News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


I was referring to a beaurocratic body which steers the whole organization from Brussels.

Apart of that, out of 27 members there are those who have more to say than the others and they are steering the EU in their preferred direction. And now, in the wake of Brexit a combined political power of France+Germany and their smaller 'progressive' vassals will be even greater than before.


So you're saying: Poland, pay with your culture and your traditions (introduce so called homosexual "marriages" and sex 'education' for children, allow unlimited abortion laws etc.) and social and ethnic coherence (take "refugees" from Africa and middle east) for the access to a single market? Isn't it enough if we are paying with our goods and our labour and granted access to our market like in every normal and healthy economic exchange in the world?

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

My local (public) high school had a 10 then state-of-the-art Pentium MMX 166 PC's in 1997 (7 years before joining the EU). I clearly remember that because we played Diablo and Quake on LAN after school ;-)

In general, the ambition of most of my friends was to have a PC. Some families could afford a new gen PCs and some others an older refurbished one.

Saying that the EU has intruduced a bloody PCs to Poland and Polish children is plain silly.


We've gained an access to a single market which is a positive thing. And that's what we should focus on because it benefits us the most. We have to protect ourselves from a destructive and demoralizing ideological side of the EU and only reap the benefits of free trade. As long as we don't reach a majority vote for Polexit that is.

Poland has a competitive edge over established and more stagnated Western European economies and that's what we should use as our main asset. By no means we should imitate them because they've became a slowly declining civilizations. If we really have to immitate something then we could immitate a German economy from 50's and 60's...

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


I'd say that in a long run it leads to an economical stagnation and dissolution of traditional values, but we're on the same page here ;-)

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


Sure, apart of that they've also introduced the use of fire and the concept of spherical earth :-)

I had a ZX Spectrum since I was a little kid. Later on uprgaded to IBM PC. Most of my friends had simple computers like Commodore 64, Amiga 500 or Atari in the early 90's. I don't remember any young boy living in my neighbourhood in the 90's not being fascinated with IT technology and the use of computers. And even when they didn't owned a personal PC they used it at friends place or in an internet cafe.

All those modern game developing studios in Poland didn't grow out of thin air.

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

Economy is greatly influenced by a mentality and work ethics of people. That way a montain island like Japan with a virtual lack of a significant natural mineral resouces have grown to be an economic powerhouses of the world.


That's what I did with Poland and Ukraine, where you can see that a significant economic differences have started in the early 90's. The single european market has helped to boost the economical growth while some EU regulations has hampered it in one way or another. All in all, without those regulation and with a pure free market exchange I believe Poland would develop faster.

So you'll have to count the losses which are not visible to the eye simply because they were never allowed to see the light. In economy it is called an Opportunity Cost.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opportunity_cost

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


True, but it's thanks to a different mentality and work ethics of our people. Ukraine is a war torn country with a homo sovietcus mentality. A mentality which was greatly stopped in the communist years in Poland by an influence of the Catholic Church and our deeply rooted cultural traditions. East Germans, for example, have more homo sovieticus mentality than old generation Poles do. I'm referring to the "wall in the head" syndrome.

After the collapse of the Soviet Union we've started to grow at a different pace, long before Poland has joined the EU.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Ukraine#/media/File:GDP_PPP_Poland.svg

Obviously a single European market has helped Poland greatly and we made a great use of it as a society. To a point where less competitive countries like France have started to block it and inpose some barriers, like in a case of a delegated workers.


I belive that I've already explained that I live half-year here and half-year there. So for a half a year I breathe a heavily polluted air in London, and for another half I breathe equally polluted air in Warsaw.

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


Economic progress in a normal thing which happens to all normal economies unless they are run by commies and hardcore socialists like in Venezuela.

No doubt it was enhanced by a free trade European single market (and not by the EU regulations). I never said single market is a bad thing but to scrap the politico-ideological part of the union and leave the free market for European economies to thrive.

Another example are the CO2 emmisions quotas for which a country has to pay money which would hamper the Polish economy which is partially based on coal. Fortunately Poland was the only EU country sane enough to withdraw from it.

Btw: Poland is safer not thanks to the EU but despite it: we didn't take a large number of middle easter and african muslims that te EU wanted to enforce on us.


That's actually interesting cause I'd presume that the first newborn in Germany would have a name like Abdul or Mohhamed :-)

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


One can only be a "reasonable critic" when dealing with a project which is essentially good but has some flaws that needs to be addressed. The EU is not such a project.

To me the EU is an ideological project "a symbol of vanity of socialist intelectuals" as madam Margaret Thatcher put it. A project that doesn't benefit Poland and the values by which most regular Poles live by. It needs to be scrapped cause another '-exit' is only a half-measure. We would all be much more happy with a simple free trade zone without any politico-ideological attachments.

Happy New Year everyone! I'm taking my blumchen to a party so no more "hate speech" from me this year :-)

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


That's because the "EU army" project as an alternative to NATO has failed. At least for now.


German economic influence, especially in Europe, is still great. There's no denying that. German political influence has waned rapidly after 2015. Especially in central Europe. German cultural influence is, and always was, non existent.

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


American and British support to be precise. There's no delusion in Poland that France or Germany would oppose Russian in any significant way (not after a Russian invasion of Ukraine anyway). France because of their eternal love and ingnorance about Russia, Germany because of their economic interest in Russian mineral resources.

Not to mention that bundeswehr is a mess but you know this better than me I presume.


That's what I'm opting for: let's reduce our relationship to a purely economic one.


Sure, since the US is giving Germany a lesson how to do that right now, I bet Germany as a dilligent student would learn that.

And yet you forget that our economic relations are much more sophisticated. When it comes to the US or Britain yoou're purely an exporter. When it comes to Poland, Germany imports components which are then asembled and exported to the other Western countries with a great profit margin. So yes, you can halt that and shoot yourself in the foot just to show 'those bloody Poles' who's 'the boss'.

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

@Tacitus
All I can see in your words is: "do as we say, or we will invade you". Well, you don't have any significant tools of a military power projection so you have to be content with, more and more innefective, political pressure. Germany cannot even hit the economy of Poland since we are one of a crucial suppliers of components to German economy. Hitting Polish economy would be hitting German industry by proxy...

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


Money makes the world go around :-)

To be honest Germany and Netherlands are the only net benefactors of the eurocurrency. Even the France is losing money on it in a long term.

From a German perpective is completely practical to protect the status quo and to benefit from it.

businesslive.co.za/bd/world/europe/2019-02-25-netherlands-and-germany-the-only-real-euro-winners-study-finds/

They've sucked the juices out of South Europe while still being perceived by most as an EU finacial 'sponsors'. Not bad, in it? :-)

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

Yes, West Germany had a few decades of capitalism under the US influence. And a Marshall plan. Hence the economic difference between East and West

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


Wealth was created before 'socialist paradise' was even a thing. Even before Karl Marx who lived comfortably under his wealthy sponsor F.Engels and knew 'working class' people only from a pages of a books and newspapers wrote his "Capital"...

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

Do their names really matter? Just an EU beaurocrats who share a similar vision of 'federal Europe'. Nothing significant about them. They are perfectly replaceable by a beaurocratic machinery. Only the position and the power which comes with it matters. The whole system needs to be derailed, not some individuals.

What killed the USSR was an economic collapse. The EU is still too wealthy by a wealth accumulated by past generations to die like that. What will bring it down is a rebirth of a local national awakening movements and lack of faith in a 'brave new European socialist paradise'

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

Well, we have to deal with our local devils so let's start with Europe. The US was also penetrated by a cultural revolution.

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


That's what I'm calling it "boiling a frog" approach. The change is gradual but inevitable. And omnipresent. You can be deplatformed/demonitized from social media for sharing not 'politically correct' thoughts. Or you can loose your job for doing so on facebook. Or you can be ostracized for stating obvious facts which does't suit the official mainstream narrative.

So people often cope with it by auto-censoring themselves and not voicing any concerns. The falsely believe that by sitting quiet they will be safe. And the line of what is 'acceptable and inacceptable' what's to say and what's to do, is moving closer to them because there's no widespread resistance. I'm sure, being a German, you understand me more than anyone else may on this forum. You don't have to say nothing, it's enough for me that you know and that I know :-)

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

We can call it an EU Kolkhoz if you prefer @BratwurstBoy. What I'd like to do is to draw a pararell between the Soviet Union and the EU.

Both aim(ed) to deliver a "new man": the EU wants to create 'an European' (which would be a complete antithesis of a traditional meaning of what was considered to be an European) as opposed to Polish, French, Italian etc. who would be a citizen of the EU first and foremost. Soviet union wanted to develop a Homo Sovieticus.

And both systems also wanted to deliver a 'paradise on Earth' but by a different methods. The EU has chosen a soft Huxley-ian method based on deception instead of a hardcore Orwellian approach based on full frontal violence. It seems more bearable to most and that's the power of this approach. It's like boiling a frog. And yes, we are the frogs :-)

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

Too delicate?

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


Ziemowit, I spend half of the year in the Fatherland, and half in the - soon to be out of the EU - UK. I also travel a lot around Europe, mostly to Italy, Spain and the Netherlands. This has helped me to develop a wider perspective on that matter.

Poland has made a huge economic progress and what's more important an awareness of a national interest has grown at the same time. I've got no doubt that a distrust to the EU political bodies will raise and a conservative right forces like Konfederacja will grow with young generation.

Poland right now represents more of a traditional European values than the Western European countries dipped in a leftist sause do. "Europe" is not only a geographical term but also a set of values which has shaped our continent for centuries. Let's not confuse an EU Gulag with traditional Europe.

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


Since they are still willingly participating in this deal it must be much more beneficial for them than the EU membership which I believe wouldn't be a problem for them to obtain in a short period of time. History teaches us that Swiss are a very reasonable people run by a smart elites.


Free Single market is not "leftist" idea at all. The EU bodies which regulate it are. If a farmer wants to sell a carrot to a customer who is willing to pay the asking price - that's a free market. If you put a beaurocrat between them who is going to check if the carrot has the right shape and length before he is able to buy it - you've got an EU single market.

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


Poland doesn't need the EU, which is a beaurocratic cancer with a leftist bias to put it mildly. What Poland needs is a European single market for trade to which access is granted to countries which aren't the EU members like Switzerland and Norway.

The wealth and economical progress comes from trading and from industrial innovation, exchange of services not from silly EU directives.

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]


Not only mere unions but a whole countries used to split up in the past. It is not only possible but inevitable when there're such different aim and goals of an individual nantions.


Not if it was a marriage out of [misguided] love and the love is gone now. And there are no children to take care of either. Poland can remain a friends with [mutual] benefits with the EU ;-)

News / Polexit? Almost half of the Poles believe that Poland would be better off outside of the EU [548]

Poles are finally waking up.

This is a part of a wider and longer process of gaining awaraness by the whole nation of what a modern EU is and which direction it is heading. What is especially important is that it is the youngest generation that is waking up. That's evident even when it comes to the latest general elections which has rewarded a real right-wing national conservatives with 11 seats in a Polish parliament.

btw. Poles are not "euro-sceptics" but the EU -sceptics. The EU stands against all the values represented by the traditional European culture. Poles, as a Christians and conservatives who believe in a natural law, are Euro-enthusiasts.

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]


They're limiting the numbers of those who want to come to Europe to actually work in favour of those who come here to live on benefits

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]


The EU is a bit like an old toothless dog. It resembles a proper dog form a distance and it even barks but it cannot - and it will not - bite.

Not a while ago French and German tried to fix it by building a Bundeswehr on steroids - the so called EU army - but no other EU country was excited about it and for a good reason.

Study / 90% of Poles have university degree? [57]

University degree has devaluated significatly over the last few decades. Universities have become more and more ideological and "inclusive" which means that they accept less intelligent and less creative people. So having mgr in fron of ones face doesn't mean much these days, especially if its an mgr of "human science".

Life / Who's the best looking (and acting/singing) celebrity in Poland? [32]

Joanna Opozda by all measures

News / PiS candidates are losing positions in EU Parliament. Will they keep power in Poland? [358]

A hammer as in Charles Martel - Charles the Hammer, the ruler of France who has slaughter the invading Muslims in the Battle of Poiters (Tours).

News / PiS candidates are losing positions in EU Parliament. Will they keep power in Poland? [358]


I'm a white hat coder who code for living and not some shady hacker looking for fame on 4chan. And if I would turn to the "dark side" I would find a more suitable targets than PFs which I suspect could be taken down even by a Low Orbit Ion Cannon (am I right mods?).

Anyway, since those attempts were unsucessfulyou can rest safely that it wasn't me :-)


They are young, bright, radical idealists. A heavy hammer for neo marxism