlfriend. A person with multiple "commitments" was called a dog or a slut.


I never said that two individuals can not have a committed relationship. I did say that I think someone should get married before having children. I think it is (I hate to use this word because all the non conformists are gonna have a field day) a more structured/stable relationship to raise a child in. No committed relationship whether it be marriage or not is perfect. And for all who think marriage is just signing a paper .....stay single you will just f... it up.


Is having only one mate for a period of time. I am sorry I am confused as to what you felt was unnatural. I understand not wanting to be tied down. Marriage isn't for everyone. I don't judge my single friends. Some of them don't believe in marriage either.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


To be monogomous? If that is the case marriage is definately not for you.


Actually what I am talking about is marriage. I can have a relationship with my dog, a coworker, or a teamate. I am talking about a much stronger committment.

Why is it a shame that I think you should be married prior to starting a family. Why am I brainwashed to think that committing to one person (your spouce) is a natural progression before committing to having kids. I should think if you want 2 kids it is quite practical to be able to commit to one before committng to two more.

I am sorry that marriage does not mean the same thing to you as it does to me. Marriage is much more than a piece of paper.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


If it won't change you than whats the problem???? There are benefits given by the government to registered couples that an unmarried couple will not receive. These benefit both the married couple and the children.


Yes and yes she is probably the most giving person I know. I am not going to argue with you what makes a perfect marriage there is none. If you read all of my posts you might have a better understanding of how I feel about marriage.


If this is your interpretation of marriage, I suggest you don't get married. Like I said getting married is not for everyone. Living together is easy. Marriage is much more than just signing a long term lease.


Well at least we can sort of agree on something. If an individual is not strong enough to take on the responcibilies of marriage ..they certainly should not have children.


Why do all you have to skip right to the end of the relationship. I use relationship here because this shouldn't happen in a marriage between 2 caring individuals. The question that should be asked is why is the spouce drinking?? Is he/she an addict, are there financial problems, a recent tragedy. What steps have been taken to resolve those issues by both parties involved. Marriage is a team sport people. There is no more individuals. What happens to one happens to both and both should support eachother through anything. It is not a blame game. Do i condone violence in marriage ...no. Do I think the kids should be removed from that environment ...yes... My point is it should never get that far.

Genealogy / Advice to translate pages from a Polish book into English? (Genealogy) [16]


Well if you visit the church or call I am sure you will be able to have someone there help you. It would be free minus a bit of gas and your time. If you would like to contact a pro that I have used and highly recommend here is his link: polishgenealogy.com.pl

Good luck

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]

I would like to know what makes marriage immoral? The union of two individuals is a moral one. It is the shortcomings of individuals entering into marriage that causes the problems. Not the institution itself.

I am still a little in the dark about this legislating morality statement? How is requiring two individuals to register thier relationship in order to receive certain benefits from the government legislating morality?

I mean the government gives us all numbers to keep track of us for taxes/benefits/etc. Is it legislating morality when it gives me my social security card?

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


Has the world got "This Selfish" that it does not understand what parenting is all about. Once you have a child any parent should have its childs self interest at heart 1st and foremost. Dead relationship- who cares its all about the kids now. A person chooses to get married for better or worse- not only when we are young and 50 pounds lighter or when we don't need a lot of money and everything seems within our reach.... its during the bad times too when our spouce loses his/her job and money is tight and our spouce is drinking too much because they feel like a failure...it is in these bad times where we teach our children the most...self respect, perserverence, self sacrifice by helping our spouce through these hard times. Divorce only teaches our children one thing...that thier parents failed to keep thier word.


it doesn't have to be. There is councelling. Mistakes will be made but running away from a problem is not the answer. I suppose you are an advocate of bankruptcy also. My debts /committments are not my problem let someone else bear there burdon.


You are talking about an extreme case here not the norm. I would not even clasify such individuals as parents and they should lose thier parental rights.Some couples should have thier kids taken away and be forced to sustain the child (financially) in a more loving environment. This is also an extreme solution but the long term damage on the child might be mitigated.


Teaching a child to run away from thier responcibilities is not good parenting. Teaching your child self sacrifice, compromise, and love is the answer.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]

You think that getting divorced is healthy and guarantees happiness????

Even in an ideal situation where an individual can learn from one's mistakes and chooses correctly the second time around...there are torn loyalties for the child between biological and step/parents....not to mention the time involved being reered by only a single parent.

As for kids repeating a parents mistakes.. that is on the parent not the child. not all people should become parents until they learn what being a parent entails. The same way a person should not get married until they learn the requirements.

teflcat

OP is referring to unmarried individuals. I could be wrong though.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


They don't. Any dictionary will tell you this.


Now your getting it. If someone decides to have children out of wedlock.


Same in the Usa. but the law tends to fall more on the childrens side of the equation...It makes the paternal father responcible finacially (at least in theory). In reality society fits the bill unless the father steps up. Do I think we as a society should help our youth to insure a better future for all....the answer is yes. Do I think a woman/man should be able to drop kids with multiple partners and society suffer for it ...the answer is no. It is not backward for a government to want a person to get married before having kids. It is the natural progression of things. You meet your partner. you commit to a partner. You register your relationship. You have kids.


Sorry if I misquoted your meaning. I am unfamiliar with this term. I took it to mean pathology. If I am wrong please let me know.


Not all people should get married or have kids for that matter. To answer your question yes I would. Why because the child may learn from thier parents mistake and not jump into marriage with the wrong partner, or learn how to be more diplomatic rather than hostile. Or depending how irresponcible the parents are may learn nothing at all. This is more difficult in the case of divorce (not impossible). Parents tend to use thier children as pawns in an ongoing battle with thier former spouce ( this can be done subtely or more dramatically) This destroys a childs view of the opposite sex promoting trust issues. This in turn leads the child to think that marriage is a bad thing. This simply is not the case. The commitment is not the issue. It is the selfishness and non conformity of the individuals getting into the marriage that destroys the bond rather than the instrument itself.

There are amicable divorces and nasty divorces. Divorce as a whole is a negitive influence on children. It is perceived as a nasty battle.

Marriage is a beautiful commitment..something to aspire to. It is the individuals that destroy the commitment not the commitment that destroys the individuals.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


some sort of artificial bind or contract to trap two people together is both unfeasible and unfair

these are your words to describe marriage. If a person thinks its a trap they obviously would want out ...unfair if you think that kind of commitment is unfair I can draw the conclusion that you don't want the commitment.

My word dillusional was used to describe a person who thinks that someone breaking up anothers committed relationship as moral which is what you stated. I wouldn't want anyone to destroy your committment to your partner either ....Does that make me dillusional or immoral.

And the idea that a government may promote another relationship as higher, or more beneficial, just because it's been stamped by a clerk in an office, is to do an injustice to all other forms of relationship and therefore commitment.

The government is not trying to promote any relationship it is trying to document the relationship so its citizens can apply for benefits .etc. They are in no way reducing the relationship that you have. Should a women or man be able to claim multiple partners and receive multiple benefits. The answer is no. The government should not have to document every relationship that a person has in thier life just the ones that a person feels are permanent. This is one of the purposes of a civil marriage. Documentation.

The married women that I know, once they're married, forgo their own career ambitions, some even take it as one of the perks of not having to work. Soon after that the partnership becomes lopsided: she resents having to explain what she needs the money for, he resents the financial burden. She takes much more sht from him than she'd have to do if she had her own income, losses her self esteem and becomes insecure about re-entering the work force.

This sounds more like the diary of a divorced women rather than every married women. There is no reason for a women to give up her career just because she wants to get married. If a women/man does not want to give up her career they should discuss it before getting married. How they are going to raise thier kids... all the dos and don'ts should have already been discussed before hand.


Where did you grow up.....ouch!!


Not sure what this has to do with the topic at hand but I personelly loved my pet Kc. Not sure if that made me a better Catholic or not?????


Maybe we should go back to when women were just property and had no rights...that would just eliminate those problems for men after marriage is over.... bad j/k

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]

No one person is perfect, nor one government. In what way does government promote or has placed into law that cohabitation is bad or illegal. Does it promote marriage , yes but it does not illegitimize cohabitation.


On what criteria is cohabitation moral? If someone falls in love with someone who is already married and breaks up that marriage. If you don't find this immoral. You are dillusional. Marriage is more than a piece of paper it is a (higher) commitment . As stated earlier it is not for everyone.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


How is marriage detrimental to women?

I also support the idea that marriage is detrimental, but not for f stop's reasons. My commitment to my partner is my own choice, between me and him/her. Putting an external pressure on that relationship, some sort of artificial bind or contract to trap two people together is both unfeasible and unfair. It may have been "morally noble" in the dark ages when women were denied all the other basic human rights and had to look to their man for support, but not any more.

Marriage is a committment and a choice. It sounds like you don't want to have a committment at all.

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


If you are referring to 2 people in 2 separate marriages that want to sleep with eachother and destroy 2 family units whether there are kids involved or not...you are damn right I support a law to punish both individuals.

I would think this is common sense.


A bit off topic but...How is paying your taxes morally wrong. If you have a problem with your local tax structure you may want to run for a government position and change them. Tax law is not perfect. And how is 2 people shacking up to pay one rent instead of 2 any different. We can nit pick all day.


Not sure what this means??

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


Not exactly what I said .. I said that marriage is a positive thing.


To think that kids are not given a more stable environment in a relationship between a married man and women vs. an unmarried couple is dillusional.

You can honestly say that if/when you have children you would not want them to get married and have your grandkids. Take religion out of the equation. You would want your kids to just shack up with someone and have a couple of bastards out of wedlock. That is ridiculous.


Where did you get this from??? I merely stated that marriage is a positive thing.

If you are referring to my second statement. I would think that this would be common sense. I don't go around killing everyone I have a problem with. Morrally wrong. I don't go around stealing from anyone. Morally wrong. I don't go around banging my neighbors wife. Morally wrong. (not criminal but it should be)

Love / Unmarried couples in Poland = pathology [310]


Sorry if you feel I went off topic. I merely agree or disagree with some of the statements made and chose to comment. for example:

Stability- absolutly agree

Child rearing- already commented but don't agree entirely... not everyone can be a good parent but if they can be a good
parent they can most probably be a wonderful spouce. Getting married doesn't automatically make you a
better parent. It can make it easier fiscally (single parent/divorcee) and give a child a stable structure to
strive for (sets good example) but I am sure there are many well adjusted happy bastards running around
in the world.

Domestic violence - Have to disagree with you here. There are as many married jerks as there are unmarried. Married
abuse tends to go on unreported in greater numbers I am afraid, but these numbers are
becoming more and more skewed because of falling marriage rates. It looks like there are a greater
number of reports for non-married couples but percentage wise they are very close.

Child abuse- sorry to generalize here but in this case you are dead wrong as most child molesters tend to be married.

Duration of family unit - Agree

Long term implications - We all have problems in the long run.


I think it absolutely should. We as a society should encourage positive choices. What is wrong with imposing moral laws.