History / Whom do the people in Poland hate more: Germans or Russians? [869]


Poland lost ~6 million people, not 11 million.

History / The restoration of Polish cities from WW2 destruction [123]

Legnica looked like this after the war:

I see a almost completely preserved town.
And today:

History / The restoration of Polish cities from WW2 destruction [123]

The pictures show the situation long after 1945. They show the the burned out castle, which indeed happened directly after the war, and the mostly preserved old town.

Maybe you should be treated like a student. The destruction of the preserved, historic old town of Legnica after 1965 is well known among historians and conservators, since it affected the largest preserved area of Prussian rococo architecture. That Prussian heritage was the reason for the negligence and final destruction.

History / The restoration of Polish cities from WW2 destruction [123]


Then tell my way the rubble of war is so cleanly removed?! The Polish source, which hosts the pic, also says 1950-1980.


True. I checked my sources, and it was indeed February. Sorry.


This happened everywhere but didn't necessarily destroy entire towns. And in the case of Legnica the old town was still in pretty good shape, like the pictures suggest and the sources confirm.

The Russian troops usually didn't care about urban management. It was mostly a Polish effort, in line with events in other parts of the recovered territories.

I'm not German, and pointing out to the not so nice parts of the Polish history isn't complaining but a gentle push to accept the darker sides of history too.

History / The restoration of Polish cities from WW2 destruction [123]

In the context of the topic of this thread, the destruction of countless preserved quarters in the recovered territories to rebuild Warsaw and the planned destruction (graveyards, monuments, epitaphs) or deliberate neglect (castles, parks, churches, graveyards) of heritage with a distinctive German character.

Usually the public opinion in Poland still helds the war responsible for all destructions, while Poland is usually seen as the great reconstructor. But the truth is that these destructions weren't the result of scarce resources but of an ideology which forcibly destroyed German heritage.


Look at my pics again. Most houses still have roofs. Burned out houses don't have roofs. The old town of Legnica was *not* completely burned out.


I don't complain about reconstruction but about destruction.... and have to turn to the originator, which, in this case, is Poland.

History / The restoration of Polish cities from WW2 destruction [123]

Entire towns were seldom demolished because of the German origin but rather forfeit due to, how to call it... emotional resistance by the new owners, and later destroyed. Prominent examples of towns damaged or even completely destroyed after the war can be found mostly in Silesia, since the war didn't affect the southern part. Jelenia Gora, Klotzko, Luban, Strzelin, Lwówek Śląski, Legnica, Nysa, Brzeg are examples of towns that suffered after the war. Some lost their old town entirely after the war, like Jelenia Gora and Legnica, others were damaged to rebuild Warsaw, like Brzeg, Nysa and Wrocław.

History / The restoration of Polish cities from WW2 destruction [123]


Why? Klotzkos old town was partly destroyed between 1959 and 1970 due to subsidence damages, which the new owners of the town didn't correct at an early stage.


Then Poles historians lie, since my Polish source mentions Legnica and Lwówek Śląski. And btw., all Communist regimes prefered to built precast concrete slabs to counter the housing shortage, since it was much cheaper than preserving historic town centers.


So, you think the old town of Jelenia Gora always looked like this:

Because, earlier the town looked like this:

Strange, isn't it? But since you ignored the pictures of Legnica too I think you don't want to know the truth but prefer to believe in your little fairy tale.

Oh, and thank you for calling me an idiot, you uninformed *]/%°>.


As I previously said, not everything can be explained by the war. During the early 50s Wrocław delivered up to 165 million bricks to Warsaw... each year. The whole eastern part of the old town, which was partly rebuildable, was sacrificed for it. Usually people like you have no clue how big the old town of Wrocław actually was.

But Wrocław is a completely different case anyway, since it was the main stage of the Communist propaganda efforts.


That's all I want to say here... ;)

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

How can a society without a developed urban middle class (missing industry and cities) be "one of the most innovative, tolerant and advanced countries"? Who was innovative and developed this "advanced" country? The Szlachta? Or the serfs?

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


Must be a different game, since Swiss mercenaries and Landsknechts dominated much of Central and Western Europe back then.

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]

@PolskiMoc
Maybe you should turn off the computer for a while and read some books... it hurts. :D

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


At that time Prussia had around 190.000 soldiers. There was a reason why it was called a army with a country.
But ultimately it was Polands own weakness. Poland wasn't the only country which was surrounded by enemies. Brandenburg-Prussia was, since 1650, at war or attacked by France, Denmark, Sweden, Austria, Russia and Saxony. Earlier it was almost wiped out during the Thirty Years War, lost an enormous amount of people and was pushed around by almost all neighbours (including Poland), since it was so weak.

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


The Landwehr was estalished in 1813, after the defeat by the French in 1806. After the French defeat the Prussian army was indeed limited to ~42.000 men. During Fredericks time the army was much bigger.

You are a bit misinformed about Prussias might I'm afraid. Prussia lost around 500.000 people during Fredericks wars, but gained 3 million people, among them 250.000 immigrants. And he tripled public revenues between 1740 and 1786. Bad were only the first few years after the Silesian Wars, but the army was never affected by this, because nothing was more important than the army.

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


I don't have any books about it, but have a look at the numbers here:
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altpreu%C3%9Fische_Heeresorganisation

The two tables are interesting. Number of artillery and field guns. Doesn't look like a country in a serious economic crisis... ;)

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


Prussia wasn't Germany. Keep in mind that, for instance, Austria and Saxony were often at war with Prussia. Prussia itself had only 2.4 million people in 1740 and 5,6 million at the end of Fredericks reign.

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


But we don't talk about the 19th century here but about the 18th century. And in the 18th century Prussia was way smaller than Poland, and yet became one of the great European powers. The number of people isn't everything.

History / Where did the power of Poland vanish to, since... let`s say, some 300 years ago? [180]


You have a limited view on German history. The different German states, most notably Prussia, often fought on several fronts. That's not the problem. The problem is to survive such a situation.

Poland and Brandenburg-Prussia were in the same situation, both were surrounded by enemies. The enemy of Brandenburg-Prussia was mainly Austria, but also France, Russia and Sweden, while stronger Poland had to be treated carefully because of Eastern Prussia. If you compare what Prussia and Poland did since ~1650 you see what went wrong in Poland. After the horrible losses of the Thirty Years War Prussia deprived the estates from power and centralized the government, invited a large amount of well skilled people, reclaimed land, built new villages and towns, reformed the army and avoided any trouble until the reforms showed success (during Fredericks reign). This changed the balance of power in Europe, which led to the war against Austria and the partitions of Poland, which were mainly done to built a new balance between Prussia and Russia.

Language / Is Polish amongst the best-sounding languages in the world? [123]

Absolutely not. To many sibilants. No Slavic language sounds good. The best sounding languages are Romance, like French or Italian. They sound, ahhm, balanced.

History / 'Defamation': The Anti-Semism Industry & Poland [188]


Yes. And it's also quite funny that the complexes of Jews are discussed in a forum full of complexes. Just look what the forum offers as similar discussions: "ANTI-POLONISM IN EUROPE", "MORE ANTI-POLISH SENTIMENT IN GERMANY"...

LOL

Genealogy / What are common Polish character traits? [417]


I love such generalisations. My russian girlsfriend, and most of her friends, are pretty strong. They must be, since growing up in such a mess like Russia needs a strong will. The same is true for all women in slavic countries, since all these societies changed very much in the last 20 years. Compared to Slavic women women in western, stable countries get pampered.

The only difference I notice is that Slavic women prefer a more traditional role in a relationship, since their societies are much more traditional too. But even here I see a big difference between, lets say, Czech and Russian women.

Food / Polish Pizza !! The best in the world? [330]


Wasn't Pizza invented in Poland? I've heard it was originally called Picszta? Same as Sushi, which the Poles invented as Szsusczi.

History / Poland: Her heroes and her traitors [221]

Add the Silesian Piasts to the list of traitors, which not only preferred Bohemia over Poland but also became Germanised...

History / So called "inconvenient parts" of Polish history - what do you think? [157]


Not really a Slavic thing, more a thing of Eastern European nations. Many of these nations didn't exist for along time since they were part of Austria, Prussia or Poland; and later, when these nations were reestablished, they became satellite states of the Soviet Union. All this time nationalism was needed for self-assertion. In Western Europe however this kind of 19th century nationalism was countered with the establishment of the European Union after WW2, and these close contacts with other nations helped to push back nationalism. That's why Western Europeans often feel somewhat alienated when talking to Eastern Europeans, since they can't relate to this rhetoric anymore.

Life / Are Polish roads really this bad? [237]


You mean, otherwise we would drive on 80yo roads today???

Back to topic: the roads aren't that bad. Polands biggest problem is the lack of highways, which makes long distance drives a torture, especially because of reckless driving.

Travel / Why do you visit Poland? [223]

For architecture and history, as a tourist. And the country is so much better than this forum suggests... :D

History / So called "inconvenient parts" of Polish history - what do you think? [157]


I think that's the main reason for todays Polish Anti-Semitism. Poles and Jews are in a victim competition. Both share the same self-image as the biggest victims, and both can't forgive the other side which claims to be the bigger victim.

History / Pomerania -a Polish land since the creation of Poland and the German invaders. [60]

Which sights in Pomerania do Poles usually visit to remember the great Polish past of the region?

History / Pomerania -a Polish land since the creation of Poland and the German invaders. [60]


And? Pomeranians weren't Poles, they actually fought against them and were later Germanized.

History / Pomerania -a Polish land since the creation of Poland and the German invaders. [60]


And in 1940 Germany had Poland. What's your point?

History / Pomerania -a Polish land since the creation of Poland and the German invaders. [60]

So, Silesia is Czech and East Prussia German? And almost everything else Italian?

History / Pomerania -a Polish land since the creation of Poland and the German invaders. [60]


No, Greater Moravia was the first COUNTRY to own Silesia, followed by Bohemia, and as you said, that's all what counts. So, get out of Silesia, it's rightfully Czech.


I spoke about Europe as a whole. France, Spain, Portugal, England... all Italian.