History / What do Poles owe to Germans? [451]

If it is any consolation, his rule is also considered to have negatively impacted Saxony. Because while Dresden owes many of its' most famous tourist attractions to him, he also wasted the wealth on Saxony on ultimately pointless and even harmful endeavours (e.g. bribing his way to becoming king of Poland, and starting the war against Sweden). Meanwhile Prussia continued to increase his power under its' competent and frugal kings, eventually annexing large parts of Saxony.

News / POKO and LGBT lobby is trying to sexualize children in Poland. Now they aim for adoption [120]

@delphiandomine
So it was just the typical Spike argument than? Making some wild claims, deliberately taking something out of context while hoping nobody checks it.

Then again, this is all those people have left.

News / POKO and LGBT lobby is trying to sexualize children in Poland. Now they aim for adoption [120]

Yes, I am waiting. Unless you show me where in the official guideline (to which I gave you the link) is this supposed quotation.

Btw thanks, your link just gave me a virus alert.

News / POKO and LGBT lobby is trying to sexualize children in Poland. Now they aim for adoption [120]

@Spike31

You owe us an apology for spreading lies on this forum.

Especially one that can be so easily disproven. The quote you gave us does not in any form show up in any form in this document (as a quick text search could have told you).

News / POKO and LGBT lobby is trying to sexualize children in Poland. Now they aim for adoption [120]


The official guidelines can btw. be found here (in various languages): And quelle surprise, there is no mention of children from 0-4.

who.int/reproductivehealth/publications/technical-guidance-sexuality-education/en/


And the educational aims for children from 5-8 years are as follow:

Key idea: Children should understand what is and
what is not appropriate touching
Learners will be able to:
define 'good touch' and 'bad touch' (knowledge);
recognize that there are some ways of touching children
that are bad (attitudinal);
demonstrate what to do if someone is touching them in
a bad way (skill).

All of this is on page 71 of the document.
In short, children should be able to understand when they are being abused, and know that they should call for help. Spike has been proven wrong before on this forums in the past, and this is not the first time sources do not support his argument, but honestly, this was way too easy.

News / POKO and LGBT lobby is trying to sexualize children in Poland. Now they aim for adoption [120]


This is really all you ilk have left. Lies, misconceptions and propaganda. Which is why you are steadily losing this fight.

When you think rationally about it, there is no good reason why LBGT should not have the same rights other. The broad majority would not be affected by it in any way, and those who are affected could lead a better life. But some people seemingly take a lot satisfacton by spitefully denying others the same rights they enjoy.

News / POKO and LGBT lobby is trying to sexualize children in Poland. Now they aim for adoption [120]


No word on the many paedophiles in the Catholic church, including Polish priests and even bishops?

google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/archbishop-on-trial-for-paedophile-crimes-found-dead-in-vatican-1.2332641%3Fmode%3Damp&ved=2ahUKEwix66K6xoThAhVQK1AKHSf0Cv4QFjAPegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw1PsMKCaUgRwlSiWcNQEh_t&ampcf=1

News / POKO and LGBT lobby is trying to sexualize children in Poland. Now they aim for adoption [120]


This just illustrates that there are no valid arguments against it, otherwise you would not so desperately cling to words that are deliberately chosen to obscure the truth. Teaching children that LBGT is perfectly normal, and that LBGT should not be discriminated against, is simply telling thwm the truth. Nobody gets hurt, and those who are LBGT might have a better life because of it.


This is just histerical. The Catholic Church, one of the biggest opponents of LBGT-rights has now been revealed to have systematically protected priests who molested children. One of the highest cardinals have been found guilty in Australia of this very crime. A Polish archbishop died recently after tons of evidence came up that he did the same. Does that mean that all Catholics are potential rapists, and that opponents of LBGT are potential rapists too?

Again, I have yet to encounter a single plausible argument against letting LBGT people adopt children.

News / POKO and LGBT lobby is trying to sexualize children in Poland. Now they aim for adoption [120]


All the more important to fight for it. Things only change when you fight for it.

News / POKO and LGBT lobby is trying to sexualize children in Poland. Now they aim for adoption [120]

Since there is no good argument against adoption by LBGT couples (except good old bigotry), kudos to him for his bravery.
With the emergence of prominent politicians that finally support LBGT-rights, we might very well see some drastic changes in Poland within the next decade.

History / Cursed soldiers controvercy - not all Poles respect them [320]

It served the US and the UK very well in WWII. And it won the Cold War. In fact, judging how ineffective authoritatian systems tend to be, democracies are better suited to solve crisis than dictatorships.

History / History of two Neighbors: Poland - Germany Interrelations [283]


You are joking right? Those men fought more than von Braun ever did. They sacrificed their health and eventual life for a better Germany. What did von Braun ever sacrifice?

If Germany had had more people like them, we would have avoided the Third Reich. If Germany had had more people like von Braun, Hitler would have succeeded with his madness.

History / History of two Neighbors: Poland - Germany Interrelations [283]

The most generous interpretation of Von Braum is imho someone similar to Dr. Faust. He sold his soul to the Devil (Hitler) to satisfy his own ambitions. Hardly a hero in any case.

I don't know why anyone would pick him over contemporaries who deserve respect far mlre than he did. Like Friedrich Ebert, Walther Rathenau, Gustav Stresemann und Otto Wels.

History / History of two Neighbors: Poland - Germany Interrelations [283]


Because all hostorians disagree about is how many of the confirmed victims died in the KZs, versus how many were killed before they arrived there (e.g. via execution through the SD and other units).

Also and most importantly, the number you quoted was not the most accepted number of victims in Ausschwitz by historians. This was just a number the Ausschwitz museum (which was not politically independwnt) clinged to since 1945. Historians had already startened to question it decades eralier, but the political circumstances (most Western historians had no access to archives in Eastern Europe) made it impossible to verify it.

Again, we know the identities of at least 5m victims. All holocaust deniers can do is deliberately lying or ignoring evidence, but against this figure, they are powerless.


On the contrary, they prove that at least 5m people were killed.

History / History of two Neighbors: Poland - Germany Interrelations [283]


It is more likely that he did know about this, yet decided to ignore it.


Some of them. Not all of them obviously, we are talking about tens of thousands of documents. But I e.g. recently discovered a few documents in our local archive that prove the fate of a few jewish citizen from my hometown. The city got informed in 1944 that said citizens had died after being "evacuated" to Eastern Europe.


And they are going to be revised in the future as new evidwnce emerges, the main problem is that in Eastern Europe citizen records were very sparsw to begin with, which means we do not know the identity of every victim. However we can verify the identity of 5m victims, which means that any revision under this nunber is next to impossible.


No that is where you are completely wrong. Historians do not simply take a look at Auschwitz, interview a few survivors and then write a book about it. The overwhelming evidence they investigate are documents. Death certificates, registries, and so on. Just like astronomers spend most of their time doing math, instead of looking through telescopes, historians mostly have to investigate (usually written) evidence.


And the planets on pictures are usually edited before they are published to help the general publuc to visisualize them. That does not mean that they do not exist.

History / History of two Neighbors: Poland - Germany Interrelations [283]


Yes and why is that so difficult to believe? There are many cases of often celebrated scientists who later turn out to be frauds. He was simply caught early on.


Those aspects are ultimately pointless for the discussion at large. The Nazis left a large paper trail behind which can be used to pinpoint the number of Jewish victims between 5-7million jews. This paper trail aroubd with the other evidence is so conclusive that no honest historian cn deny them. Which is why you can pick out the frauds by simply looking how much space they dedicate on debunking the "flashy" evidence in e.g. Ausschwitz, while ignoring the rest.


No, because all historians disagree on how many jews were killed in Ausschwitz or in operations elseshere. The identity of around 5m victims is quite well documented.

History / History of two Neighbors: Poland - Germany Interrelations [283]


Because the number of at least 5 million murdered jews during the Holocaust is beyond dispute and proven by countless documents. You have to deliberately ignore this evidence to come up with a number which is significantly below the threshold.


No, he was not allowed to finish his academic research because it became clear that he did not adhere to basic scientific rules (which became even more obvious when he published several flawed papers under a pseudonym).

History / History of two Neighbors: Poland - Germany Interrelations [283]

Because it is not. You just have to respect the basic rules of academic research, which means acknowledging sources that disprove your theory, and to not invent sources to support your own theory. Holocaust deniers usually fail to uphold both, and thus can not claim legitimate research as an excuse.


More like an unrepentant Nazi who made it her life's mission to denigrate and insult the victims of Nazism. But I guess you can only find this revolting if you still harbor some sort of human decency.

History / History of two Neighbors: Poland - Germany Interrelations [283]

I think you are underestimating how run down the East German economy was at the end, and how attractive West Germany was for East Germans. The problem was not simply down to debts, but the rotting infrastructure and antiquated production processes. The Politburo was warned in the middle 1980s that unless there were heavy investments into the crumbling ancient parts of the cities, they would literally rot away until the early 1990s.


I have quite a lot of respect for Thatcher, but it is obvious that she really dropped the ball during the negotiations for the German reunification. She was completely irrationial, unlike her usual calculating self. No wonder she was ousted shortly afterwards by her own party.


That sounds very unlikely. Besides West Berlin was not under the authority of the FRG, but the occupying powers, so legally speaking it would have been impossible for him.


The debts were not really the problem, because even though the GDR could no longer pay them back by 1989, they were relatively low. The GDR needed investments instead, and who would have invested into a country that just failed to uphold their debts?

History / History of two Neighbors: Poland - Germany Interrelations [283]

Why, it is perfectly sensible from his point of view. Steinmeier belongs to the SPD, and the SPD believes since Willy Brandt that talking with your enemies is more effective than enmity. That does not mean that his congratulation was appropiate, but it does explain that the motiv behind it was no antisemitism.

But if something like this already makes your blood boil, you should really check on what e.g. Gedeon has written and said about jews. And while reading this, you always have to keep in mind that this was not deemed enough to expel him from the AfD. I guarantee you that afterwards you will feel very foolish for claiming that the AfD is more caring for jews than other parties.

History / History of two Neighbors: Poland - Germany Interrelations [283]


Claiming that jews were responsible for their persecution throughout history. Claiming that there is no evidence that the Protocols of the Elders of Zions are a forgeries. Claiming that judaism is behind the development of modern institutions like the rule of law, which supposedly perverted the German character. Gedeon is guilty of all of this and more, yet the AfD did not think that this was enough to expel him.


Steinmeier was heavily involved in negotiating the Iran deal, and he is one of those trying to save it because he knows that it is the best chance to secure Israel's safety. In this context did he make his congratulation.

History / History of two Neighbors: Poland - Germany Interrelations [283]


That seems to be a more appropiate description for the attempt to bring up e.g. Steinmeier when I mentioned the antisemitism of prominent AfD members. The AfD is the only party right to the Left party that tolerates open antisemites within its' ranks. That much is undisputable.


That is concerning, because the evidence is there for everybody to see.


Germans were once the worst enemies of the jews, they commited crimes on a scale against them on a scale unmatched by anyone up to this day. Yet they changed (though as the rise of the AfD shows, perhaps not as much as one might have hoped). There is no reason to believe that, given time, Arabs would not go the same process.

History / History of two Neighbors: Poland - Germany Interrelations [283]


And to whom would this be? Egypt and SA have become de facto allies of Israel against Iran.


"Gaffes" like this are so common among the AfD that only the more egregious get attention nowadays. We are talking about a party that has open antisemites in their ranks, and seeks to undermine the rememberance of the Holocaust in Germany. This is far more concerning and pressing for the Zentralrat than some criticism towards Israel (which many of them share). It also helps that Merkel has been a staunch ally of Israel throughout her time as chancellor.

The AfD only cares about the jews (and LBGT, and women and so on) for as long as they can use them as an argument against the radical islam. Once that "threat" were eliminated, they would be next in line.


Indeed. And considering that the AfD failed to expel people like Gedeon and Höcke, their claims that they are concerned for the jews do not look very plausible. Well, they are plausible for people who desperately want to believe them to calm their conscious, but not to someone who looks for more than reassurement.

History / History of two Neighbors: Poland - Germany Interrelations [283]

The sad thing is, you probably really believe this nonsense. You have politicians in your party who are openly antisemitic, are against rememberance of the Holocaust, the Zebtralrat der Juden is warning against voting for the AfD yet you claim that it is really the other parties who are against jews...

History / History of two Neighbors: Poland - Germany Interrelations [283]

And yet they have openly antisemite politicians like Wolfgang Gedeon in leading positions.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfgang_Gedeon#Accusations_of_antisemitism

History / Polish and German Borders-Justice for Both Countries or not? [37]

Well, a very quick google search found this entry on the official NPD website. Two NPD politicians recently held a speech in Görlitz:


Translation:

Because politicians from the "established" parties refuse to talk about it until today, are we politicians from the NPD required to mention the legal status of the territories east of the Oder and Neisse, which are German territories under Polish adminastration. Though this topic has disappeared from public discourse, it should nevertheless be deliberately ignored.

Link:

npd.de/gemeinsam-europas-herausforderungen-meistern-gemeinsam-erinnern/

History / Poland - problem for Germany? (historically continual hostility of German state on Poland) [154]


Perhaps the fact that Merkel's government is not in any way a dictatorship, and that the AfD only represents a small minority in the country?

History / Poland - problem for Germany? (historically continual hostility of German state on Poland) [154]

You don't even see the contradiction when you claim that the AfD is democratic, yet you call the other democratic parties "system parties"... .

History / Poland - problem for Germany? (historically continual hostility of German state on Poland) [154]

Well, if what he says is true, it might really be time to have a closer look at our security forces.

History / Poland - problem for Germany? (historically continual hostility of German state on Poland) [154]


As opposed to the real far-right crazies in the Afd? Once the AfD of its' lunatics `a la Höcke we can talk about political cooperation. But before that they should not be considered for political cooperation.