Language / Why is the Polish language so difficult? [309]

Polish is perhaps more phonologically complex than Croatian or Bulgarian, yet not as much as Czech or Russian. Polish "soft-stem" 'dź' and 'zń' nouns somehow trip more easily off my tongue than either Russian or Czech palatalized consonants, particularly the "rz" ('z' with an upside down hat) combinations of the latter, such as in "Brno", "Hrdlicka" etc...

I missposted before, folks! I meant certain feminine "dź"-nouns (odpowiedź) and "źn"-nouns (przyjaźn).

Language / Why is the Polish language so difficult? [309]

More to the point, is it perhaps, only perhaps, you're threatened by an "outsider"/foreigner who knows your native language even better than you know English, and simply can't accept it?:-)

I've encountered this time and time again (even where I teach German, though often from Americans, oddly)

Polish is more challenging than German, though for other reasons. Polish has a quirky counting system, along with a tricky consonant-heavy pronuncation, yet a more or less predictable word order.

German word order can be nearly dizzying for many foreigners, yet pronunciation is straightforward. The inflections however, can seem both repetitive and perplexing!

Language / Why is the Polish language so difficult? [309]

@kpc.

TheOther and I maintain correctly that "das" is right in this sentence. "Dass" with a double "s" means "that" as a (subordinating) conjunction, as in

"It is important THAT you do your work!" etc.

Life / Boże Ciało (Corpus Christi) - a beautiful celebration in Catholic Poland [22]

Germans call it the same thing, "Fronleichnam":-)

Language / Why is the Polish language so difficult? [309]

Exactly, TheOther! I made the identical transference error from German into Polish!

"Powiem mamie!" = Ich sag's Mutti!
"Nie mów.." = Sag's ihr nicht! in the sense of "Das sollst du ihr nicht erzaehlen!" = You shouldn't/musn't/ought not to tell her

etc...

I tend to always think in German FIRST:-)

Language / Why is the Polish language so difficult? [309]

"Zaraz wracam!" = I'll be right back! (and correct) cf. English: "I am coming right back.", carrying the idea of a FUTURE action!

"Zaraz wrócę!" = I'll be right back! (and incorrect Polish) cf. (ungrammatical as well as illogial EnglishLOL) "I come right back.." [as I do every day].

As someone who realistically has little more than an advanced intermediate level of Polish, I still have to weigh my words before I translate Polish.

Speaking poses less of a challenge:-)

Language / Why is the Polish language so difficult? [309]

I translated "literally", apologies:-) I sometimes forget "mówić" is in Polish both "to speak" and " to say (to), "powiedzieć", "to tell" cf. Russian, "Mark said..." = Marc govoril vs. Marc zkazal etc...

See my problem?? Thinking German, writing Polish. Usually I have it under control, but my first-language instinct took over for a sec.
Sorry, once again. I endeavor to be much more careful, most of the time:-)

Language / Why is the Polish language so difficult? [309]

Będę mamusiu powiedział.

Nie niej powiedź!

Language / Why is the Polish language so difficult? [309]

NocyMrok,

My native-born Polish teacher (from that-time Lwów) told me that if the letter following, say, a "v-" or "s"-sound, is nearly identical to the sound of the preceding letter, e.g. "wE Wrocławiu", "wE Warszawie", wE Forest Hills", "zE swoim" etc., an e-vowel is obligatory in order to elide the two words!

Or was she incorrect?

Back for a moment to "POmieszkam..". I remember now (but it slipped my mind yesterday when posting!) that I might also have written instead "Będę mieszkał na chwilę we Forest Hills." No?

@Polonius,

For that reason, Russians can mimic an American-style accent, compared with Poles, Spanish-speakers and Italians:-)

Language / Why is the Polish language so difficult? [309]

Wow, what a veritable goldmine of info! Thank you, kpc21.

Never hurts to review. And indeed, what you said about Polish difficulties learning English, I can confirm first hand as an ESL-instructor:-)
Tenses seem often as obtuse to Slavs as aspects do to us.

Take for example, "mieszkać": Mieszkam we Forest Hills. = I live in Forest Hills.
POmieszkam we Forest Hills. = I've been living in Forest Hills (..for a while).
ZAmieszkam we Forest Hills. = I live in Forest Hills (.....as opposed to somewhere else!)

Is this the general idea?

Language / Why is the Polish language so difficult? [309]

Very instructive, kpc21!
Here, the very intricacies, yea, vagueries, of Polish aspects for foreigners.
Many thanks:-)

The distinction then between "POnalewać" vs. "nalać" (not even: "nalewać") is in English the difference between "He poured..." (then stopped) vs. "He

was pouring.." (continuously)?

Language / Why is the Polish language so difficult? [309]

The "straightforwardness" in reproducing "simple", i.e. basic, English sentences into Polish, ends rather abruptly, as soon the construction is beyond a mere "Where's the bookstore?" type deal! Where in English, the question of tense tends to dog even the more advanced foreign-born speakers, e.g. "How many languages are you speaking?" vs. (CORRECT!!!) "How many languages do you speak?", Polish too with its aspectual shifts, requires infinite care. Impenetrably difficult??? Scarcely. Nevertheless, knowing instinctively and properly when to employ "lać" vs. "nalać", "jechać" vs. "jeżdźić" etc, ad infintium, is no simple task either:-)

Language / Why is the Polish language so difficult? [309]

Done in by the diacritics, eh? Curses! Foiled (yet) again!!!!
:-)
CHOLERA!!!! czyli BLAST AND DOUBLE BLAST!!!!

Language / Why is the Polish language so difficult? [309]

My use of "swoim", I later realized, was indeed superfluous. Thank you:-)

On the other hand, were the sentence ambiguous, i.e. referring possibly to someone else's brothers, then, in order to avoid the "jego"/swój" confusion, I'd have opted for the latter!

"On nalał braciom piwo." Yep. Definitely reads/sounds better.

Here's something curious, people. The 2nd person singular imperative of the verbs "jechać" and "jeść" are both "jedź!"

Crazy, huh?

Language / Why is the Polish language so difficult? [309]

Hate to interject there, Pol'!

"On nalał swoim braciom piwo."

(And NO, I didn't cheat!!! With me, it's honestly right or honestly wrongLOL)

Language / Why is the Polish language so difficult? [309]

"Self-reliant" language?? Hmm, interesting translation, gość!

I'd say "isolated", myself. Then again, that's only me:-)
LOL

Language / Why is the Polish language so difficult? [309]

Polish counting, once again, was the hardest for me at the beginning. Not that memorizing vocab. etc.was a romp in the park, but it took me quite some time to master the cardinals correctly, particularly in writing.

In conversation, I could occasionally "slide by":-)

Language / Why is the Polish language so difficult? [309]

As a linguist and college-level instructor of German for many years, I can only concur regarding most of what you've said.
Polish word stock is usually unfamiliar to Americans especially, except if they've already studied Russian! The latter can help a little, of course, but only for the most basic similarities.

Polish nouns are ALL declined and this often includes even place names, something which rarely exists in German (at least in modern German). While Polish has no articles, it does have three genders (unless one categorizes masculine virile animate vs. inanimate as separate genders!) and the endings are not always an indication of the noun's gender if a learner just glances at it.

On the other hand, German has eight different plural markers, including zero-marker for a noun with no change:-)

Language / Slavic languages words similarities with Polish [240]

....and then there's "gospodin" = "Mr." and "gospozha" = "Mrs." or "Ms" in Russian. I've been told however that this is rare nowadays. Russians used to be addressed as "Garazhin!" or "Citizen", but today, just the patronymics/matronymics will suffice!

Some chap named Daniel Bunic from Prague, I think, did a thesis (in German!) on exactly this most fascinating linguistic area. It's available on line:-)

Language / Why is the Polish language so difficult? [309]

German is often a "challenge" for foreigners (including myself off and on, and I grew up practically bi-lingual!), not so, so much owing to its intricate morphology, i.e. inflections etc., but principally, its word order combined with often labyrinthine sentence length, especially in formal, academic language:-)

Polish has what has been termed, even by certain Poles, a "quirky" counting system, especially after the number "five". True enough. German on the other hand can confound many a non-native, learner as well as advanced user, by the mere placement of certain particle words.

Polish frequently reveals irregularities of conjugation in addition to an involved aspectual system which can be rough going at the start, e.g. the transition from a basic, ordinary verb such as "ciąć" (cut): tnę, tniesz, tnie etc..., not to mention the prefixed perfective forms too.

Another thing I've learned about Polish, compared with German for example, is that it's spelling often is based on the word stem, that is, on which letter the root ends. Knowing the"hard" as opposed to "soft" stems in a fair number of Slavic languages determines the spelling, even the gender, of a noun in certain cases. For all words though, this seems to be true.

Language / Interesting Polish tongue twister. [69]

Never as simple to transcribe from memory, Looker:-)

Language / Interesting Polish tongue twister. [69]

W Szczebrzymie chrząść brzmi w tcicinie - J. Bzechwa

Language / Slavic languages words similarities with Polish [240]

Of the two languages, Russian on the one hand, has borrowed comparatively less from, say, Latin, in contrast with Polish(..which is in no wise to initimate that Russians hasn't also borrowed plenty!), preferring to use more of her own native "Slavic" roots, cf. Polish "literatura" vs. Russian "slovonictvo", or some such construction:-)

Russian aspects are almost identical with Polish, as near as I can tell.

Language / Slavic languages words similarities with Polish [240]

...Anna, Annuszka, Annusia.... plus Polish has that Vocative case, no longer extant in modern Russian, I'm told:-)

Suckered into the same trap again, I fearLOL

"Anna" "Anno", Anniuszka!" "Anniusia"....

It's late and I'm getting sloppy (but still no excuse!)

I recently learned that Russian "karadash" is derived from Turkish. Polish "Ołówek" is probably pure Slavic?
lol

Language / Slavic languages words similarities with Polish [240]

Most enlightening, Vlad! Many thanks:-)

I have noticed a similarity between Polish and Russian diminutives, however. Seems the Poles though also go slightly overboard on the subject of intimacy, e.g. Małgorzata < Małgosia < Gosia/Gosiu! < Gocha/Gochu! etc..

Language / Slavic languages words similarities with Polish [240]

Vlad, could "kotyczka" be Russian as well, or only Polish?

Language / Slavic languages words similarities with Polish [240]

Indeed it is. "Wiele"> "viel(e)". Right on the money!

Language / Slavic languages words similarities with Polish [240]

You're right, Vlad! However, English also knows the more latinate "autumn" (cf. Italian "autuno"), but "fall" surely refers to the falling of leaves (as does the Polish). Interestingly certain Germanic tongues emphasize the cognate 'calque' for "harvest", e.g. German "der Herbst", Dutch "de herfst", Swedish "hoest" etc...

Check out the Czech names for the months.

Language / Slavic languages words similarities with Polish [240]

Wonder still if the word for ash is related to "jeśień", the word for "autumn"/"fall".

Language / Slavic languages words similarities with Polish [240]

Vlad, only watch out for "łaska" vs. "laska"!! The former means "walking stick". A single slip of a key stroke can either create a different word, and/or type a different word with a wholly different meaning:-)) Cf. "łaski" (walking sticks) and "łąski" (narrow)...

Typo! I "meant" "laska" in Polish.