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Pomerania -a Polish land since the creation of Poland and the German invaders.


Mieszkoł Iszy
1 Jul 2011 #1
From time to time we can hear voices coming from Germany saying that the Germans have some rights to the Polish land of Pomerania.Now,how can the Germans be such a filthy liars since everyone who studied some history knows that the first Polish monarch Mieszko I made a deal with the main German dude of that time Emperor Otto I and basically bought all the rights to Pomerania?It was only one cheeky German Odo I of Lusatia who soon after tried to challange rightfull Poland's gains and attacked peacefull as always Poles.But no one messes with Mieszko and as soon as the German crook Odo and his army entered Polish land in 972 Mieszko I and his glorious warriors whooped German a$$es at Cedynia and the survived Germans ran back to their land of Germany crying loud.So I am asking how can Germans claim Pomerania as a German land?I don't get it.Anybody does?
guesswho 4 | 1,289
1 Jul 2011 #2
since everyone who studied some history

you see there's one huge problem here, different countries teach different history and this is why Poles believe that no one else knows history but you guys. Now, if you really start digging, you'll have to admit that not everything black is black and not everything white is white, at least not the way you always assumed it is. I believe that comparing and discussing in a civilized manner is the only way to understand each other. Look, you already called Germans filthy liars and I bet, you've never even thought about it for a minute that maybe not everything you've learned so far is 100% true. For one, none of us really knows what really happened back then. All we know is what they teach us (wherever it may be) and history, however fascinating, is always based on the needs of the current political system of your country. Do you believe that they always tell us the truth? That would be really naive to believe it, don't you think? This is a great thread and I hope, whoever will participate here, will behave properly.

I'll join you after a little break.
legend 3 | 664
1 Jul 2011 #3
Germans usually argue that the land belonged to Germanics before Poles.

The problem I have with this is Germanics were a people who made Germany AND other countries.

if someone says German = Germanic
then why not say Pole = Slavic.

So perhaps there were "Germanic" tribes there but tribes move.
Look at the Magyars or Bulgars who came wayyy from the east.

I havent slept much but essentially the land of Pomerania was part of "Poland" before there ever was a Germany. (East Pomerania for sure west pomerania I dont feel like arguing about).
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
1 Jul 2011 #4
It is now the 21st Century, and debates about historical events between Germany and Poland are interesting, and deserve to be investigated and discussed...However, there should be no arguments about ownership of certain territories, as too much water has flowed under the bridge, and there is too much intermingling of national peoples for this to serve a realistic purpose.

But I would suggest the ideas about Slavic union would go some way to clearing up mis-perceptions in historical reality about events that happened in the past and would give a better awareness to Poles and other Slavs about their history, and improve education.
pgtx 30 | 3,156
1 Jul 2011 #5
Bratwurst Boy, if you keep moving from the random your abusive comments, you'll get suspended.
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,163
1 Jul 2011 #6
But I would suggest the ideas about Slavic union would go some way to clearing up mis-perceptions in historical reality about events that happened in the past and would give a better awareness to Poles and other Slavs about their history, and improve education.

Only if they find ways to agree with their histories...
OP Mieszkoł Iszy
1 Jul 2011 #7
German since 500 BC ! ;)

Sold to Poland in a legitimate transaction by German Emperor Otto I.Polish since 972 AD!
Ziemowit 13 | 4,441
1 Jul 2011 #8
Mieskoł Iszy
Your knowledge of history is deplorable. The Slavic Pomeranians were a different tribe than the Polish tribes. For centuries they fought bravely against both the Germans as well as the Polish. They often sided with one side or the other in the perpetual wars of the time between Poland and Germany. What they probably wanted was to be left in peace and in paganism which both sides did not want to grant them.
Monia
1 Jul 2011 #9
The Slavic Pomeranians were a different tribe than the Polish tribes.

Not true , Pomeranians are slavic tribes , check the internet data about this subject .
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,163
1 Jul 2011 #10
Sold to Poland in a legitimate transaction by German Emperor Otto I.Polish since 972 AD!

So what? Did they sold the people too?? ;)

Poland was once legitimate part of Prussia, Russia and Austria! Totally legal ;)
legend 3 | 664
1 Jul 2011 #11
Not true , Pomeranians are slavic tribes , check the internet data about this subject .

I think what he means is that there were slavs in Western Europe that didnt fully become part of Poland
(Obotrites, Veleti, Pomeranians, etc).
joepilsudski 26 | 1,389
1 Jul 2011 #12
Poland was once legitimate part of Prussia, Russia and Austria! Totally legal ;)

Just like Palestine is 'part of 'Israel".

BTW, has Merkel visited Tel Aviv or Jerusalem yet this month?
Bratwurst Boy 12 | 11,163
1 Jul 2011 #13
Maybe pgtx will leave my links alone this time...

...During the Iron Age, Western Pomerania belonged to the Jastorf culture[9] (550-50 BC).[10] As before during the Bronze Age, the dead were burned and the ashes buried in urns. Settlements and urn grave fields with artefacts were found e.g. in the then densely settled Greifswald area.[41]

The Jastorf culture is associated with early Germanic peoples.Western Pomerania belonged to the Warnow-Oder estituary subgroup of the Jastorf culture,[11] the easternmost group is designated Oder group.[42] The Oder group, formerly thought to have emerged after an immigration from Bornholm, is now thought to have evolved from a local population formerly belonging to the Pomeranian culture and the Göritz group of the Lusatian culture, who first adapted to new habits and later mingeld with a Germanic population from the West.[43]...

German since 500 BC

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_history_of_Pomerania

...It is assumed that Burgundians, Goths and Gepids with parts of the Rugians left Pomerania during the late Roman Age, and that during the migration period, remnants of Rugians, Vistula Veneti, Vidivarii and other, Germanic tribes remained and formed units that were later Slavicized.[14

Then slavicized Germans....(assumed). Now who was the invader?
Palivec - | 380
1 Jul 2011 #14
Which sights in Pomerania do Poles usually visit to remember the great Polish past of the region?
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
1 Jul 2011 #15
Not true , Pomeranians are slavic tribes , check the internet data about this subject .

If it was only as easy as finding some sh1te on the internet then misunderstanding it.

Just like Palestine is 'part of 'Israel".

Yes, it is.

Pommern means absolutely nothing in German

And York means nothing in modern English, but nobody's suggesting that the UK should cede sovereignty over it.

arsehole alarm

Indeed.
OP Mieszkoł Iszy
1 Jul 2011 #16
I think you are mistaking them with Prussians.
Ziemowit 13 | 4,441
1 Jul 2011 #17
Ziemowit: The Slavic Pomeranians were a different tribe than the Polish tribes. Not true , Pomeranians are slavic tribes , check the internet data about this subject .

You have clearly misread me. I didn't say they were not Slavic (I actually said: "the Slavic Pomeranians). I said these tribes - as there were in fact several of them - were not Polish and never wanted to be Polish (or German for that matter). Rather than directing people to the internet, first read more carefully what others have written.

I think you are mistaking them with Prussians.

I think I do not. Rather than repeating the theses of the Polish communist propaganda regarding the Pomeranian issue in the Middle Ages, you should start reading a decent Polish history book describing their very harsh resistance to the Polish forces of Bolesław Chrobry or Bolesław Krzywosty conquering them and imposing Christianity on them.
Monia
1 Jul 2011 #18
Western Pomerania

what about the rest of Pomerania ?
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
1 Jul 2011 #19
the rest of

An odd comment. Unless you think that West equals East.
ender 5 | 398
1 Jul 2011 #20
NOW I know whoyou are. :-) Unless you actually speak Polish you will understand.
And yes there is still few poeple around Berlin actually knows few Slavic words.
JonnyM 11 | 2,620
1 Jul 2011 #21
Unless you actually speak Polish you will understand.

Very well, actually.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
1 Jul 2011 #22
Pole = Slavic.

the answer is really easy, because Pole = Slav (almost always) but Slav not always = Pole, it could be a Czech, Ukrainian etc.

So perhaps there were "Germanic" tribes there but tribes move.

Exactly, they do and that's why it's so hard to determine today who was where first and that's why we all learn different history about it.

Look, who will you consider a child's parent, a person who adopts it and takes good care of it for the most of its life or someone who just brought it into this world and then gave it away for adoption?

I see it the same way with countries.
grubas 12 | 1,390
1 Jul 2011 #23
Exactly, they do and that's why it's so hard to determine today who was where first and that's why we all learn different history about it. Look, who will you consider a child's parent, a person who adopts it and takes good care of it for the most of its life or someone who just brought it into this world and then gave it away for adoption?

Exactly,therfore Pomerania rightfully Polish.No doubt in my mind.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
1 Jul 2011 #25
Exactly

what do you agree to, Grubas?
To the part "who will you consider a child's parent, a person who adopts it and takes good care of it for the most of its life or someone who just brought it into this world and then gave it away for adoption?"

In case this is what you mean than tell me, which country did Pomerania belong to for the most of its existence, Poland or Germany (Prussia)? Please provide time table if you can (and stay calm, let's discuss).
grubas 12 | 1,390
1 Jul 2011 #26
what do you agree to, Grubas?

I agree that Pomerania is rightfully Polish.The German left and the Poles took good care of this land so now it's ours.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
1 Jul 2011 #27
The German left and the Poles took good care of this land so now it's ours.

but the Germans had to leave after the WWII. It's not that they left because they wanted to leave.
Before we go any further with this topic, Pomerania is Polish now and there's no doubt about it. No one wants it back or will start another war over it. We're talking here about the past of Pomerania and according to the information I have, it was in German (Prussian) hands longer than in Polish. I'd like to compare my information with yours, that's all.

Perfectly useless and pointless thread. All it does is flame.

Generally (as seen on PF) you're right but maybe this time, we'll be able to discuss without arguing and calling names (I hope).
alexw68
1 Jul 2011 #28
And York means nothing in modern English, but nobody's suggesting that the UK should cede sovereignty over it.

Nor does Melton Mowbray.

Wait a minute. That might be an electable proposition.
ender 5 | 398
1 Jul 2011 #29
We're talking here about the past of Pomerania and according to the information I have, it was in German (Prussian) hands longer than in Polish.

TRUE
Keep in mind that Gdańsk was in Polish hands longer then German (Prussian) you can find dates here in PF. And then Germans claims Gdańsk as a German city because of German population there.
guesswho 4 | 1,289
2 Jul 2011 #30
Keep in mind that Gdańsk was in Polish hands longer then German (Prussian)

there's only one problem here, even in times when the city was associated with Poland, the population was still mainly German and they spoke German language.


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