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Working in Poland while being self employed in the UK and paying tax and in there


Morad83 1 | 19
5 Mar 2013 #1
Hi folks is there anyone in such a position with some tips? :)
terri 1 | 1,665
6 Mar 2013 #2
You must seek the advice of a very good accountant. Any earnings in Poland are usually taxed in Poland, although there is nothging preventing you from earning cash in hand in Poland. You will, of course, not be insured in Poland in case of an accident.

You will have trouble with the taxman in GB as you will have to prove your earnings for that year - and here lies the problem. There is nothing stopping you from paying NI in GB.
dudelz 2 | 7
12 May 2015 #3
Hello

I was wondering if there are any Brits here working in Poland and paying tax and national insurance in the UK. I am thinking of registering myself as self-employed in England before I move to Poland.

Thanks
cms 9 | 1,255
13 May 2015 #4
You can do that but if you are here for more than 183 days then you must pay polish income tax. You can potentially deduct from that any tax paid in the uk but its not totally straightforward.
jon357 67 | 16,854
13 May 2015 #5
Sort of. If he was in Poland, he probably wouldn't spend 90 days (the threshold in the UK) back in England and wouldn't be liable for tax in either place. However - and it's a big however, if he's actually working in Poland, the activities he undertook would generate a tax liability from day one.

Plenty of people working in Poland keep up their National Insurance payments in the UK though. He'd still need to pay Polish ZUS however by paying NI he'd retain pension rights etc at home.

As for being self-employed in the UK, there are Poles who do that too - he'd still need to register a 'representative' with the KRS in Poland, so on the whole not that much point in it - though of course that depends what exactly he wants to do.
adamm19830 10 | 43
7 Jan 2016 #6
Merged: Paying Taxes - UK based company

Hello,

Myself (British) and my wife (Polish) currently live in the UK with our 2 children (Both British Nationals). We are both self employed owning our own Business registered here in the UK. We have had this business for 2 years and obviously pay UK income tax.

We are moving to Poland this year in the summer to live. After much research and conversations we have read and heard conflicting information.

We understand (and hope) that we can Live in Poland and keep our business registered in the UK and pay UK income tax. Purely because of the greater "tax free" allowance you get in the UK. We wouldn't want to pay tax in Poland as well as the UK obviously.

90% of our business/product is sent to the UK, the remaining 10% is sent elsewhere worldwide.

We have heard conflicting information that if we live in Poland for more than 6 months then we would have to pay Polish tax instead of UK tax.

Could anyone clarify this?

Thank You in advance.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
7 Jan 2016 #7
We wouldn't want to pay tax in Poland as well as the UK obviously.

You can't. If you're resident in Poland, you need to be self employed in Poland.

Don't even bother trying to get out of it. The Polish tax authorities and the Social Insurance Institution (ZUS) have been going after such people quite heavily lately - if you're caught, you're liable not only for the full avoided social insurance contributions (over 1000PLN/month per person) but also fines of 100% of the avoided income tax as well as paying the original tax due. The new government has also made it very clear that they intend to treat tax evasion very seriously.

In theory, you can get away with it. But Poland doesn't have the same concept of bankruptcy as in the UK - they will chase you for every last złoty until the debt is paid, and they can be relentless. It's not worth it.

We have heard conflicting information that if we live in Poland for more than 6 months then we would have to pay Polish tax instead of UK tax.

Not quite so simple. The law says that you're liable for Polish taxation if you are either a) resident for more than 185 days in Poland or b) your centre of vital interests is in Poland. If you have a property in Poland as well as children here, then you will be tax resident under criteria b) and therefore be liable for Polish taxation.

90% of our business/product is sent to the UK, the remaining 10% is sent elsewhere worldwide.

Doesn't make a difference. Your residence is what matters.
adamm19830 10 | 43
7 Jan 2016 #8
Ok thanks for the info. Does that mean that we would have to register the business as a Polish company? Or could we keep it as a UK company?
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
7 Jan 2016 #9
You have to register as a Polish company. If you and your wife work in the same company, you need to pay 2xmandatory social insurance contributions.

Everything is here - prod.ceidg.gov.pl/ceidg.cms.engine/
dolnoslask
7 Jan 2016 #10
You could look at opening a branch of your existing company in Poland, you could then draw a salary for your wife and yourself and pay all the relevant taxes in Poland , this way you will be able to retain all the existing goodwill that you have established in the UK under your you existing company,

Obviously you would not be able to draw down any dividends or income from the UK parent company unless you wish to pay the appropriate tax in Poland.

Effectively you would be Polish residents working for a British company who's head office is in the UK.
adamm19830 10 | 43
7 Jan 2016 #11
I had thought about that. Keep the UK company and we would both be its Employees instead of being self employed....not sure if that would work.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
7 Jan 2016 #12
You'd have to have a branch office here and pay Polish taxation, which would be worse as you wouldn't be able to deduct business expenses while paying the same rate of taxation.
dolnoslask
7 Jan 2016 #13
Invoice the minimum in Poland to cover salary overheads and expenses, retain profits within the UK parent, no law says you have to make any profit in Poland.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
7 Jan 2016 #14
True, but they would have to open a UK limited company for that and pay corporation tax on the profits.
Buggsy 8 | 98
8 Jan 2016 #15
Myself (British) and my wife (Polish) currently live in the UK with our 2 children (Both British Nationals)

I guess you are asking because when you move here with your family, you will need to access NFZ and kids will have to go to school- right? First of all the taxes and insurance contributions here are quite high.

It would help if your wife were to get a job here first. After that register a company.
This would reduce the monthly contributions to ZUS. For the income tax, you can declare minimum earnings and you won't have to pay.Your wife will be able to register you and the children for NFZ and then you can always go back home and check on your business.

My neighbour works in Germany but his family is here in Poland.
His wife works and she has him registered here for NFZ incase he falls ill.
He pays taxes in Germany but spends more time here because they are extending their house. The only disadvantage is that his pension contributions are in Germany.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
8 Jan 2016 #16
For the income tax, you can declare minimum earnings and you won't have to pay.

Unfortunately, it's not so simple. If he's working (even if unpaid) for her business, then they have to pay ZUS contributions for him too. All family members fall under this rule. If he also declares minimum earnings, it's bound to attract the interest of the tax office, especially if they find a UK registered company in his name.

His wife works and she has him registered here for NFZ in case he falls ill.

He's asking for a control to take place and for him to be hammered. They're really, really going after such people - ZUS has started querying other EU social security databases and using it to question people's affairs. Someone that spends most of their time in Poland will be liable for Polish taxation, especially if he's extending a house here.
adamm19830 10 | 43
8 Jan 2016 #17
Thanks for all the info.
I have spoken to my UK accountant today and she has advised that we speak to the Polish Embassy in London for clarity.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
8 Jan 2016 #18
The Polish Embassy won't help you. If you want to clarify the situation, you need to ask the local tax office and Social Institution Institution where you plan to live to give you a written ruling on the matter. However, tax law is pretty clear on the matter.
Buggsy 8 | 98
8 Jan 2016 #19
Unfortunately, it's not so simple. If he's working (even if unpaid) for her business,

I didn't say he has to work for his wife's company- why would he have to?
If, and that is only "if" he is registered as an employee, then they will have to pay full ZUS for him.
The minimum earnings are declared by the owner of the campany- his wife, who is also employed somewhere.
If she declares minimum earnings for a company she is running while employed somewhere, they are not too bothered about her husband who,in this case, will be unemployed in Poland.

This is not theoratical. It's based on the experience of my colleagues I live with in my area.

He's asking for a control to take place and for him to be hammered.

He works in Germany and he pays his taxes there.
How he spends his money between Germany and Poland, is up to him.
10 years on- no one has has ever knocked on his door to ask if he is paying Polish tax on the money he earns in Germany.

To the OP: if you or your wife have friends or relatives who are self employed in the UK and also spend time in Poland, ask them how it's done.
delphiandomine 88 | 18,455
8 Jan 2016 #20
The minimum earnings

That still leaves the considerable problem of earnings in the UK that can't be repatriated to Poland. How would your proposal help them to avoid Polish taxation/ZUS contributions? Furthermore, if they're using self employment in the UK, then ZUS will simply treat it as that they should be self-employed in Poland and not in the UK, hence they will receive a hefty bill if caught.

10 years on- no one has has ever knocked on his door to ask if he is paying Polish tax on the money he earns in Germany.

Not yet, anyway. But ZUS has been very interested in those theoretically working abroad recently - if he's registered through ZUS for NFZ coverage and yet is found to be working in Germany, he's going to get questioned one day about it. The potential liabilities are eyewatering on German wages... and yes, ZUS have access to EU social insurance databases.
Beeracuda - | 2
29 Oct 2016 #21
Merged: UK national setting up a non Polish company while living in Poland

Hello there,

I live in Poland with my Polish wife. Currently we both work for ourselves (in different trades) and are registered as self employed - and consequently we both pay ZUS and income tax in Poland. Now here's the rub: my introductory ZUS rate is rapidly coming to an end, and as my income can be quite sporadic/unreliable, the thought of paying the full rate of ZUS each month regardless of my income is making me reconsider the wisdom of being self employed in Poland.

Its been suggested to me that I could set up a foreign company (possibly UK or Irish), set up a branch office in Poland (is this necessary?), employ myself (possibly paying a nominal salary) and thus avoid any liability to pay ZUS. Is this accurate? The company would naturally be liable for corporation tax in the country it is based in, and I would pay income tax in Poland based on my income from the company - hiring a local accountant to fill in my annual tax return.

The spectre of ZUS isn't the only motivation for this - limited liability is also a consideration, along with professional indemnity and the fact that some clients prefer to work with companies rather than 'sole traders'.

I'd really appreciate any thoughts on this before I seek professional advice on either side of the channel - thanks!
Mariusz123 - | 1
28 Oct 2019 #22
POLAND

Hi Everyone, I need your advise.

My girlfriend, she is self employed fashion stylist in UK. Recently we moved back to Poland.
She is still having jobs in UK, so of course she will be paying income tax over there but she would hove some jobs over here in Poland. My question is. Does she has to register in Poland and be self empolyed in both countries? Im not very good in that, so please help us.

Thank You
Kind Regards
Lyzko 30 | 7,507
28 Oct 2019 #23
Ordinarily, I'd have answered your query with a simple "It depends on whether she's an EU citizen or not!"
However with this whole BREXIT thing looming, three days hence as the deadline, everything now is all messed up. Wish I could be more helpful.
OnUnited1 - | 1
14 Jun 2020 #24
Hi
Next year I intend to star a small business (renting a summer houses by the polish sea - summer business only) . Me and my wife (both polish but with british citizenship) would like to know what form of business would be best for us. We both working and living in England for several years. Due to the fact that we work in England, I would not want to pay ZUS in Poland. I have heard I could obtain some form from the UK Tax office ,which I could use to avoid paying it in Poland? But maybe it would be better to rent for a mother-in-law who is retired? -you never know in Poland : ) I am open to all options.

I don't want to start a limited company in UK, the houses are paid off, I would prefer not to transfer ownership to the company. My wife works as a self employed ,it seems to me that this would help to avoid a higher tax in Poland wher after: 17100£ you pay 32% in Poland and in UK its only 20% to 50k £

I know that I will have to declare rental income from Poland in the UK, that is not a problem but if I will have to declare my income from UK in Poland it could push me to pay higher tax in Poland...

The problem is that it is not so easy to find an accountant who know how to operate between these 2 countries regarding to SELF EMPLOYED . There are many companies that will help set up limited companies but we are not interested

Maybe someone has some experience that they could share?

Thanks.


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