Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


I suspect you mean poetic licence - any other term in English sounds pretentious and as a learner of English, that might be worth remembering.

Your poetic licence doesn't change the fact that when using words (especially racial epithets) we should take great care not to offend. Unless of course that is our intention.

And it's just the same in Polish as in any other language.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

Very interesting Magdalena, but none of those quotes are actually mine. Every single one of them is your own words and your own, somewhat obsessive, take on the situation.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

I wonder if you can spot the obvious logical fallacy in your post.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

Hard to say whether you misunderstand accidentally or deliberately. As it happens you're coming across like someone who is totally OCD on the matter of language. Never good, since languages rarely behave the way you want them to.

Nobody - as you well know - can "force the language to change spontaneously". It happens without anyone "forcing". And as ever with language, it happens in a beautifully chaotic and disorganised way.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

Great that you're so passionate, almost obsessive or compulsive about it, however your views do fly in the face of current linguistic thought.

Anyway, I notice that the media - doubtless because of pressure from Polish citizens for them to be politically correct on the matter - have started to avoid talking about 'Polish Concentration Camps'.

So you see language does evolve through external as well as internal changes. Thanks for proving my point.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

Some cultures have more of a global influence than others, whether or not you like it. You can always advocate isolation.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

That's one of the ways that languages evolve; by being exposed to external cultural influence. I doubt that many people would prefer isolation.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


Something tells me he wasn't either young and a resident of the capital. He probably meant well.

Language does change - no matter how much that riles you.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


The English language tends to avoid nouns to describe ethnicity - they certainly exist however their use (where they refer to skin colour) is less and less popular. It seems that this (whether you like it or not) is happening in Polish too.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


Was, not is. As Pam says, if in doubt, be polite.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

That's actually quite funny - but then again, if you want to judge people by your own low standards (and quite frankly you do have a history of that on here - as well as openly racist and hysterical posts), who's to stop you? By the way, Phraseology is spelt with a Ph.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

It seems you can't understand a thread in English. Look back and you'll see I was quoting something. Perhaps you'd like me to go around with a spray can correcting graffiti. LOL


A good couple of decades and when at home, we don't speak English. Ever.

But feel free to jump to conclusions and make false assumptions.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

How would you know?

There's a popular myth that many would fain think, (and this is common to many minor languages) that the Polish language is somehow impenetrable and that English is a kind of Esperanto - that just isn't true.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

With all due respect (and in fact very little is due), the last two posts are rubbish. You don't need to be from UK/US to understand English just as you don't need to be from Poland to understand Polish.

Some words are just to be avoided in polite conversation: two good examples are on this page.

It wouldn't let me edit (a phone call came and the edit function timed out) so here's the rest:

One post is trolling and the last post is responding to being wound up.

You don't need to be from UK/US to understand English just as you don't need to be from Poland to understand Polish. The issue with the words are as much political as linguistic. Magdalena has mentioned 'PC' and used the word 'brigade' - a phrase that as a foreigner speaking English she's doubtless picked up those lexemes from reading/hearing and may or may not realise the kind of lowlife that use the phrase 'PC brigade'. She'd doubtless say she understands the nuances - just as I understand the nuances of the word Murzyn. Her point of view on English is every bit as valid as mine on Polish, since we both live in the country that each other came from originally and speak each others' native language all day, every day.

Worth mentioning that in the old days when 'murzyn' was neutral, the phrase 'PC brigade' did not exist. But language changes fast and some people would not use either phrase; whereas some would happily use both. McDouche however is just trolling.

Some words are just to be avoided in polite conversation: two good examples are on this page.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

And very good too.

You can't turn back the tide of time, no matter how much you'd like to.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


I'm not sure there's any 'brigade' promoting anything.


As I'm sure you know (c.f. Krashen and Chomsky) language largely chooses the direction it goes in itself. Beautifully chaotically.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

You missed out the phrase "on here". In real life things are a bit different.

And half the Polish people on here don't live there and haven't for ages and the other half's habit of discussing their own country in a foreign language on the internet is not insignificant, young man.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

What's positive about either?

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


Indeed. Same as calling them 'Red Indians' which certainly offends.

The moral of the story is that we should choose the words we use carefully; to sound as positive as possible.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


Well, it certainly isn't in Chinese, Lenka, and given that it's in a doorway half way down Grochowska the likely nationalities of the 'writer' are small.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


The words are different, but there are valid comparisons. Most people in Poland do not seek to either offend or be seen to drag themselves down by their use of vocabulary. Some of the posters here think it's acceptable - others think it is not. Very subjective, however one thing is indisputable - that sensibilities around use of language are changing.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

Remember that this is part of a wider debate about societal change in Poland (and elsewhere - there are parallels in the US too). One point of view is that things should never change (in Poland, you hear some quite fierce discussions about language - what is 'correct' and what isn't; another point of view is that change happens organically due to all sorts of factors and that Poland's culture is not isolated from trends in the rest of the world. There are those who think it should be.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


Who ever said that graffiti had to be in sentences. And yes, Magdalena, you are fixating as if you had OCPD as far as language matters are concerned.


Far from it, Perhaps you'd like to visit Warsaw and have a look yourself - I can show you where it is.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

We all of us in this thread. Those of us who a. speak the language and b. live there and hear how it's used. No educated person under a certain age and in the capital would have the slightest doubt that it is a word to use with care.

It looks like you're just trying to stir things. I'm sure you're not, but be aware that this is part of a much wider debate in society in PL.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


Crikey, you're fixating on this entirely irrelevant side issue about some semi-literate graffiti almost in the way an OCPD person might fixate on something that freaks them out. We're talking about cultural change that occurs within languages, not some Polish graffiti chav's unusual way of writing. Worth mentioning that graffiti anywhere falls outside all normal use of grammar and language - you can easily find many, many examples of graffiti that barely make sense. An example is some on a wall near a place I have in the UK. It reads 'fvck me static'. That makes no real sense in the English language, however to one of the local chavvies it was certainly relevant enough to spray on a wall.

It's what they write rather than the way they write it that's significant.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


No. Not at all, but feel free to think that - you certainly have plenty of varied views.


We all do. As I said, this is a political issue first and foremost.

You still haven't mentioned your time in PL or exposure to the culture of PL. If I comment on things in the US, I can say at least that I've been there a few times and frankly any English speaking person gets some exposure to their culture.


Absolutely. Hit. Nail. Head.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

I wonder why you think the post is insulting, P3. It would still be interesting though to know how long you've spent in PL and your exposure to the culture.

Anyway, it isn't about whether someone knows what they're talking about or not - more about trying to advance a political opinion about their dislike of the way language changes naturally with time and the external (and internal) influences on culture/language.

Where do you stand on the Ciemnogrod issue, P3?

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


That doesn't really make much sense or add to the discussion - P3, have you spent much time in Poland or had much exposure to society there?

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]


I suppose that would depend on ones definition of "cultered", wouldn't it.


How can that be true??? They're patriotic, damn you, they feel the polszczyzna to the very depths of their haplotype.

Language / IS "MURZYN" word RACIST? [686]

Why don't you go and swab the wall it's written on for DNA in that case rather than shoot the messenger. Bad grammar on graffiti is less implausible (even very common) than a non-Pole writing it. And yes, it is "do drzewa" and not "na drzewa" but that's off-topic, as you well know.