History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [451]



It had nothing to do with any German reparation to Poland. The shift of the borders was the result of an agreement between Russia, United States, Britain and France. Poland had not been invited to negotiate or to sign this agreement.

Another result of that agreement was dividing Germany into four zones, each of them under the military occupation by the parties signing the said agreement, which in turn resulted in the creation of the two German states: Bundesrepublik Deutschlands and Deutsche Demokratische Republik.

History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

I have been expecting some more witty answers from you than "who you are talking to" or "what the hell are you talking about". It all sounds so simplistic, Fuzzie!

History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

One thing: who said


. If their food is bad, they should start eating something else, and American food would naturally be the first choice as the US sets example to all civilised world. But if the food good why they should start "eating completely different food"?

Second,


. It does since the US is the leading and most advanced country of the "West" and as such the US sets example to Western Europe which is sharply contrasted here to Eastern or Central Europe which in turn is the subject of this thread.

Poniał towariszcz?

History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

And that ends up the whole discussion. The UN simply cannot be wrong, nor can be Wikipedia.

Except perhaps for the fact that most of Russia's territory is in Asia, not in Eastern Europe.

History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]


Isn't it a good thing that we don't eat so many hamburgers and don't drink so much coca-cola as the Americans do, and as a result we are not in general so obese as the Americans are?

History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]


Whatever silly opinions the notoriously unemployed Hudsonhicks may diffuse here on the PF, the one about the gulf between East and West seems to be true. This gap exists and it exists more on the political and cultural plan than on any other one. The so-called "social capital" is much lower in the countries of the eastern part of the continent than in those of the western part.

Once I met a couple of Dutch people who were amazed, after having stayed in Gernany on holiday, that the the Wessis were always capable of distiguishing between themselves and the Ossis. And it was not the matter of language, but rather of general behaviour, manners and that something which were not perceived by the Dutch eye, but was obvious for the West German one. In the light of the above, shouldn't the border between East and west be placed on the river Elbe rather than on the river Oder?

Finally, a personal remark: if I myself were to qualify Hudsonhicks to one camp or the other, I would definitely describe him (and some other "Western" members of the PF) as an Ossi rather than a Wessi in terms of culture, behaviour and manners. This means that the true border really runs between our hearts and not our lands.

Language / POLISH 18 - 30 years old know MUCH BETTER ENGLISH language than their own native language! [102]


This has been answered by Zetigrek; the rest of Polish people didn't bother. Are your skills in reading English so bad?

Language / POLISH 18 - 30 years old know MUCH BETTER ENGLISH language than their own native language! [102]



You both may be right. The emotion displayed may depend on the attitude of a person towards their knowing of the language; if they are convinced their level of mastering the language is very good, they might feel angry at corrections, if not they would welcome it or even ask for it. I think Lenka's attitude may be something halfway between the two.

My problem while I was staying in the North of England in 1980s was that no English people of the region (except for the person I was staying with) ever wanted to correct my English, albeit they were explicitly asked for it! I remember it only once when an English person (a German teacher, btw) corrected my pronounciation of the adjective "conservative". No other instances in a five-month long stay! Incredible, isn't it (I even managed to have eventually included 'question tags' into my everyday utterances at the end of my stay in England, something which I had previously been finding very bizzare in the English language)?

Language / POLISH 18 - 30 years old know MUCH BETTER ENGLISH language than their own native language! [102]


I think you may be right. As for the first two examples, these are rarely used or not used at all. But the last two examples are not so unusual (I mean the declension of the numeral with the plural noun "dzieci"), so most people should be OK with them. The trick here which most people may not be aware of is that all nouns in your example fall into the same gramatical category for the purpose of numeral declension: neutral nouns or only-plural nouns. Other examples of that kind may be: troje sań, czworo drzwi, pięcioro okien, though I dare say quite a number of Polish people, if not most of them, will be inclined to say: trzy sanie, cztery drzwi, pięć okien. I myself "feel" pięcioro okien as a little bizzare form, as opposed to pięć okien which seems all right to me, but is not).

History / Judge Tuleya mother was in SB [74]


Indeed, this shows that emotions fly high. People in Poland as anywhere else in the world are immersed in their past and no one can really escape from it. No one in Poland or anywhere else in the world can say: You, you are the only one to be blamed and you are responsible for all the bad things that happen. "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone" - says the Bible. So many members of the PF tend to cast the first stone (with the notable exception of Harry, now suspended) - one may think!

Roman Giertych, once a political ally of PiS and member of the PiS cabinets of Kazimierz Marcinkiewicz (rumours say that his beloved young Isabel for whom he left his wife and four children is going to leave him soon) and Jarosław Kaczyński in 2005-2007, now says it would be very dangerous if PiS returned to power, yet he doesn't exclude this posibility. Voters are increasigly disappointed with the inertia of PO - says he in a very interesting political analysis in the interview given to Rzeczpospolita (the paper version of 20th of January) - so they might resort to voting for the PiS party, even if they are not particurarly fond of that party (the reason for that, IMHO, is that many voters are likely to believe that PiS is always too ready to "cast the first stone"). They might just be doing it "dla jaj" (will someone have the pleasure to translate this Polish idiomatic expression for me?) - adds the former leader of Liga Polskich Rodzin - even if it is not because of the now looming economic crisis that may soon become a harsh reality.

Life / Understanding Polish Mailing Addresses [21]


It should be:
56-400 Oleśnica Śląska

History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

Politically Poland is in the EU and NATO, geographically Poland is in Central Europe. Maybe in terms of mentality Poland is Eastern Europe?

I don't know, but I know this old joke in which two blokes boarded a train, one of them did so in Paris, the other did so in Moscow, and when they got off in Warsaw by mistake, they were both convinced they reached their respective destinations.

History / POLAND: EASTERN or CENTRAL European country? [1090]

The entire discussion is useless and reflects the usual typical prejudices of the Western Europeans versus Eastern Europeans which would in other circumstances be hidden under the convenient "political correctness" attitude. The term "Central Europe" doesn't denote anything better or anything worse than "Eastern Europe", in the same way as "Western Europe" doesn't denote anything better or worse than "Central Europe". "Western" or "Central" or "Eastern" Europe are strictly geographical terms which here are assigned assessing political meanings by people who would otherwise claim they are impartial. In true fact, they tend to follow the attitude of the notorious hudsonhicks and the like with the difference that hudsonhics feels free to articulate his prejudices openly and without a mask, while they usually prefer to hide them under the coat of political corectness they wear for the purpose of seeming better, nicer and more attractive to anyone who wants to believe them.

News / Poland's PiS = suspicion & fear? [70]



Thanks for that. Harry has no evidence that what I say is untrue, but goes on to call me a liar.

And since this is such a case, I strongly feel that the forum member Harry has used abusive language towards me, so I come to the conclusion that he has breached Rule 2 of the Forum Rules and Code of Conduct:

2. Posters should refrain from using abusive or derogatory language (unless it's necessary to explain the language's nuances). Posters who use abusive or derogatory language towards other users may be banned.

thus accordingly I table a motion to the administartor and moderator(s) to assess that the said user has indeed done so, and in case they judge I am true in my motion, I propose that the said user should be suspended from participating from the forum discussions for at least 30 days.

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PS I Since I've never tabled any such motion against anyone before, can someone (with the exception of the poster Harry) tell me if the above is the right procedure to do so or shall I do anything else? Thank you.

PS II I think members of the PF should really do more for stopping offending and abuse, otherwise the Polish Forums will deteriorate even further and eventually will stop attracting people for whom offending and abuse is not a primary target of the forum activities

News / Poland's PiS = suspicion & fear? [70]


Actually, this judgement seems to appear frequently on the PF (however, I did not follow precisely who said it, my impression is that it usually appears in the posts of the members of the famous "little British gang", as called by a certain American member of the PF, a gang of three, as specified at one time by the moderator "p3undone". However, I would be happy to get directed to some reliable source(s) of this judgement since I've never come across it in the Polish press, including titles who evidently oppose PiS and such like except one remark in a paper whose name I don't remember since it was a very long time ago.

News / Goodbye Rzeczpospolita, Goodbye Uwazam Rze! Killed by Tusk. [25]


I get your point now.


That's exactly what I had in mind. If Varsovian says that the paper loses 25% of readership because the present owner is a political supporter of Tusk, while the paper had started to lose readership because of the facts you pointed to long before Hajdarowicz became the owner, he is not a trustworthy person whom I thought he was. As a result, I've decided not to reply in threads opened by Varsovian, nor reply to his posts in other threads.

News / Goodbye Rzeczpospolita, Goodbye Uwazam Rze! Killed by Tusk. [25]


By saying "these newspapers" you mean both? or one one of them? One of them lost part of their readership in paper, but the other did not. So, what are your facts as compared to "total conspiracy"? Be a specialist and tell us more. I've been reading them both in paper since long before Hajdarowicz became owner of the two and I follow closely what's going on with them now, so I hope to learn some new facts from you.

News / Goodbye Rzeczpospolita, Goodbye Uwazam Rze! Killed by Tusk. [25]


This is a good example of speaking through the propaganda tube. No exact dates, not even a press title which this statement refers to. Rzeczpospolita or Uważam Rze? But what for? Conspiracy theories do not need that.

I told you! Both are killed by Tusk! And that is all there is to it! Who ever would want more?

News / Goodbye Rzeczpospolita, Goodbye Uwazam Rze! Killed by Tusk. [25]


First of all, your propaganda tube is not very exact, as usual. The story is totally different in either of those press titles, so it would be better if you constrict yourself to the comntinued reading of "the only propaganda-newspapers" in Poland with the photos you mention plus the Daily E-Mail.

News / Poland's PiS = suspicion & fear? [70]


This is political pure nonsense, as all of you know well. Every government abuse power (the American one with the Watergate affaire was an excellent example) from time to time, but walking over a certain line is a different story. The same what Michnik says of Kaczyński is said of Tusk by his political opponents from PiS and, let's be frank about it - you yourself are inclined to accuse Tusk of it as well. There's nothing new about abusing arguments in a political debate, so stop this bicie piany. The mere fact that a democratically elected party like PiS has handed power to PO in the result of a lost election says that Michnik is wrong, and all those who say that PO will not do the same are wrong as well.

Calling someone names in politics is nothing new. I will remind you the suggestion to call Palikot's party PiS since such an abbreviation could stand for "Palikot i Spółka".

Genealogy / My father is half Polish and half Ukrainian is this a common mix in Poland and Ukraine ? [12]


I am OK with whatever mother of whatever origin, and whatever son or daughter of that mother. I am suspicious about your absurd question asked at the start of your post:


, bearing in mind the contents of your other threads.

Genealogy / My father is half Polish and half Ukrainian is this a common mix in Poland and Ukraine ? [12]

I think the last time here you said you were an adopted German and were not particularly happy about having Polish roots at all.

Assuming


is an absurd idea in itself, so in my view you've just come here to be trolling again, having no intention whatsoever to go either to Poland or to Ukraine.

Language / Busha and JaJa [140]

This was explained in post #7 of this thread. It's pretty obvious that a Polish-American who cannot write in Polish will simply write the word "dziadzia" by using the closest English spelling which in this case would be "jaja".


Ludzie, na miłość boską, nie ma o co bić piany!

Language / Busha and JaJa [140]

Though I more often than not disagree with your opinions, this time I think your observaions are extremely accurate. The term "provocative digressions" is brilliant and describes so well the essence of the game. His tactic once used to drive me up the wall as well, but once I got to know it, I'm having fun instead. He's very clever on the intellectual front and very manipulative on the psychological one (a true tycoon of the modern "New Age" era?). Boletus works so hard trying to explain the thing (quite trivial thing, by the way, but which has become the symbol of the American-European war on the PF) to the audience and then Harry arrives destroying all this by some innocent digressions like the one to Strzyga: Go and get a Polish dictionary: you'll find that I'm the one who is agreeing with the Poles. Then everyone who has read the thread down to this line involontarily imagines how the poor Strzyga goes and gets herself a Polish dictionary through which she finds that Harry was bloody right while she was bloody wrong. The word "busia" exists neither in this nor in another Polish dictionary! Strzyga desperately browses more of them in a nearby library, but again finds nothing which would even resemble the word "busia" and - what's even more terrifying - if she perseveres and goes to the extremes, she will find no trace of it in all those ancient dictionaries so keenly and carefully examined before by Boletus in his on-line searching for the mysterious word "busia".

Boletus is agitated, none the less is Strzyga, Harry pours even more petrol onto the fire, more people are tempted to join in taking one side or another, the argument slowly turns personal, and finally the mods decide to close the thread for "cleaning" or for ever. That's - in short - life according to the PF. At the same time, Busia sleeps in perfect calm in her American home near Chicago, completely unaware she could be the subject of a heated debate!

Ale JaJa ("DziaDzia" in American spelling)!

Language / Busha and JaJa [140]


Why do you want Boletus to do your homework again? ;-)


Believe me, Harry does know that dialects are the foundations of every language. His game on the forum is of a different kind than some simple exchange of arguments, but not everyone is aware of the game.

He may speak no Polish, but he understands it (at least written Polish) very well and if you happened to have read some of his responses in the threads, you would have not the slightest doubt about it. He may have said somewhere that he doesn't know Polish, but again, saying this it's part of his game ...

Language / Busha and JaJa [140]


Not only. Also ciocia's husband.


Brother's brother would still be my brother. ;-) Stryj is my father's brother.

Language / Busha and JaJa [140]


Neither have I. Never heard 'busia' in my family, but I could immediately judge it as having been derived from the word "babusia", the latter being perfectly imaginable, though equally unusual for me.


It is much likely, in my view, although we must push back the time of mass emigration to the US to the times before the start of the II RP (end of the 19th and the beginning od the 20th century). As far as I remember, my grandparents (GF born in 1907, GM born in 1912) who lived in the country (south-eastern Masovia) and whom I visited quite often in my chilhood for a summer holiday would often refer to a grandmother as "babka" rather than "babcia", even if I myself used to address my grandmother with the word "babciu" [vocative of "babcia"]. Also, recalling the Polish historical films whose language was to some extent "styled" to sound less contemporary, I have the impression that the caracters in them would use "babko" rather than "babciu" when addressing the grandmother. The same can probably be found in the literature of the 19th century (someone may perhaps browse several "big" titles, those of Władysław Reymont or Bolesław Prus spring to mind, in search for that). So, all in all, one may perhaps assume that this diminution of the word babka to the word babcia started to spread out after the First World War. A similar process, the diminution of 'babka' to 'babusia' may have taken place in some specific groups (e.g. peasants of some regions) even before that time.

On a side note, my grandparents frequently used names of family that have faded away since then or are extremely rare now. Both my GF and GM carefully differentiated between 'ciotka', 'wujenka' or 'stryjenka', for example. I never dared to grasp the difference between those three, as in the 1970s and 1980s it was really unusual to hear the two latter terms among people in the towns.

Language / Busha and JaJa [140]


No, I don't tink so. The word "busia" is one of the symbols of the ongoing war between the Polish-Americans not living in Poland and the non-US Anglo-Saxon expats living in Poland and as such it is destined to recur here on the PF sooner or later. I, as a Pole living in Poland, am impartial to this war, but I'm vividly interested in solving out the mystery surrounding this word.

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The above is in obvious disagreement with this:


Despite the fact that Delph doesn't name his source, he does point to the year of the source which is fifty-three years earlier than 1958!

Delph, could you specify your source?

Language / Busha and JaJa [140]


Being in a foreign language environment, they would not pay much attention to it, I presume.

Language / Busha and JaJa [140]

By saying JaJa, she probably wants to say DziaDzia or "Dziadzia", the name for grandfather in childrens' talk.

As for Busia, the mystery remains unsolved; I would opt for this word having evolved in the language of Polish immigrants to America in the environment of English. Children who heard "babusia" could have been shortening it to "busia" in America and go on uncorrected, while in Poland they would be taught to say "baba" and "babcia" instead.