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Film "Wałęsa" - historical reality vs myth - controvercies


pawian 151 | 7,977    
19 Jun 2013  #1
The film is being made by most renowned Polish director - Wajda. There have already been protests against Wajda after certain parts of the script were revealed to the public.

They are going to release it in September/October.
Lech Wałęsa, an electrician at the Gdańsk shipyards, participated in 1970's local demonstrations. [10] While he keeps the bloody aftermath in mind he concentrates on day-to-day duties. Yet ten years later a new uprising takes place and he happens to become an unexpected and charismatic leader of Polish dockworkers. [11] This is the beginning of a new movement that successfully stands up to the communistic regime. Wałęsa is pushed into representing the working population of Poland. The Soviet Union, hitherto regarded as too fearsome to mess with, has to cut them slack.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wa%C5%82%C4%99sa_%28film%29

Speech to workers

Walesa Poland

The Wałęsas had 8 children. Wow!

Walesa children in POland

Street fight

Poland street fight

Arrest

Walesa arrest in Poland

Victory in Poland over communists

The film is ready and is going to be first shown in September in Venice.

The first controvercy: real Wałesa approves of historical facts presented in the film but dislikes the acting - he says that the main actor turned his Wałęsa into an arrogant and conceited fool.

Real

s

Actor

d
Bieganski 17 | 906    
17 Aug 2013  #2
Did the actor or director spend any time interviewing Wałęsa himself or his former colleagues and relatives? Or did they base his persona from what they gleaned from written articles, archive footage and rumor about him?
OP pawian 151 | 7,977    
17 Aug 2013  #3
Good question. As fas as I know, Wałęsa wasn`t interviewed. The script was written by a well known Polish writer and dramatist, Janusz Głowacki. It was rumoured that Wajda and Glowacki had a conflict because Glowacki didn`t want to make a heroic film while Wajda prefered to remain politically correct. We`ll see.

While working on the movie, Andrzej Wajda has changed some of the scenes written by the writer Janusz Głowacki. Where Glowacki pushed toward the grotesque and irony, Wajda tried to be serious and toned down. Glowacki says that he does not know what in the movie remained, and what came out, but instead ... he is writing a book about how he wrote the script and the idea of work on the movie from his perspective.

In the weekly magazine Glowacki says that he does not know what will be the shape of the movie. "I do not know what will be mounted, and removed" - Głowacki said. The writer admits that he was not interested in writing the "heroic" movie. "Ridicule is always connected for me with pathos, because without ridiculousness there is no drama. In this way I wanted to show Wałęsa "- said the writer in an interview with" Newsweek ". He added that he gave just few "of grotesque" after all, and thus have the impression that it is not sufficient.

wnas.pl/artykuly/2061-glowacki-nie-interesuje-mnie-film-bohaterski-wajda-zmienil-scenariusz
kultura.gazeta.pl/kultura/1,114438,14071289,Konflikt_Wajdy_z_Glowackim_o_scenariusz__Walesy__.html
1jola 14 | 1,880    
22 Aug 2013  #4
Wonder if Wajda shows Bolek as he keeps winning the Lotto whenever he needed money. He was one lucky guy. We all believe him too because he is our national treasure. And his friend Jaruzelski.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,654    
23 Aug 2013  #5
Where were you when Walesa was in prison?
Harry    
23 Aug 2013  #6
They are going to release it in September/October.

Is there a firm release date yet? Although frankly the DVD release date will be of more interest to me (my mother thinks Walesa was nearly as wonderful as Mrs T was).

He was one lucky guy.

Indeed: he was locked up while other people were living a more comfortable life in the pay of Uncle Sam and ready to nuke Poland at a moment's notice.
sobieski 107 | 2,129    
23 Aug 2013  #7
he was locked up while other people were living a more comfortable life in the pay of Uncle Sam

Or living in a cosy flat i Żoliborz during commie times
Kowalski 7 | 621    
23 Aug 2013  #8
Oriana Fallacci interview with Walesa from 1981 would be supposedly a base for Wajda's picture of our hero
In one word of Oriana Fellacci: "antipatico"
1jola 14 | 1,880    
24 Aug 2013  #9
She called him a simpleton too. He proudly stated he had never read a book in his life. We believe him.

BTW, he has too favorite vacation spots: Florida and Arłamów "prison" in Bieszczady. Prison is where you clowns live compared to where he was.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,654    
24 Aug 2013  #10
He proudly stated he had never read a book in his life.

And yet he was able to rouse the masses. Not bad going for an uneducated man, as well as his inhuman ability to bridge the gap between workers and intellectuals.
Harry    
24 Aug 2013  #11
BTW, he has too favorite vacation spots: Florida and Arłamów "prison" in Bieszczady. Prison is where you clowns live compared to where he was.

I've actually stayed at Arlamow: nice location but rubbish accommodation (although the new hotel which they're building now on the site looks very promising. I'd be very concerned about any apartment which is like prison compared to what's at Arlamow.

As we're supposedly discussing historical reality vs myth, the myth is that Arlamow was a prison, the reality is that the location was very deliberately chosen by the communist regime in order to enable them to do exactly what you are doing now: to tell lies about Walesa being locked up.

BTW:

If you have the urge to get personal, stay away from the forum, take a deep breath and reload. If personal attacks will continue, I will force the relaxation on you for many days.

Just so you know.
Kowalski 7 | 621    
24 Aug 2013  #12
She called him a simpleton too. He proudly stated he had never read a book in his life. We believe him.

yet he lied

Walesa attitude toward Fellaci in 1981 was what we would label today "male chauvinism" and

(kinder, kirche, kuche) applied also to life of his wife with LW

Polish woman Wałęsa
delphiandomine 85 | 17,654    
24 Aug 2013  #13
As we're supposedly discussing historical reality vs myth, the myth is that Arlamow was a prison, the reality is that the location was very deliberately chosen by the communist regime in order to enable them to do exactly what you are doing now: to tell lies about Walesa being locked up.

Indeed, from all I've read about the situation, it was a very deliberate move - not least because it provoked the so-called "Rural Solidarity" who didn't have much in common with Walesa. As I recall, their power base was in that part of Poland - the crude Communist propaganda of Walesa being locked up in what was considered to be the luxury Arlamow would have driven them crazy.
OP pawian 151 | 7,977    
27 Aug 2013  #14
Fallaci treated each interview as a fight, or, as she once admitted, as a sexual intercourse. It is obvious that Wałęsa was either a too big fighter for her or a hopeless lover.

Walesa attitude toward Fellaci in 1981 was what we would label today "male chauvinism" and

Fallaci`s attitude to Wałęsa and Poland in general wasn`t so positive either:

Queen intelligence and journalistic extremist . She shouted at the Ayatollah , the emperor moved out of balance . At the end of the show with us Oriana

What impressed you Fallaci ? She was reportedly a beautiful woman - I ask Lech Walesa.

Former President laughs - impression ? I had then Poland before my eyes , not a journalist . It was a time that I helped a dozen interviews a day. Journalists did not impress me .

Walesa had never read an interview Fallaci . The journalist , in turn, was not happy to talk with the leader of "Solidarity ." After leaving the interview she told Polish friends, " Walesa will finish his people ."

Kowalski 7 | 621    
27 Aug 2013  #15
In one scene based on real events, Walesa, played by Polish actor Robert Wickiewicz, gives an interview to Italian journalist Oriana Fallaci after a 1980 strike that propelled him to prominence.

"He says: 'From now on I can only go down... Now everything bad that happens in Poland will be on my shoulders,"

"'If I was someone else, I would shave off my mustache and go back to the shop floor, but I won't do that, because I know I still have things to do.'"

Wajda described these remarks as "fantastic."

Speaking on a Gdansk radio station, Walesa said he was uncomfortable that in some scenes the actor who played him "portrayed me as a buffoon, who was a bit conceited."

But he said that overall, he was happy with the way the director had realized his concept for the film. "I think he did a good job
goofy_the_dog    
27 Aug 2013  #16
Bolek where are your acts?
what a paszkwil about a SB founded "hero" of the masses hehehe.
Onlhly Wajda could make a film like that.

with communist good bye, i would like to pozdrowic every commie or SB lover on the forum!!!
does he says tymi rencami? ;)
OP pawian 151 | 7,977    
27 Aug 2013  #17
Onlhly Wajda could make a film like that.

Like that means like what? Did you see it??
delphiandomine 85 | 17,654    
27 Aug 2013  #18
I doubt he knows the first thing about the film, but if it doesn't portray Walesa in a completely negative light, then his political masters have told him to oppose it.
OP pawian 151 | 7,977    
27 Aug 2013  #19
then his political masters have told him to oppose it.

:):) You mean goofy is like a puppet controlled by a master???
delphiandomine 85 | 17,654    
27 Aug 2013  #20
It seems that way ;)

I wonder how much the film will show the reality within Solidarność.
OP pawian 151 | 7,977    
27 Aug 2013  #21
Especially how Wałęsa cut out other prospective leaders (his brothers in arms or even mates) and became the chairman of Solidarity himself.
delphiandomine 85 | 17,654    
27 Aug 2013  #22
The intriguing thing to me is how he behaved at the time - like you say, he cut people out and ruled Solidarity as if he was the king of his own empire. I wonder if they'll show this?

(as a footnote, I've been watching coverage of the 1990 Presidential election - Walesa absolutely destroyed Mazowiecki in terms of presence and debate)
OP pawian 151 | 7,977    
27 Aug 2013  #23
like you say, he cut people out and ruled Solidarity as if he was the king of his own empire. I wonder if they'll show this?

I don`t think so. These were behind the stage personal games and they aren`t included in modern history books. :)

But I wouldn`t say he ruled like a king. He had advisors and mates, he had to cooperate.

(as a footnote, I've been watching coverage of the 1990 Presidential election - Walesa absolutely destroyed Mazowiecki in terms of presence and debate)

Much more important was his debate with the leader of pro-communist trade unions in 1988. Wałęsa won it decisevely and even communists had to admit it, so they renewed talks with him.
AdamKadmon 2 | 508    
5 Sep 2013  #24
But I wouldn`t say he ruled like a king. He had advisors and mates, he had to cooperate.

One of his cooperates: now politician and former trade union activist Jerzy Borowczyk

Najważniejszy strajk w historii Polski

The most important strike in Poland's history

The 39:02 time stamp 31.08.2013

Anna Maria Giza: Co z tymi postulatami: mieszkania, bezdomni, bezrobotni?

What about those strikers' demands: apartments, the homeless, the unemployed?

Jerzy Borowczyk: Postulat 19: skrócić czas oczekiwania, jak pamiętam, na mieszkanie...

The demand number 19: decrease of the waiting period for apartments, as I recollect...

Patryk Pleskot: Na ile to było wiarygodne? Na ile wy myśleliście, że to będzie zrealizowane? Bo to nie jest tak prosto? To trzeba by było wybudować te mieszkania, prawda?

How far was this credible? How far did you believe it's feasible/realistic? Because it is not so simple? Well, the apartments had to be built somehow, didn't they?

Jerzy Borowczyk: Po pierwsze, ten strajk był w innym ustroju. Myśmy tej władzy chcieli dopiec. Myśmy chcieli ją osłabić. Więc żądając 30 lat pracy dla kobiety, a dla mężczyzny 35, już wtedy wiedzieliśmy, że to jest NIEMOŻLIWE.

In the first place, the strike was in a different economic system. We wanted to hurt them to the quick, the authorities I mean. We wanted to weaken them. So by demanding the working period of 30 years for women or 35 years for men we at that time already knew that it was IMPOSSIBLE.

Anna Maria Giza: I... 50 i 55 lat emerytura.

And the retirement age of women 50 and of men 55

Jerzy Borowczyk: Wiedzieliśmy, że to jest niemożliwe, ale te postulaty były w innym ustroju. Dzisiaj takich postulatów pewnie w zakładach pracy, w firmach, ludzie nie będą zgłaszali.

We knew that it was impossible, but the demands were in a different economic system. Now, most probably, such demands nobody will make.
milky 13 | 1,657    
5 Sep 2013  #25
I hope its not like a Walt Disney production, like the one about the Polish Pope,,that was serious horse sh1t.
AdamKadmon 2 | 508    
6 Nov 2013  #26
Currying the favour

Ja panu mogie nogie podać...
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,467    
11 Nov 2015  #27
Merged: "Wałęsa" on TVP1?

Anybody watching the feature film "Wałęsa" on TVP1? Any comments or criticism?
dolnoslask    
11 Nov 2015  #28
yep im watching, interesting, he had balls.

I guess the only real comment is, the film did not show the brutality and loss of life under martial law, I guess they left it out because they were concerned about national reconciliation, let sleeping dogs lie and all that.
Polonius3 1,000 | 12,467    
11 Nov 2015  #29
not show the brutality

The ścieżka zdrowia (gauntlet), tear gas, water cannon, demonstrators bludged with batons and a guy whose legs are run over by an APC are sufficietnly brutal. The film could not focus solely on ZOMO vilence, since it had to cover so many different events. It's only a few years old so I doubt if any political pressure was exerted on the film-makers.
dolnoslask    
12 Nov 2015  #30
I didn't suggest there was any political pressure applied (you came up with that idea) , only self censorship by the director not to stir things up too much today,

Many of the culprits womble round here everyday, moaning how things were better under the PRL, some tell me to watch what i say, I Frankly don't give a Sh?t.


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