History / Why is Vatican traditionally on German and not on Polish side? [65]


I think you got it right the first time. ;)


More baloney! Your reading seems to be select articles from the internet. His change from speaking out wasn't a change in thought, but a matter of prudence to protect Catholics and Jews.

No doubt this a complex issue that is easy to make black-and-white moral judgments rom the comfort of our peacetime living rooms, but the contemporary realities of that time demanded prudence. What seems to accompany the criticisms against Pius is that the moral imperative to speak out against the evils of nazism were paramount and that prudential judgment had no place--it's a kind of scorched Earth kind of mentality.

You should check out books written by Rabbi Donald Dalin and Ronald Rychlak.

The defamation of Pius started with a play in the 1960's that wasn't based on historical research. Also, consider how Yad Vashem has gradually been softening its tone against Pius.


What's your point? Are you claiming Pius had something to do with de-nazification policy or that he procured safe passage of known nazis to S.A.?

Look, there's no doubt that anti-semitism existed (and still exists) within the Church and that even some churchmen were supportive of the Nazi regime (at least at the beginning). But, none of that means Pius was a fascist sell-out or anti-semitic.

@Tacitus

Good post!

History / Why is Vatican traditionally on German and not on Polish side? [65]

Focus, Lyzko, focus. :). You're drifting off the road.

You made two claims:

1) That in the 2000-plus years of popedom, the ONLY pope to ever build substantive bridges amongst Catholics and Jews was JPII, and
2) Pope Pius sold out to fascism--and he did it to save face.

As I said, the 1933 Concordat was about the Church surviving a regime that was fundamentally at odds with the Church. To preserve its existence and independence in internal governance, the Church agreed to not openly oppose the Reich government--Hitler misinterpreted the meaning of the Concordat as meaning the Church supported the Reich (but that was not Pius' fault, it, but Hitler's). That's not selling out to fascism. If it is, then you would have to say Roosevelt and Churchill sold out to Communism by allying with Stalin and the Soviets--and you're going to be hard pressed to find a more sober-minded anti-communist than Winston Churchill.

Pius not only commanded that Catholic institutions protect Jews, but he did it himself by providing Jews shelter in the Vatican and the papal summer residence at Castel Gandolfo. Plus, the historical record shows that he was constantly contact with foreign diplomats to apprise them of the Jewish situation and use the Church as a vehicle of intelligence sharing.

Pius (and foreign diplomats, BTW) knew the way to maintain the position of rescuing Jews (and keep Catholics from persecution--priests and religious were persecuted by Nazis also, Dachau alone imprisoned 1000's of Catholic priests) was to maintain the appearance of neutrality. Notice the word "neutrality", which is different than "collaboration".

Anyhow, I still stand by my assertion that your post was absolute baloney--but don't take it personally. :)

History / Why is Vatican traditionally on German and not on Polish side? [65]


Absolute baloney!

If you're talking about the 1933 Concordat, it's easy to look at it through a post-WWII lens and make moral judgments, but that's a practice in historical reactionism. In 1933, the Church enter an agreement to not openly oppose the Reich government and in turn the Reich would allow the Church to preserve and keep independent its institutions and churches. Once the Reich broke the agreement, Pius assumed his vocal opposition of the Nazis (he opposed them when he was stationed in Germany during the Nazi rise). He tampered down his public opposition when it became clear that his public attacks were causing an increase of Catholic persecution by the Nazis. However, he secretly promoted that Catholic institutions do everything to protect Jews. Probably the most powerful illustartion of Pius not selling out the fascism was the Chief Rabbi of Rome during the Nazi oppression converted to catholicism after the war because of Pius' courage and witness of charity to the Jewish people.

News / Coal-Powered Poland Refuses to "Go Green". EU Ain't Happy. [304]

I was in Poland mid-Dec through mid-Jan and gas for the car was a little above 5 PLN per liter. Household electricity costs are around .25 euro cents per kwh, that's double the US average. Germans pay about .31 euro cents per kwh. Natural gas on average is something like $6.50 per gallon, whereas US is below $3. What's so frustrating about this is that Europe is sitting on an ocean of oil and has plenty of coal to lower energy prices.

I live in Cincinnati and gas was $2.05/gallon today.

News / Coal-Powered Poland Refuses to "Go Green". EU Ain't Happy. [304]

European energy prices are obscene! If Europe started fracking, different ballgame. If I recall correctly, Poland had some fracking success but had the EC hammer come upon their heads.

News / Modern F-35 bought by Poland. Good decision? [288]

It's going to be interesting to see what develops in Germany, and the EU for that matter, over the next 10-15 years. There's some very strong headwinds that'll need to be navigated. Let's hope none of these warplanes need to be used.

News / Modern F-35 bought by Poland. Good decision? [288]

Germany ended up buying Typhoons?

News / Modern F-35 bought by Poland. Good decision? [288]


You're making it sound like it, indeed, was a political decision.

News / Modern F-35 bought by Poland. Good decision? [288]

What's reported in the media and what is actual fact aren't necessarily the same thing. Like I said, I believe it has more to do with politics than anything else--our countries don't see eye-to-eye on many things. Never underestimate the pettiness of political actors.

The F-35 is not perfect--nothing is--but contemporary air warfare isn't like Tom Cruise in Top Gun. It's been trending towards out-of-view striking for decades, which makes the need to be the fastest to be the best an outdated mode of thinking. It's more about stealth, range, and payload--mach 1.6 is plenty fast for what this plane is meant to do operationally...and it's meant to be a highly lethal plane. Apparently, many of the pilots who fly it think it's a fantastic warplane.

And, that German radar incident wasn't a blind test. It knew the F-35 was in the area. For it to be a conclusive test, it would have to be blind so it could determine if the signals were from a plane or not. That didn't happen, so I wouldn't put much stock in it.

News / Modern F-35 bought by Poland. Good decision? [288]

Maybe the problem isn't the plane, but those who make the decisions on what to buy. It may have something to do with politics. Or, with what the German military wants to accomplish operationally with the planes it buys.

Personally, I think it has more to do with politics, but I really don't know since I'm not privy to the conversations being had between the German decision-makers. All I know is that the aerospace professionals I'm close to have become impressed with the new generation of F-35.

News / Modern F-35 bought by Poland. Good decision? [288]


I've noticed that. I suppose this is the attitude BB was warning about when the AfD began its emergence.


5 Years ago, I might have nodded my head in agreement. It seemed like the US had lost its sense of self and confidence. That we indeed were in a period of managed decline. But, come to find out, the majority of Americans still have a brightly burning fire in the belly and self-confidence. In three short years we have realigned ourselves and are ascending economically, militarily, and globally. Some argue we are stronger than we have ever been--and they just might be right.

News / Modern F-35 bought by Poland. Good decision? [288]


Hear ye! Hear ye! Glad to see you warmed up to the Great Combover.

My best friend and his dad built a aerospace engineering consulting business that worked on a lot of defense contracts. About 10 years ago, they weren't fans of the F-35. They were skeptical of the joint force complexities of the aircraft ever being smoothed out and they thought it was a big waste of money. Word now is that it's meeting its potential and is a lethal warplane. That single engine is powerful and makes it lightweight and capable of long ranges. This thinking that the fastest is the bestest is outdated. It's all about out-of-view engagement--the F-35 seems to be top-notch in that category.

I think its time you drop the push for a Gerpolia and embrace an Ameripolia!

News / PiS candidates are losing positions in EU Parliament. Will they keep power in Poland? [358]


Is the pessimism about the Grman economy as bad as it seems? Selling 30-year bonds at negative interest is not a good short-run sign--at least psychologically. What's causing the pessimism?


What do you see are the redeeming qualities of LGBT for Polish society--or any society for that matter?


It may just be a mistake, but are you separating Jesus from God? Catholicism and nearly every other mainline Protestant sect acknowledge Jesus as God--the Second Person of the Holy Trinity. If you prefer Jesus, then you must accept Mary, as she is the chosen vessel of God from which Jesus obtains His flesh. Torq may (or may not) have a romantic idea of Marian kinghthood, but there's no denying the crucial and inseperable part the Church has played in Polish history and the special place that Marian devotion has played in the enduring spirit of Polish life. It wasn't secular ideologies that carried Polish identity (they seemed to want to either destroy or compromise it), but the Church and her special Marian devotion carried it--and Polish Marian devotion is more robust than anywhere else in the world.

USA, Canada / Historic(al) Americans and their ties with Poland/Poles [78]

Not annoyed at all, I enjoy railing against leftists.

Barb Mikulski, former US Senator from Maryland or VA. She's was a bleeding-heart type. A pro-abort. I'm not certain, but I don't think she was too bad on trade, I believe she came out against NAFTA.

USA, Canada / Historic(al) Americans and their ties with Poland/Poles [78]

First time I've ever heard of her. Did she work as an actress over here (the US), and, more importantly, did she use her Polish name?

The guy in the picture is Woodrow Wilson - 28th President of the US of A. The posterboy of leftist elitism. A disaster of a President--although the directive for an independent Poland in his 14 Points is a glimmer of light. Other than that, he's in Obama's company of terrible Presidents, IMHO.

USA, Canada / Historic(al) Americans and their ties with Poland/Poles [78]

No clue...Gertrude Stein before she started looking like a man?

To put a finer hair splitting point on it....When Jefferson and Washington were getting along, independence wasn't yet gotten, so they were fighting for American independence.

USA, Canada / Historic(al) Americans and their ties with Poland/Poles [78]

George Washington. It's the portrait of him resigning his commission over the continental army. What makes this such an important portrait is that Washington was offered enormous power over the new nation, but rejected it.

It might be astretch to call Jefferson and Washington mates. Although they admired each other, and Jefferson was chosen to be in Washington's cabinet, their relationship became very strained over differences of how the country should be shaped. Washington was sympathetic to the Federalists, while Jefferson was strongly anti-federalist.

The only ties to Poland that I know of is that he admired Kosciuszko and had K build the west point fort.

News / Abortion still under control in Poland [2986]

The Morning After Pill does three possible things:
1. delays ovulation by affecting the menstrual cycle,
2. inhibits the release of egg, or
3. irritates the uterine lining, thereby not allowing fertilized egg (a human life) to implant, in other words a chemical abortion.

Obviously, the woman wouldn't know which of the three is happening.

Depending on which abortion drug you're talking about, they block the development of the lining of the uterus thereby starving the developing human being (the RU-486); there is another drug that actual attacks and destroys the baby's cells; some used in later trimesters cause premature contractions, that often times crush the baby before the baby is aborted from the womb; or another later trimester method is the use of salt that poisons the baby dehydrates, causes convulsions, hemorrhaging, skin and tissue burning.

Life / Rate Poland (Life Quality / Culture and People / Food): 1-10! [232]

Yeah, our airport security is way over-the-top.

As a frequent visitor to Poland, I offer the following:

Quality of Life: as a visitor it's a 10/10--I drink decent beer, it's quiet, slower paced, and the in-laws pay for just about everything.

Food: 9/10, although I agree it has a general lack of imagination, I'm a sucker for smoked meats and cheeses plus bigos really hits the spot.

Culture/People: 8/10--the people are fantastic and the fact that Polish culture has survived partitions and the like and still survives speaks to its richness.

It's the the standard of living (wages:cost) that keeps me, the Polish wife, and kids in my beloved USA.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


Although I'm not familiar with this, it is definitely the exception and not the rule. Hence, it's not representative of the criminal justice system and this aspect of American civilized society. Matter-of-fact, since heads rolled, it proves that such dealings are contrary to what is acceptable in American society.


It's not quite murder by committee. Murder, at least understood by it legal definition, is the intentional taking of a human life without provocation or legal justification. The death penalty is a sentence of legal justification. You and I may disagree with its use as a legal justification, but it is not murder. Frankly, I find those who argue against the death penalty as a form of murder to muddy the legitimate arguments against the death penalty. For instance, do you think it just that Hans Frank, the Gauleiter of Poland, who oversaw the mass execution of Jews, Slavs, homosexuals, et al, was executed by committee? I think a civilized society is well within the clear parameters of justice to have executed Frank. One may put forward a compelling argument that executing Frank was an act to safeguard civilized society.


That's a whole lot of wishful thinking.


I accept your opinion that America is not civilized (I disagree, but your opinion is your opinion), but this thing about the rich getting richer and not paying their fair share of taxes is indisputably false. It is not even in the same universe as reality. The rich pay the vast majority of taxes in the US. Most earners (like myself) who make $50,000.00 or less pay little to no income tax--most is refunded to them when they file their taxes. I know of what I speak, I work in the field.


Please name me one person in the US who has died because they were denied health care. It's unlawful for a health care facility to deny help to anyone in need of medical care--the uninsured, as well as the insured.


Do you propose that American investors pull their investments from Poland? I certainly hope they do no such thing, I want Poland to grow economically--I love the place :)


So, you have basically deemed virtually every country on the face of the Earth uncivilized.


Not very convincing, Pip. I don't know if you have children or not, but let's say you do. Furthermore, let's say you live in one of these uncivilized uber-violent cities in the US. You and the kids are home eating pizza and drinking coca-cola while watching a movie. Your husband--a rich guy--is in his home office working on new ways to not pay his fair share of taxes :) All of a sudden, some thug busts down the door and threatens you and the kids. Husband--who is not only rich, but a gun owner--puts down his nefarious complicit tax cheating pen and gets his gun. Husband with gun in tote runs to where you and the kids are to find a guy who looks more like the incredible hulk than a rich tax cheat lurching toward your youngest child with a life-threatening object in his hand. Instead of your youngest being harmed physically, the malcontent is blown away by your husband pulling the trigger on his .45--like 99.8% of all American gun owners it's the first time he's shot somebody. Do you still think that that gun and gun owner are stupid?

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


The vast, and I mean vast, majority of murders in the US are connected to the drug trade. For instance, in my middle-sized Midwestern city the murder rate is rather high (we had 70 murders last year in a population of 300,000 or so). Very few of those were not related to the drug trade. Most of these murders are in concentrated areas. Go outside of those concentrated areas, that is most other areas in the city, and violent crime is low.


I'm against it personally, but how does having the death penalty make a society uncivilized? BTW, not all states in the US have the death penalty something like 34 of them do, the federal government does not have a death penalty.


Again, you're talking about 24 states that have such laws, and most of them are administered loosely.


You got me on this one, I'm not aware of kids being incarcerated for profit with kickbacks to judges. There are private-run prison facilities, but they incarcerate about 5 to 6% of America's prisoners. Hardly enough to be considered representative.

Ishatu, I'm interested in knowing what you define as civilized--I don't mean this smugly, I'm genuinely curious.

Law / The right to own guns: would you support such legislation in Poland? [2237]


I don't think America has ever taught that guns are a necessity. What we have always been taught is that the 2nd Amendment of the Constitution guarantees us the right to bear arms. That's quite a large difference, pip.


The US Constitution was written about 200 years after Europeans began colonizing the North American continent. It was the Constitution that made it a right. And, it was made a right for several reasons, one being to arm the population to fend off any government strong-arming and another was the ability to protect and preserve individual life and property. Although I do not own a gun, I strongly believe that gun ownership is as valid today as it was for the colonists and revolutionaries.


I'm sure there are Poles who disagree.


Poland certainly is a civilized society. Are you inferring that the US isn't a civilized society, pip?