Language / Game - guess Polish idioms/sayings in direct English translation [1756]

I must remember this one too. :) - to live in poverty. Sorry, I offer the most basic translation, I don`t have time to google for English idiomatic expressions.

Language / Game - guess Polish idioms/sayings in direct English translation [1756]

Ha, a good one! It took me a while to guess it - drink some alcohol.

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]

If anyone has doubts about Polish German good relations today, try to improve your knowledge of history of Poland. Paradoxically, it was Poles who first extended a hand of friendship to Germans. It happened as early as in 1965 and is considered as a crucial starting act of Polish German reconciliation.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Letter_of_Reconciliation_of_the_Polish_Bishops_to_the_German_Bishops

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]

Sorry, too late, This topic is closed for me, unless you want to offer some new insight but you don`t so I suggest we meet in another thread of the series. See you there, we are counting on you.

Must go, tomorrow I am running 13 classes.
Good night.

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]

Dear guys,

Thanks for participating. I have learnt a lot from your posts. Now I see the title of the thread was wrong, not "are disliked" but "may be disliked" would be better. It seems Germans are not prejudiced to dislike Poland in general, just because. If they dislike anything here, they are particular things like PiS government etc.

How about meeting again in a similar thread like this?. I thought of discussing Poland`s other neighbours. Germany was first, shall we go clockwise or counterclws.?

If you feel like, you can start such a thread, why not. But mind one thing - don`t forget to offer all reasons in the first post. If you add sth later on, like me, it might be easily overlooked among a series of reply posts.

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


Did they drink Polish vodka? It always works wonders in bringing people closer together.
Well, once I had an opportunity to share a few drinks (not vodka but beer in a pub) with some German teachers who came here with exchange students. Indeed, they didn`t give the impression of having a dislike bias against Poland from the start. Although after some time, they admitted to having expected much worse situation as far as living standard was concerned, e..g, horse carts in streets and other signs of acute poverty. They saw it wasn`t so bad after all.

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


I see, a Polish attitude generation gap, sort of.

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


Oh, I see.


Yes, a good point, only some Germans are leftists. CDU CSU still gather majority of votes and that new right wing AFD is getting stronger too. Probably the German media are more leftist than Germans themselves.

So, I wouldn`t attach so much importance to this ideology when discussing dislikes.


You have the right not to give a damn about it.
But, do you suggest you also have the right to impose your point of view on others who are interested in the issue?

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


Yes, the problem is that when they cease being the margin and become a real power, then it is too late to stop ignoring them.

I feeI I must turn in.

Before I leave, let me remind all posters about the last Reason No 6 - Religious in this post https://polishforums.com/history/poland-poles-disliked-germans-84481/#msg1673150 called Ardent Catholic vs Lukewarm Protestant

So far, nobody has commented on it.

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


The general attitude of Germans voicing their opinions about Poland there is positive. Of course, I haven`t tried ultra nationalist German sites, then it might be different.

But a typical post looks like this:
Wolfgang
No, I do not see reasons why I should dislike Poland, I do have some Polish friends and colleagues who are all very nice persons. And I visited Poznan which is a nice and beautiful city. But I dislike statements of some Polish politicians who seem to be obsessed of the idea that Germany is hostile towards Poland together with a very conservative point of view which I do not share at all. On the other hand I can understand this obsession given the history we share...Finally, I think one cannot dislike a country ...

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


You called me a liberal and leftist. Now it is socialist. Soon you will call me a communist. Will I later learn that I am Che incarnate?


Now, I must react seriously, killing animals without purpose is a sign of utter primitivism. Don`t even admit it in public. Educated Poles would never do or say such things. You can`t be Polish.

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]

Now I am reading various blogs and fora which deal with the topic. To relieve some tension here, let me present a funny entry by a German woman :

I hate poles! You see I have this genetic condition called HEDS and one of the most observable effects of it is a lack of proprioception that makes me very clumsy. I'm rarely aware of where all my body parts are in space, so often I hit poles as I'm walking... not a full face hit but slightly with my shoulder or other body parts.

Although I must say this is not exclusive to poles, I have also slammed myself into columns pillars and door frames and I hate those too.

Now, given that this condition is rare, I can't imagine too many Germans share my hatred of poles and other architectural structures, then again I know at least one who hit one head on after a few too many beers, so presumably there is a small minority of Germans (myself included) who hate poles, however I can't imagine we are significantly more than the minorities in other countries who share our feelings.

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]

That`s interesting, I think the contrary. Look at what bees or ants are able to do. Individual approach will never reach that level.

Of course, let`s forget about collectivism in Soviet style which was a really wasteful economy.

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


Yes, now we may ponder if such a difference in mentality is important enough to create a dislike on the part of one nation towards another and if it can do it on its own.

On the face to face level, I suppose it doesn`t matter. People just don`t care if they meet a collective oriented person or the opposite.

However, on the level of nations, it might play a role. The thing that comes to my mind is that a collectively organised society is capable of achieving a better outcome from their performance, because collective work always brings about more effects than individual one. So, we may presume that collective approach causes that the country is run more efficiently than the one where individual approach is a lifestyle. Eventually, such a country is richer.

In this way, I wouldn`t treat your supposition of collective vs individual approach as a seperate notion but would include it into Reason 3 Economic - Rich Germany vs Not so rich/poorer Poland


Oh, I see. Thank you, your contribution is highly appreciated.

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


You still don`t understand, To debate the problem you are putting forward, we would have to first start a thread entitled: Should we or not discuss such topics as why Germans dislike Poles?

To save time and energy, I, as the OP of this thread, decided to skip that Should discussion and get straight to business. So, I am reminding you again, the title of this thread is what it is and try to stick to it. If you can`t, why are you here? Start your own Should thread and use your energy there, I don`t mind.

Simple, love it or leave it.
Sorry but in terms of logical discourse, you are losing, I am sure you feel it, that is why you are so aggressive, with that name calling etc earlier on. You do`nt care about any victims, you just object for the mere joy of it. Are you strong enough to admit it? Not even in public, but to yourself.

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


Yes, that is my impression, too. There are Germans liking Poles and the other way round, too. But other Germans don`t share your positive attitude and I wanted to make sure if my suppositions about their dislike were correct.

PS. How about The Other who used to employ a strong antiPolish pro German rhetoric a few years ago when I exchanged opinions with him/her .

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


If I meant that, I would write uncleanly or similar. By messy I meant disorganised in doing things in life.


Call it as you want, if orders come from law they pass in Germany, then it is law -abiding.


They don`t have to be trying, it comes so natural, doesn`t it? You`d better think and do sth so that Poland reaches a similar status as Germany in Europe. But no, you won`t because all you can do is whine about wronged Poles.

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


Please, relax. The thread is about reasons why Germans might not like Poles. It is not a thread denying the martyrology of the noble Polish nation. Nobody suggested it here. As simple as that.

Try to win the debate, but first of all you should stick to its subject matter.

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


Yes, indeed but it works both ways, for like and dislike, as you rightly suggested.
Therefore, we can`t take it into consideration because this thread is about dislikes only.


This means you agree with Reason 4.

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


Please, relax, remember we don`t want to hurt you.


When was that? Should we also remember that once Swedes attacked and destroyed Poland and hold it against them?


Yes, we are discussing it because "barbarians" are long gone and I don`t feel being a victim. Do you think some topics are taboo?

PS. On second thoughts, , actually, yes, I was a victim of the German occupation of Poland in the sense that my parents forced me to learn German in order to survive the next potential conflict that was predicted in Cold War times. I generally disliked that duty and indeed felt like a victim.

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]

Ironside
- ideological - some Germans are lefties/proegssivies hence they view the Polish people like all lefties as if .....
- ignorance - basically they don't know much about Poland or anything really.
- they are collectivists at heart like a hive with orders and ranks and authorities - where the Polish people are individualists.

Out of these 3, I like two which seem credible and suit further discussion - ideological and collectivist vs individualist. Thanks, that`s the stuff I wanted to read when I started the thread.

As for ignorance reason, I don`t understand why it might be a source of dislike when you don`t know sth or somebody. Poles like a few nations in Europe but it doesn`t mean they know so much about them.

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


Yes, but instead of talking about the reasons why Germans dislike Poles, you both concentrated on ways of reducing bad emotions between nations. There will be time for that, too, but in the initial phase of the discussion, I think we should look through reasons - if they hold water etc.

So far, you didn`t agree with reason number 1 [historical ], number 2 (sociological) and 3 - [psychological.]

Tacitus - Unlikely. If you ask most Germans below a certain age, they are rarely aware e.g. about the former German territories.
Bratwurst Boy - I really don't think you will find many Germans who will say they deem the Poles inferior!
Bratwurst Boy - You can claim reasons 2 and 3 also for Greece (messy, unorganized, badly run etc.). But still many Germans like Greeks nonetheless


Well,, this is not really the topic of this thread. We are not talking about what Germans should feel but instead what they actually feel about Poles and why.

Oops, this forgetfulness of mine is killing me. When thinking what to write in the thread, I had planned to mention religion but eventually I forgot. Sorry.

So,
Reason 6 - Religious

Firstly, when we talk about practiced religious beliefs, Poles are catholics, while most Germans admit to connections with protestantism by tradition. I suppose it may provoke a little distrust or slight suspicion when two denominations meet, let`s not forget that one of most destructive wars in Europe`s history had a religious context.

Even more suspicion might be caused by differences in everyday religious life. While Poles still cling to the Church, take active part in religious ceremonies, etc, most Germans prefer not to be involved in such things. In result, they view Poles as very conservative and tradition-oriented, even on the verge of being sort of narrow-minded.

Also, I must have been sleepy when starting the thread because I probably deleted the part of one of reasons, namely

Reason 3 -Economical.
Germans had long cherished the notion of the so called Polnische Wirtschaft, in the sense of a badly run business, with incompetent leadership, lousy planning and poor performance. de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polnische_Wirtschaft_(Stereotyp)

The full version is:

Reason 3 -Economical.
Germans had long cherished the notion of the so called Polnische Wirtschaft, in the sense of a badly run business, with incompetent leadership, lousy planning and poor performance. de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polnische_Wirtschaft_(Stereotyp) Besides, Poland has always been poorer than Germany and Germans can see it without leaving their country: Poles` favourite cars are second hand ones, first driven by Germans, Polish second hand clothes outlets sell wear imported from Germany etc etc. Where`s the reason for dislike here? Again, contempt towards your poor relatives might cause suspicion and dislike because you never know what they might do, e.g, come to you and demand part of your weatlh just because it is proper to help the needy..

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


Sorry, I meant not surveys but your contacts with your compatriots after you wrote



I don`t, I am still discussing things. If I dismissed anything, I would be much more straightforward, asking you to stop lying etc . I simply want to make sure and that takes some time. Please, be patient.


Does it mean we are not going to read you in this thread?

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


No. I really want to discuss German attitude. I don`t know why you suspect some hidden agenda here. There isn`t such. If Polish attitude seems to be alluded to, it is just a coincidence because the topics are so close to each other.

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


That`s interesting. Now I do believe you because, being a disciplined/ law-abiding German, why should you be distorting the truth ?

But...

What if Germans hide their true feelings in fear of breaching the rules of political correctness? It has been gaining more and more popularity in Germany recently. With so many minorities and foreign ethnicities in the country, Germans have learnt to express their opinions about them more carefully, trying to avoid being stigmatised as racists and xenophobes. Simply speaking they hide their true beliefs about Poles, too.

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


Let`s be frank, current events in Poland, which are indeed unthinkable for an average German, don`t create new bias but strengthen the old one which existed for centuries..

History / Why are Poles/Poland disliked by Germans? [140]


Oh, I see. Similarly young Poles don`t know and don`t care about territieries in the East which once were under Polish control and today are in other countries.


Yes, immigration. I suppose it is another reason for negative feelings. Generally immigrants are disliked in any country because they are said to steal jobs and increase crime. As long as Poland is less developed/simply poorer than Germany, the immigration flow will continue and Poles will be disliked there


Good argument, but don`t forget that Germans didn`t have a 1000 -year- long territory conflict with Greeks. . WW2 occupation was too short to take it into consideration.

Language / Short Polish<->English translations [1049]

I never heard of it. But there is another saying which sounds similar: Pańskie oko konia tuczy.