History / WWII in Europe could be also understand as Civil War of Slavic world? [11]

You claim all your topics are about Poles, yet they somehow manage to end up being about Serbs.

>^..^<

M-G (still busy)

History / WWII in Europe could be also understand as Civil War of Slavic world? [11]


Only the Sorbian population (app 150.000) are Slavic, the rest is Germanic. Saxons, for example, are not Slavic. This is within the current borders of Germany.


About half of the casualties of WW2 were of Slavic descent (20 mln Russians, 3 mln Poles, 1 mln Yugoslavs and others), the rest was of non-Slavic descent.

But you're right in one point: the conflict in Eastern Europe was the heart of the conflict, this was race against race, one totalitarian régime against another. Has of course to do with the racial politics of Hilter cs.

>^..^<

M-G (busy)

Language / WISŁA or VISTULA?? [46]

It has to be actually: Scheveningse Schilders Schilderen Verschillende (or Verscheidene) Scheveningenaren :)

Try:

Vingervlugge Virtuoze Violisten Versieren Virtuoos Veertig Virtuoos Vingervlugge, Verlegen Violistes :)

Anyhow, it's a difficult language.

>^..^<

M-G (busy)

Love / Advice Please! Meeting my Polish boyfriend's parents!! Gifts, customs... [105]

Maybe they're into blacks and euthanasia as well? Maybe they know their daughter is the born slave girl. Who knows? Not me.

>^..^<

M-G (tralala)

Love / Advice Please! Meeting my Polish boyfriend's parents!! Gifts, customs... [105]


Great remark :)

As for the topic: you better not slap them in the face, tell them their food is disgusting and if there is any place you can get some decent fish and chips, not the crap they just served you, better not tell them that your previous gf was black, also don't tell them you regard their daughter as an easy lay and that you keep her while the laying is good, but that you're looking for sth better, that you plan to keep her on the side after you found your true love because the sex is so darn good. Also, you might not wanna mention you've euthanised your granny as you thought she was getting old anyway and hey, you needed a house, so what else could you do? Perhaps it's better not to tell them that your brother is homosexual and that you yourself are actually in doubt, but that you're at least full blown bi-sexual. Oh and you don't want to mention that you absolutely hate Catholics to the point that your preferential place of peeing in public is against the walls of a Catholic Church, and don't tell them you used to be a Communist and in fact still think it's a very good system as you're Jewish and proud of it. If you follow these guidelines, you should be ok.

>^..^<

M-G (always glad to help)

UK, Ireland / Poles - go home make your country better [40]


Congratulations sir, you have just won a place in the shortlist for the "Golden Dcikhead"-awards 2010 for the person who makes the most retarded remark. Further nominees will be selected in the next coming months and the election and announcement of the winner will take place on the 20th of December 2010.

>^..^<

M-G (polesandmops must be delighted. M-G thinks though that it's a standard poster under a different nick)

Language / WISŁA or VISTULA?? [46]


I said: there's PASTA in the kitchen. Go eat your sadness away.

:)

for Zed Ygrek: schuijne nauwlettendheid schroothoop taaltechnische schaamte rakelt hoedanigheid en hoedanigheden neuzelen negentig nieuwe fietsreuzen :)

>^..^<

M-G (try)

Language / WISŁA or VISTULA?? [46]


:) actually you would pronounce it like this: Ticzerkstradeel (long e at the end, like in hey; the last S is just a plain S-sound)


Em mer kom pas küum (with the first U as high U like in German Flüstern and the last U as a short e, like in ehm)

Now try to pronounce it :) Really would like to hear you pronounce that high U :)

Edit: now try the following words: verwennerij, verwijdering and tuinarchitekt.

Edit 2: oh and this one is really nasty for non-Dutch: voortschrijdend and zeilzijde :)


Nothing as such, except that it's German - there are also some probs with Warschau instead of Warsaw.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens - there's pasta in the kitchen)

Language / WISŁA or VISTULA?? [46]

The Dutch used to call the Wisla the Wijsel. But nowadays they use either Weichsel, Vistula or Wisla.

I wonder how Poles would pronounce Tietjerkstradeel or Emmercompascuum.

:)

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Work / Getting an entertainment Gig in Poland - how to go about it? [8]


Ah well, usually it's not a problem to get free drinks, however, I've had a few times in NL and in IRE that it really was a problem to negociate free drinks - one club where we played early in the 90's gave us THREE free consumptions per person plus 100 guilders per person. That's all he wanted to afford, the bogger! It was on first Christmas Day. the 25th. He would normally have been closed, no income - now he had the place full and charged 5 Euro entrance, so he did good business that night.

With "no money" I of course meant extra pay on top of the costs you would make to get your equipment over there. A guy to lend a hand is always at hand and that would be the least of your problems. Some parts of my equipment, however, I preferrably carry myself. Like my guitar, amplifyer (with help of course as it was a Fender Dual Showman); the actual amplifyer I carried myself, but for the speaker I used a hand:

Fender Dual Showman


I know, but I don't need to be famous :) That time is behind me and I don't have that much time anyway. I've played in bands for about 15 years, with a pause of about a year when I was recovering from burnwounds as I described in the other thread. As soon as I could use my fingers again, I practiced guitar again and within a few weeks I had the hang of it again. But then the career got in the way and loads of other stuff. Now I feel that I'm too old to go jumping around on stage anymore, so I make music on my own. Also because I have always been compared to Billy Corgan (mentality wise) when in bands. I wrote the songs and they will be played the way I envisioned them, unless it's really an addition, the others will just have to play them the way I want them to play it. Makes sense, right?

>^..^<

M-G (ah, the good old days - jumping around on stage...loved it)

Work / Getting an entertainment Gig in Poland - how to go about it? [8]

Cowpunk is actually pretty old. In the late 80's I saw a few cowpunk bands perform in NL.

But about getting gigs, I would suggest to try the smaller venues on less popular evenings, say Monday- or Tuesday nights. That worked for me as clubmanagers usually are not quite picky for those evenings and already happy if SOME more ppl show up than the standard group of regulars. Also, don't ask money. It's tough enough to get free drinks, so if you can get that, settle for it. If you want to get famous, this is also the best way to start. Let the ppl get to know you and if you play long enough on those "odd" evenings, comes a time you will be having no probs getting a Wednesday- or even a Thursday- or Fridaynight.

I did it like that here in Dublin, but I didn't perform frequently enough due to lack of time. But you could try it. I think clubowners are pretty much the same everywhere, so what worked in Dublin, should work in any bigger city in Poland too.

>^..^<

M-G (did a handful of gigs in Dublin)

Genealogy / Polish person's average height? [210]


I am 1.86 and I'm an average length guy in the Netherlands. My brother is 2 metres. Two friends of mine 2.01 and 2:05 metres, a cousin 1.97 metres. Girls are on average somewhere around 1.75 metres. But then again, the Dutch are the tallest ppl in the world.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Pole who burned himself to protest the 1968 Soviet invasion [81]

I know, wildrover, I know.

Reminds me of that line in "Working Class Hero" from John Lennon:

"They hate you if you're clever and they despise the fool - till you're so fcuking crazy, you can't follow their rule".

Guess Sokrates is a child of his surroundings - maybe it's not too late for him.

You're out there on your own in this life. Nobody's gonna take care of you, you have to do it all alone. If you're proud of your accomplishments you should be so and show it as well. Humbleness is nonsense and only holds you back. I've been always proud of what I've accomplished and there is nothing wrong with that. I'm not arrogant (except to the ones that deserve it), just proud and talk about it. I think if ppl cannot stand that, they have issues themselves. But anyway, if this is going to be a discussion without end, I pass.

>^..^<

M-G (learned that over the years)

History / Pole who burned himself to protest the 1968 Soviet invasion [81]


Oh, I don't, it's just Sokrates after all. Guess he has indeed trouble believing that ppl CAN do more than just ONE thing or CAN have more interests than just ONE. And besides, being burned is not a hobby of mine, it's just sth that has happened to me and is completely loose of the other things I do.

Indeed it seems that Poles have many traits which are apparently so opposite of many traits in the West. Yet we are on the same continent, which also happens to be one of the smallest continents. Iron Curtain is no excuse as the Czechs were behind that as well, yet they are so totally different in their habits and ways than the Poles. It must be sth else. Sth typical Polish.

History / Pole who burned himself to protest the 1968 Soviet invasion [81]


You want to see my scars, you little twat? In fact, I don't hope anybody gets burned as it's a terrible thing to undergo, but for you I gladly make an exception. You deserve to experience it, if only for this remark. Maybe you'll learn for a change. Not everybody's a fake like you, you know. Besides, you seem to have a bit of trouble when ppl are smarter than you, have you? Well, in that case you'll have trouble all the time :))

Can't stand it when ppl have more interests than just one - although I have to say you pretend to know about everything - hm.


True, and even with the most advances plastic surgery it's ruined for the rest of your life.


Of course not. It happened over 20 years ago, but I still remember it to this very day. But keep in mind that Sokidonkey is a troll as there are too many, unfortunately on this forum.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

Law / Signing a contract from Poland Telecommunication (TP) I didn't understand [20]


I did that once and I kept saying "Yo no comprendo", "Yo no comprendo", but it was a tape. I always wanted to say "Yo no comprendo" over the phone to sb. I don't know, it's just a little fetish of mine, I guess. Nothing serious or dangerous, I think.

>^..^<

M-G (did you know that a cat has twice as much muscles in his body than we have?)

History / Pole who burned himself to protest the 1968 Soviet invasion [81]


It happened in February and by early August the last piece of skin on the top of my hand closed, so about half a year. I spent a little over 2 months in the hostpital.

Edit: but I was lucky that I've always been very healthy. It helps speed up the growth of the skin. It really does.


Thank you my friend. And perhaps luckily of all is that my face didn't get deformed but stayed somehow intact. Yeah, you can see it if you look real close, but on first sight you will only see it on my hands and on my legs - the top of my upper leg still have the mesh of the skin transplant on them. I mean, you can still see the mesh IN the skin. No hair will grow there ever again. Afterwards, when the pain (and don't forget the ITCH! Just as bad as the pain, perhaps worse, because you're not allowed to scratch, for you will scratch the new skin open again) has gone, the hard part is the ppl looking at you when you still have bandages on your head and the fact that you have to go to a physio therapist to make your fingers and legs move again. The skin is so thick and inflexible, that you simply cannot use your fingers or legs at all.

Edit: I've seen what can happen to your face when burned. I was lying in a special clinic for burnwounds. A guy was lying there who was a chemical worker. He had combined to materials that produced a suden big flame, right into his face. 1500 degrees. There was no form in his face left. Everything was just melted away.


If I didn't, I would have been burned alive. The whole house was on fire. After it all was over, I was just glad I survived.

You know, everbody has burned a finger on a sigarette or a flame, right? Pretty painful and you have to hold your finger for 15 mins under cold water (it really is true: if you burn yourself, the best thing to do is go either under a cold shower if it's a big part that's burned; this can really save you! If it's your finger, you have to keep it in running cold water until the burn has gone. It really is no fairytale). It hurts pretty much when you burn your finger. Now imagine that pain times 30 or 40 and you get how it feels when half of your body has been burned.

History / Pole who burned himself to protest the 1968 Soviet invasion [81]

About half of my body was covered with burnwounds. It's a long story of how that came to be, and I don't want to tell that, but I had to run through tens of metres of fire.

Believe you me, when you have huge burnwounds, you WILL be screaming. Burnwounds are the most painful wounds one can have. There is no escaping by turning on another side, it's on your skin, ergo all around you. They give you morphine to ease the pain. And that doesn't work if both of your legs, your face, head, hands and parts of your arms have 2nd degree burnwounds. They stopped giving it to me because otherwise I would get addicted. In the hospital they told me that the 3rd, the 7th and the 11th day were the worst.

And it's true. On the third day, liquid starts to pour into the affected areas; you have to drink a lot, else you will dry up literally and you'll die. My legs after three days were more than twice as big as they were before, so was my head, my hands. It was black, pieces of skin were hanging off and my legs were one big skinless mass. Before it happend I weighed 83 kg, 4 days later I weighed 135 kg. And every day they have to change the bandages. They pour luke-warm water over the bandages, so they won't stick too much to the wounds. But they still stick. And if you experienced nurses pulling off metres of bandages that stick to huge skinless mass with all the nerve-endings wide open, you won't complain anymore if you fall on your face. Speaking of face: on the 5th day I insisted they bring me a mirror to see how I looked. They were reluctant, but I insisted. And when I looked in the mirror I knew why they were so hesitant: I saw a big black ball with two smaller balls bulging out of that and they were half open. They were my eyse.

The seventh day they start to peel off the the skin off the wounds. They have to, else the skin won't revitalise. I nearly fainted. They plunged a needle in my croch, right at the point where the leg starts, in that corner beside your balls, to tap sth in my blood. The needle was 7 inches long. On the eleventh day the remainder of the skin starts to rot and it has to rot away to make way for the new skin. After that it takes months and a skin transplant to get the skin going again. You will have to learn to walk all over again as the new skin is too tight and not flexible yet.

They told me that 52 per cent of my body was burned. Had it been 72 per cent, I would have died. It's also the reason why I don't have hair anymore.

You really think that when you see sb in flames and screaming, he's exaggerating? I know from experience that he isn't.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Was there sex in Poland during communist regime? [60]

Actually, was there open prostitution in Communist Poland? I mean, those red lights must have been a mighty factor of attraction for the commies?

Or was there no prostitution in Poland, like there is absolutely no prostitution in Ireland since they closed or burned down that area, forget it's name, but Joyce writes about it, close to Talbot Street in Dublin?

>^..^<

M-G (always curious for these kinda stories, grin)

History / Was there sex in Poland during communist regime? [60]


Bah, prnography on PF!

Hm, that guy in the background, I wonder what he is thinking by the looks of him :)

>^..^<

M-G (ah well, sex in the 80's was a hairy event anyway)

History / Polish civilization is older than English or French. Why do Poland follow them? [64]


How about Stonehenge? And Tara?

European civilisations are indeed just about equally old.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Was there sex in Poland during communist regime? [60]


Heck no! Yikes, sex! That's just commie propaganda! Those children magically appeared from out of the ground and sex was just a rotten Communist lie.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

Answer the question: if it's all so Glorious in Poland, why do you live somewhere else?

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

If it's so Glorious, why don't you live in Poland? At least, if I would think of my home country as being so Glorious, I would want to live there, not fleeing it like a rat flees a sinking ship.

And btw, Jews went to the North, not to the East after they were expelled from Spain and Portugal.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

You don't understand, do you? Well, I expected that. Let's not talk about how many ppl were killed by Jews. Because it's only gonna be rubbish from your part again. After my dinner I will continue. And you won't be around then.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

It has to do everything with the original topic and yet again you fail to see that Kielce is just an example on which you can hang this chain of responses theory.

Edit: this is only the first step, the chain in its most rudimentary form, in a clear and straight line. After my dinner I will go to the second step. This will be on a more meta physical level, but I will try and explain it as simple as pssbl.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]

Ok, enough fun with ender now, I want to go back to the original topic - Incident-Impact-Repercussions-Long Term Reverberations and how they are handled.

As per following the earlier example:

Incident: Kielce
Impact: newpaper readers all over Europe and the world read about and are disgusted and wants as an immediate response the heads of the perpetrators.

Repercussions: the perpetrators get caught, tried and sentenced, questions get asked in, for example, parliament.
Reverberations: the Poles get the image of anti semitic (in this example, in any other example, the reverberations will of course be different)

Timeframe could be anything from 1 to 100 years. Incident is replaceable for any incident; Impact can differ from locally to globally, given means of reporting; also the time between incident and impact is important. In the Middle Ages there was sometimes up to years between an event and the time that sb at the other end of the country or continent heard about it. Nowadays it may take as short as an hour or even less, given the ocurrance of Internet. (Long Term -) Repercussions depend of course on the nature of the incident, but are fairly fixed. Reverberations depend on the level of tolerance the general public has built up, either by previous similar incidents, a growing numbness or a fixture on one's own.

If anybody, except ender, wants to add sth to this chain, he/she is welcome to do so.

>^..^<

M-G (simple chain on how events change perceptions and perspectives)

News / Poland's elite more pro-US than society? [29]


Maybe it has sth to do with the fact that Poles consider the US the winner of the Cold War and has as such liberated from he hated system that has yoked them for decades? It's normal for ppl who have been terrorized by one group to run to the other group once liberated from them. This might explain also Poland's eagerness to join the NATO, EU and the like.

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


Says the creature that says this:


Did you know that for that remark, I could have you arrested? Gonna be a jailbird, dude :)

Thankfully the mods heeded my request and removed all the nice things you had to say to me, uncalled.

But:

Ahw, does it hurt to get a taste of your own medicine back? You were quite on a roll last night, weren't you? If you're that keen on reading my posts back, you can see, as everybody else can, that I only react to insults thrown my way and then the original insulters start crying that I'm a "verbal terrorist". Well, it's not gonna happen. Perhaps others are too decent to reply to you with your same methods, I've had just about enough of all the insults you morons throw at me and what even disgusts me more is that you're acting like little children by starting crying when I return the favour. You are a sick and disturbed individual and you really balance on the edge. I would suggest you seek some professional help before you kill sb.

Unluckily for you, I can use the same methods you guys use, not as freely as you use it, but if necessary I will use it as I had more than enough of idiots like you and your kind and there are a lots of other ppl on here who had enough of it. Difference between you and me is that I can switch it off at any time I want to, but for you and your kind it's a way of life, it seems.

Now, will that be all as far as you is concerned? Yes? You know the way out the door. Ciao and don't come back here. Thanks for your effort, there's coffee if you want and a cookie. You can drink and eat that while you're on the way to the bus.

So, after this anomaly, we can continue with the original issue at hand? The chain Incident-Impact-Repercussions-Long Term Reverberations by means of the example Kielce?

>^..^<

M-G (tiens)

History / Polish history is 100% glorious [297]


That was actually the Jedwabne commemorating service. He did what every decent person would do. That he in fact is half Jewish has nothing to do with it.

Anyway, this thread was about historical techniques and then MediaWatch comes along and feels the need, like he always feels the need, to "show the other side of things" when it concerns Poles killing Jews. It was uncalled for as the discussion was not about the actual killing initially, but about the chain of incident-direct impact-long lasting repercussions and reverberations. Too bad our friend from the other side didn't notice this, saw the words "Jews-Poles-Faster-Pussicat-Kill-Kill-Kill" and thought it was time to re-introduce ...The Stalin Jews! into the discussion once more. I take blame for the part that I allowed the discussion to derange into the realms where illustrations are being discussed more than the key point at hand.

Strangely enough, MediaWatch never feels the urge to "show the other side of things" when it's concerning Jews killing Poles. Anyway, the gates of hell were opened and all of the standard Golgothians came from their pile to give it a go. None of them introduced sth new into the discussion. All of the arguments -if there were any arguments besides the usual insulting and ranting- fell within the scope of the 5 myths that haunt Polish history for the last 70-80 years. Well, at least one myth has been busted: the myth of the Jewish Communism. As it turns out this has been an invention of the propaganda machine of the White Armies during the Russian Civil War. And it's only thanks to the quality of the propaganda machine of the Whites that this fairy tale is still in the heads of ppl. Nobody has denied there were Jews within the ranks of the commies, but the statement that the vast majority of the commies were Jews is a gross exaggeration: by far the most functionaries within the Communist Party in Poland were Poles. But then again, it's hard to go kill your own ppl based on the fact that they were an active member of a party you don't like, so what do you do in that case if you really want to vent your anger and agression? You go look for members of that hated party that are not part of your own group. It's very basic psychology. And you find that there are....Jews! member of the Communist Party. Aha! There you have your vent! And this vent gets used and abused for many decades since its conception.

Then a one braincelled creature comes along, showing us 100 times the same fragment of a film in which a woman sitting on a chair is being excecuted by Polish soldiers and claims this to be a Jewish film. Unfortunately he cannot or won't give us the name of that particular movie, so we cannot check whether it is indeed a Jewish movie or not. And then the creature accuses me of lying because I am supposed to have claimed that in July 1941, 5 years before the events we are discussing, 1600 Jews were driven into a barm, that consequently was set ablaze - the historians are not yet clear whether it was Soviet leftover gasoline they used or petrol provided by the Germans. Anyhow, this creature introduces this into the discussion, alongside of the usual rants and superficial statements that he is proud to be an anti semite, never mind the dispiccable nature of such a statement and then accuses me of stating that there were 1600 Jews burned in the shed. It's a nice way of trying to lock a discussion: introducing an issue into the discussion, which has nothing to do with the actual topic at hand and then accusing sb else of lying about it. Nice, but predictable technique. Then it shows me a wiki page of a Jewish Communist police functionary in the 1950's. In 1949 he became head of some dept and this of course is proof that the commies were behind it all. Miraculous how everybody fails to acknowledge that the atmosphere could've been so poisoned and tensed that even a silly lie by an 8-year old boy could spark some extended lynch-party. They state that the incident was staged by the commies from start to finish. I think it was the natural outcome, the accumulation of a very tensed period in Polish history and that many were shocked in fact as they perhaps hadn't realised that tensions were so high it could even lead to murder of innocent survivors. I have stated that before and I state it here again.

After heading through the storm of usual insults, rantings and even lower intelligenced remarks thrown at myself, I have come to the conclusion that some Poles are not yet ready to admit any dark pages in their own history, yet are keen to point out dark pages in other's histories. I expected that and I am not surprised by it.

So far the summary of the rounds so far. Time for a new round - let the games begin; I'm curious what they will come up next with. My best bet would be sth that stems from one fo the five mentioned myths. Good luck guys :)


Not true. I was talking about historical techniques and trying to explain Ironside how historians worked and thereby used Kielce as an example, nothing more. Then MW bashes in and spoils the discussion. I take responsibility for letting it getting out of hand, but I do not try to convince anybody that PL was hell on earth for Jews. I just want some hardcore idiots on this forum to admit that it were Poles who did this. Has nothing to do with Jews, just with the point that ppl must find the courage to admit that even their own history has dark pages. That's all. And it's quite amusing so far to hear all the stereotypes gallopping by and actually nothing new is introduced, yet they refuse.

>^..^<

M-G (wonders what's next)