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POKO and LGBT lobby is trying to sexualize children in Poland. Now they aim for adoption


Spike31 2 | 876
15 Mar 2019  #1
An openly homosexual member of a liberal POKO party in Poland, and a vice-president of Warsaw, has said in an interview with Gazeta Prawna today: "at first we would like Poles to get used to a notion of homosexual civil partnership but the main goal is to allow homosexual couples to adopt children"

The whole liberal opposition is in panic now since the general acceptance of adoption of children by homosexuals is minimal (to say the least) in Poland.

Is this going to be a final nail to the coffin for POKO party?
Tacitus 2 | 808
15 Mar 2019  #2
Since there is no good argument against adoption by LBGT couples (except good old bigotry), kudos to him for his bravery.
With the emergence of prominent politicians that finally support LBGT-rights, we might very well see some drastic changes in Poland within the next decade.
OP Spike31 2 | 876
15 Mar 2019  #3
@Tacitus, I'm also content that they play with open cards when it comes to support for LGBT card, homosexual "marriages" and adoption in the year of elections.

Approval rate for same sex marriages and especially for the adoption of children by them are very low in Poland.

This will give right wing parties a fuel and an election boost from centrist (and undecided) voters.
Tacitus 2 | 808
15 Mar 2019  #4
children by them are very low in Poland.

All the more important to fight for it. Things only change when you fight for it.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,314
15 Mar 2019  #5
Approval rate for same sex marriages and especially for the adoption of children by them are very low in Poland.

While the approval rate for adoption of children by LBGT couples is indeed very low in Poland, you must have (deliberatly?) missed my post on homosexual civil partnership [post #104 in "What do decent Poles think about true rightists?" thread]:

Society is changing quickly in Poland.
For example, same-sex registered partnerships were accepted by 33% of Poles in 2013 (that is, in the sixth year of the liberal PO government in power), while today (the fourth year of the conservative PiS government in power) this figure has reached 56%
. [All data according to IPSOS polls]

https://polishforums.com/life/decent-poles-think-true-rightists-84619/4/#msg1680317
OP Spike31 2 | 876
15 Mar 2019  #6
All the more important to fight for it.

And that's why normal Poles are fighting against LGBT card which aims to sexualize their children at school.

Things only change when you fight for it.

So let's look at the quality of those people who aimed at making that change. Here's an example from Scotland:

James Rennie, chief executive of LGBT Youth Scotland, is serving a life sentence for sexually assaulting a three-month-old child

bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-15790605
delphiandomine 84 | 17,590
15 Mar 2019  #7
Is this going to be a final nail to the coffin for POKO party?

The same party which, as the leading party within the KE electoral bloc, recorded a 2 point advantage in the most recent poll?

All the more important to fight for it. Things only change when you fight for it.

It's also not an electoral issue. In fact, it's very savvy to bring up this kind of thing, because it's a trap for right wing parties. They'll now howl homophobia from the rooftops, thus dragging them into a social debate and pushing them into the right wing, well away from the centrists that you need to win elections. More to the point, if it pushes PiS further to the right, then they'll also take votes away from the far right parties while losing support from the centrists.
OP Spike31 2 | 876
15 Mar 2019  #8
The same party which, as the leading party within the KE electoral bloc, recorded a 2 point advantage in the most recent poll?

If you compare separate results for PO + PSL + SLD from 2014 EU elections (28 seats) with 2019 estimates [polls] for POKO, which is a coalition of aforementioned parties (22 seats at 35% support) you'll clearly see that they'll lose 6 seats.

And that's why I'm ma huge defender of math exams on Matura so the education system won't produce functional idiots :-)

But shhh, let them rest assured that they're gaining support.
delphiandomine 84 | 17,590
15 Mar 2019  #9
You really are shilling so hard for PiS, aren't you? For an alleged nationalist, you seem to care way too much about the opposition.

Still, obviously mathematics aren't your strong point, because you've forgotten to mention that Wiosna are sitting there on 11% as well. 46%, plus 4% for Razem's grouping, gives a clear majority over right wing parties, which will only gain 44%.
Tacitus 2 | 808
15 Mar 2019  #10
aims to sexualize their children at school.

This just illustrates that there are no valid arguments against it, otherwise you would not so desperately cling to words that are deliberately chosen to obscure the truth. Teaching children that LBGT is perfectly normal, and that LBGT should not be discriminated against, is simply telling thwm the truth. Nobody gets hurt, and those who are LBGT might have a better life because of it.

So let's look at the quality of those people who aimed at making that change

This is just histerical. The Catholic Church, one of the biggest opponents of LBGT-rights has now been revealed to have systematically protected priests who molested children. One of the highest cardinals have been found guilty in Australia of this very crime. A Polish archbishop died recently after tons of evidence came up that he did the same. Does that mean that all Catholics are potential rapists, and that opponents of LBGT are potential rapists too?

Again, I have yet to encounter a single plausible argument against letting LBGT people adopt children.
delphiandomine 84 | 17,590
15 Mar 2019  #11
Just as an aside, Spike's desperation might lie in the fact that young people are abandoning PiS. In the latest poll, young people support parties as:

KE: 24%
Wiosna: 22%
K'15: 18%
PiS: 13%

Or in other words, among the four largest parties, centre/left politics defeats right wing politics among young people 46%-31%. Quite significant.
OP Spike31 2 | 876
15 Mar 2019  #12
Wiosna is not part of POKO and neither is Razem.

And I was also kind enough to not add Nowoczesna, which was devoured by PO, into this equation which would only make the projected election results even worse for POKO coalition.

And yes, I am rooting for Konfederacja first and foremost yet my political sympathies doesn't make me blind to political reality :-)

James Rennie, chief executive of LGBT Youth Scotland, is serving a life sentence for sexually assaulting a three-month-old child

No word on Scottish LGBT paedophile ring? The subject of this thread is LGBT indoctrination you know
Tacitus 2 | 808
15 Mar 2019  #13
No word on Scottish LGBT paedophile ring?

No word on the many paedophiles in the Catholic church, including Polish priests and even bishops?

google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/archbishop-on-trial-for-paedophile-crimes-found-dead-in-vatican-1.2332641%3Fmode%3Damp&ved=2ahUKEwix66K6xoThAhVQK1AKHSf0Cv4QFjAPegQICRAB&usg=AOvVaw1PsMKCaUgRwlSiWcNQEh_t&ampcf=1
OP Spike31 2 | 876
15 Mar 2019  #14
This just illustrates that there are no valid arguments against it, otherwise you would not so desperately cling to words that are deliberately chosen to obscure the truth.

Sex education guideline [AD 2019] according to WHO - World Health Organization - which are a template for sex education at schools and pre-schools in Western Europe:

for children: 0-4 years old: "at this stage children should learn about the pleasure of touching their bodies and masturbation"

londynek.net/wiadomosci/Standardy+edukacji+seksualnej+w+Europie+wedlug+WHO+wiadomosci+news,/wiadomosci/article?jdnews_id=58069

Now I understand that paedophiles and other sexual predators which are over-represented in LGBT groups are very excited about this new prospect.
Tacitus 2 | 808
15 Mar 2019  #15
sexual predators which are over-represented

This is really all you ilk have left. Lies, misconceptions and propaganda. Which is why you are steadily losing this fight.

When you think rationally about it, there is no good reason why LBGT should not have the same rights other. The broad majority would not be affected by it in any way, and those who are affected could lead a better life. But some people seemingly take a lot satisfacton by spitefully denying others the same rights they enjoy.
delphiandomine 84 | 17,590
15 Mar 2019  #16
Sex education guideline [AD 2019] according to WHO

Why don't you link us to the actual guidelines rather than claims made on a random Polish language website?

Lies, misconceptions and propaganda.

You'll notice that they never actually link to actual sources, only to people talking about the subject.
OP Spike31 2 | 876
15 Mar 2019  #17
This is really all you ilk have left. Lies, misconceptions and propaganda. Which is why you are steadily losing this fight.

Are quotes from WHO sex education standards - which are a template for sex education for children at schools and pre-schools in W. Europe - "lies, misconceptions, and propaganda"?

I even think that's good that you call it a lie and can't believe that they would demoralise innocent children in such way.

Unfortunately, it's not a lie but a twisted Western European reality which is looking for a way to spread to Poland.
delphiandomine 84 | 17,590
15 Mar 2019  #18
We need actual source documents Spike, not fantasies of Polish nationalists living in the UK.
Tacitus 2 | 808
15 Mar 2019  #19
Why don't you link us to the actual guidelines rather than claims made on a random Polish language website?

The official guidelines can btw. be found here (in various languages): And quelle surprise, there is no mention of children from 0-4.

who.int/reproductivehealth/publications/technical-guidance-sexuality-education/en/

each separated into four age groups (5-8
years; 9-12 years; 12-15 years and 15-18+ years) intended for
learners at primary and secondary school levels.

And the educational aims for children from 5-8 years are as follow:

Key idea: Children should understand what is and
what is not appropriate touching
Learners will be able to:
define 'good touch' and 'bad touch' (knowledge);
recognize that there are some ways of touching children
that are bad (attitudinal);
demonstrate what to do if someone is touching them in
a bad way (skill).

All of this is on page 71 of the document.
In short, children should be able to understand when they are being abused, and know that they should call for help. Spike has been proven wrong before on this forums in the past, and this is not the first time sources do not support his argument, but honestly, this was way too easy.
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,162
15 Mar 2019  #20
This will never pass. First off the majority of poles still are against gay marraige, and adoption is even more taboo. Both recent ipsos and cbos polls confirm this.

Tu jest Polska nie Bruksela, tu sie pedalowania NIE POPIERA!!!!
Tacitus 2 | 808
15 Mar 2019  #21
@Spike31

You owe us an apology for spreading lies on this forum.

Especially one that can be so easily disproven. The quote you gave us does not in any form show up in any form in this document (as a quick text search could have told you).
OP Spike31 2 | 876
15 Mar 2019  #22
You'll notice that they never actually link to actual sources, only to people talking about the subject.

Who are "they"? Some sort of conspiracy theory? ;-)

Why don't you link us to the actual guidelines rather than claims made on a random Polish language website?

Here you go. The source. The table starts at page 38

bzga-whocc.de/fileadmin/user_upload/WHO_BZgA_Standards_English.pdf [in English]

bzga-whocc.de/fileadmin/user_upload/Dokumente/WHO_BzgA_Standards_polnisch.pdf [in Polish]

You owe us an apology for spreading lies on this forum.

You were saying? :-)
Tacitus 2 | 808
15 Mar 2019  #23
Yes, I am waiting. Unless you show me where in the official guideline (to which I gave you the link) is this supposed quotation.

Btw thanks, your link just gave me a virus alert.
OP Spike31 2 | 876
15 Mar 2019  #24
Yes, I am waiting. Unless you show me where in the official guideline (to which I gave you the link) is this supposed quotation.

bzga-whocc.de/fileadmin/user_upload/WHO_BZgA_Standards_English.pdf [in English]

Document called:

WHO Regional Office for Europe

WHO Standards for Sexuality Education in Europe

A framework
for policy makers,
educational and health authorities
and specialists


Page 38

The table. 1st column, 3rd row.

Btw thanks, your link just gave me a virus alert.

German WHO Collaboration Centre gave you virus alert? That may be a sign :-)
delphiandomine 84 | 17,590
15 Mar 2019  #25
this was way too easy.

Way too easy indeed. He hasn't actually read the document, because if he had, he'd know that it makes it clear that the education has to be suitable for the age.

Like all good PiS supporters, he specialises in finding pieces of information to be outraged at without considering the wider context. He doesn't understand what this means, or even how it should be taught.

In this matrix, information is understood to provide facts from the field of sexuality education in a balanced, comprehensive, age-appropriate way

There's nothing wrong with that. Facts are much more important than sexual myths, and Poland is particularly bad for the amount of myths held by young people. Page 35-36 makes it clear that age 0-4 is a foundation for later learning, so anyone who actually knows anything about education would see it as a clear intention for children to be informed that it's fine to be comfortable with their own bodies and that it's nothing to be ashamed of.
OP Spike31 2 | 876
15 Mar 2019  #26
This will never pass. First off the majority of poles still are against gay marraige, and adoption is even more taboo

That's true. It won't pass.

But it will be used by right wing parties as a political fuel for the upcoming elections :-)

I am that force that always wants evil, and always produces good
Faust


this was way too easy

Encourage his arrogance and deal a final blow.

My take on classic Sun Tzu quote :-)
Tacitus 2 | 808
15 Mar 2019  #27
@delphiandomine
So it was just the typical Spike argument than? Making some wild claims, deliberately taking something out of context while hoping nobody checks it.

Then again, this is all those people have left.
OP Spike31 2 | 876
15 Mar 2019  #28
So it was just the typical Spike argument

So have you read the aforementioned document, page 38?

Now I expect apologies. It doesn't have to be a new Prussian Homage but a simple "My dear Spike, I'm sorry for calling you a liar" will do :-)
Dirk diggler 9 | 4,162
15 Mar 2019  #29
Encourage his arrogance and deal a final blow.

So we'll finally be able to throw them off the pajac kultury? Sweeeeeet...

That's true. It won't pass.

PiS should hurry up and add other things to the constitution in addition to the existing article stating marraige is between man and woman. Like no more kebab, trans surgeries are illegal, death penalty for homos, pl law always trumps EU law, liberals must pay a 99.9% tax, traitors used as target practice, etc.
Ziemowit 12 | 3,314
15 Mar 2019  #30
Finding a cure for clowns like yourself - I would definitely inscribe this to the Constitution of Poland (and of any other country in the world, to be sure).


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