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Posts by Ironside  

Joined: 26 Feb 2009 / Male ♂
Warnings: 1 - A
Last Post: 4 hrs ago
Threads: Total: 53 / Live: 27 / Archived: 26
Posts: Total: 13888 / Live: 7277 / Archived: 6611
From: The Royal Palace of Warsaw
Speaks Polish?: Better than most

Displayed posts: 7304 / page 188 of 244
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Ironside   
19 Jul 2016
Life / Being a Jew in modern-day Poland; Israeli Jew who is of Polish descent [279]

Were the busloads of Jewish visitors on an escorted or private excursion, then I believe you.

You have a very specific vision of the Jewish in Poland. Look I understand that war and all colored it that way but if you look at the Jewish community in Poland in the 30'. They're not worse off that Jewish in the USA at the time and much better than in few other countries west of Poland. They have full citizenship and rights. they have been protected by the law. They have had their own organizations, parties and all and sundry, could cultivate their culture and religion without any state imposed barriers, could have study on Polish universities, a privilege granted to them in the early 60' in the USA.

Whatever happened during the war has nothing to do with general attitude of the Polish people. Cut the crap!

Jews returning to their parents' villages during the late '80's, early '90's,

what they were looking for? Heartily welcome? People ought to be suspicious by then and after 40 years of soviet occupation nobody would have time for some spoiled westerners coming from the differed world.

Most people would have seen a Jew only on TV.

I would say that people in the early 90' were interested in the past and in the past shared with Jews to. However Defamation league and all those various attack mainly from the American Jews on Poles and their history changed that warm, welcoming and open attitude into - WTF? What are they going say about Poles again? If you hate us so much - F!OFF!
Ironside   
19 Jun 2016
Study / Studying in Poznan for an Arab student. [25]

The real issue is that some people might take you for a Muslim but even that just common sense should suffice to avoid problems.
Ironside   
4 Jun 2016
Genealogy / The typical Polish look, or all Eastern Europeans [676]

I'm talking

Son, what ethnicity is USA>? Is there one? Poland was like USA for more than half of her history. Meaning that on elements of Tatars, Armenians, Germans, Dutch, French, Italian, Gypsy, Jewish, including all nearby Slavic components have the right to be in your DNA and your ancestors could rightly and proudly call themselves Poles.

There is no 'typical: Polish look alas some would point out that bird-like (eagle like) noses, prominent cheekbones blue eyes and brown hair plus few others details are just that mythical 'Polish look' - personally I don't think such a thing exist.

Not to mention that the language you speak shape your features as different set of muscles are used for different languages.
If your ancestors are Polish then look Polish - what is the problem?
Ironside   
21 May 2016
News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]

The title of clown has already been assigned.

Don't be jealous #Douglass, nobody is going to take away your title of the biggest clown on PF.

"Nationalist clown

Douglass learn Polish and learn something about Polish history and culture then and only then you can make comment that would have a chance to reflect Poland's realities somewhat.

Right now you are only making a fool out of yourself by this kind of wildly off mark slogans. Either you are a radical rabid leftie rabble or you known nothing.

To unsuspected reader, I'm not saying all that because I'm somehow connected to PiS and/or Kaczynski but because being that 'nationalistic' label is being repeated by the press, clowns in EC and former president of the USA do not reflect reality in the sightless.
Ironside   
20 May 2016
News / New European Council's report: "Poland oasis of racism, xenophobia and homophobia" ... [343]

It does if it's purely on the colour of your skin and what you look like.

No it doesn't. I think that is the crux of the matter. You are so used to the fact that having a different color skin should grant a special treatment that you automatically think - racism- when that is not granted.

I dare say that it would be specifically stresses in the article if he was the only person with a different skin coloring. To my mind he was singled out by the bouncers due to his turban.

According to the law he was perfectly within his rights to stop that person from entering premises. However he wasn't nice about it - which is a pretty standard as far as I know amongst bouncers and security people in Poland.

He hasn't been particularly nasty to him just because he was a Shih but he was nasty as matter of course, as he would to any other person he would deem to stop from entering those premises.

The fact that he singled turbaned person out - it doesn't necessary is a nice thing - but it is a very human thing to do, especially with all those issues on the news.

I don't perceive it as a big deal, not nice to that Shih personal that without the doubt but hell he is the one talking, expecting all people to know what Shih is and how his turban differs from Muslims. That is an arrogant assumption. If he persist on wearing that turban everywhere he goes he should understand that there are sometimes consequences to be recon with. Not all the people are mild, tree hugging open minded goodies.

and wearing of a turban is going to be seen as racist like it or not.

Fair enough, if that the way you want to see it. After all it is likely as some people don't like Muslims.

Still, no law was broken.

Racism shouldn't be condoned at all as far as I'm concerned.

Geez, that dude was wearing a turban in a country that haven't seen anything like that for centuries. He was stopped from entering premises due to the whim of some bouncer with inflated ego, not as a matter of the club policy.

That is a snub, but hardly a crime. Even if we agree that was a racism as interpreted today, that is hardly a call for the law to be somehow changed. What would that accomplish?

Try telling those victims who have been attacked, that racism isn't a problem in Poland.

Yes, increase from 0.001 to 0,01. If there are real problems that would warranty a new law I'm sure many people will support it. The time isn't now.

Are you saying that because I am not Polish or live in the country, I shouldn't have an opinion on things that don't directly concern me?

You can of course have and express your opinion but I would think that you would take a view of somebody that is a native of the country over what you think should that be done.

I can't see the point in setting up organizations if there is no need whatsoever, regardless of who is in power, what would be the point?

Appeasing their political friends in a way that would suite their ideological bias.

Well, it would be a start!!

Nah, that would lead to the policy treating each non white with kids gloves while at the same time keep mistreating Poles. They need a fundamental change.
Ironside   
19 May 2016
UK, Ireland / Any Polish Muslims in London? [30]

are 3 Polish people's revert in Poland everyday

Really? I doubt that ...but these that do should be deported to Saudi Arabia or those regions.
Ironside   
18 May 2016
News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]

politicians far more distinguished and respected than him

More respected than him? You mean to say that are loved by the biased media and used to have better press than him. In fact he was a politician against whom organized hate camping were lunched with downright lies, assassination of character on a daily basis and for years.

They responded with this latter to his summary of the state he found Polish Armed Forces and for which they share joint responsibility. No wonder they try to proceed they backside by writing this pathetic letter but facts are always specking louder than even the most eloquent letter or intricate lies.

As for distinguished, he is one of the veterans of the anti-commie regime struggle, there are indeed few people with a record as distinguished as him. That fact about him is constantly overlooked whereas other figure Michink is constantly prized like some kind of lone hero.

I question that respected part, nowadays respected doesn't cut it. Really a public figure is respected by most. He has more supporters that all those six prissy pansies that signed that letter combined.

More an unofficial motto for football hooligans and assorted extreme-right misfits.

You seems to be brushing elbows with the most unrepresentative crowd in Poland. To be able to claim something like that you must be absolutely detached from what is a main stream of Polish culture and traction.

That's a bullsh!t answer

Well, if immigrants to Poland are such a D-heads like you that I think he has raised a legitimate doubt who should be allowed to came to Poland. You have nothing but disrespect and contempt for the country's culture and tradition...
Ironside   
17 May 2016
News / New European Council's report: "Poland oasis of racism, xenophobia and homophobia" ... [343]

I don't think that he was expecting to be given privileges or special treatment over a Pole,

OK, for the record a Pole in his stead would have been told to get lost by the police. Simple.

So he should have known

Chemikiem I'm translating for you what that police officer said - I don't necessary agree with him. OK?

Yes he was, and the club tried to say that he was denied entry on the grounds that the club was full.

Doesn't it matter on what ground he was refused an entry? It wasn't against the law. So what crime has been committed and by whom?

Are you not automatically siding with that Shih?
Let take a step back here. I know why I have found that story as related by the press believable to a degree. You on the other hand took it all on faith just because he belongs to a swarthy, turban wearing minority in Europe. Am I right?

Are you saying that regardless of the circumstances of a person being refused entry, the police would automatically side with the bouncer, no questions asked?

Bouncers in Poland have the right to deny an entry to a club to anyone. So in that case while Shih has been arguing, questioning that decision, violence used by the bouncer could be seen (I don't know what the law say about it) as acting perfectly within his rights. Using as much force as is necessary to deal with a person who doesn't take NO for an answer.

Clearly, in this case, even the club thought the bouncer was out of order as the security services the bouncer was a part of, were terminated.

The club clearly wants to attract foreigners with money ( and hence I know that Shih didn't lie) so clearly he has been poorly trained D-head guarding the door. Most likely from a security company with no much standing, which had been hired only because they're providing cheap services.

but Poland has acknowledged there is a problem with racism within the country,

What country has no problems with this or that? I don't see that racism is a problem in Poland, anti-social attitude and behavior that is a real problem.

The Polish police have created a Polish platform against hatred, and the last government set up the anti-discrimination council

Come on Chemikiem you have no real understanding of the issue involved and I don't think this is the right thread to talk about it. I say that all this doesn't mean much and let's leave it at that.

One has to ask if enough is being done, given the attitudes of the police.

Why? Why would you concern yourself with a foreign country? A country in which you clearly need to dig long and hard to find any occurrence that can be interpreted as racist and almost none in the serious crime category.

Would that be an ideological bias?

In Białystok, local police failed to investigate a series of physical assaults

I know very little about that but I'm going to find out more. I really don't know what it is all about.
A sloppy police work.

wave of hate crimes had taken place, painting some of the perpetrators instead as drunken soccer hooligans acting alone."

Could be a very well the case - why not?

According to the figures provided by the Polish police

Somehow I'm skeptical about that. That illegal immigrants show across Europe coupled with terrorist attacks that could rise people tempers that I agree with but still....

I already listed 2 organisations that had been set up in Poland by Polish authorities

If you mean PO they most likely were trying to suck up to their friends in Europe and that is the only reason those organizations were created.

I sincerely hope it doesn't but you can't ignore people being attacked because of who they are.

People always have been attacked for who they are, how they look like, what they are doing, where they are.
There is nothing new in this. The point is that all crimes should be treated seriously without creating special categories of a crime in the law unless there is an overriding imperative that compels you to create those special laws.

I'm absolutely certain that Poland hasn't reached that stage that would deem necessary to do it.

but in that Białystok case for example, only when attacks culminated in arson, did the police do anything.

I told you that I don't think much about Polish police professionalism that was an euphemism, I think that they suck big time! New laws wouldn't improve their performance.

I really didn't notice anything that bad Iron!

My point being that if that bothers you I'll correct it.

but here is the article.

He is alluding to all those demonstrations against Poland being forced to take in a quota of these illegal immigrants. Speeches made on those demonstrations or on TV and such.

That has nothing to do with racial tension escalating but with the politics. He is making a political stance as he is supporting PO and those forces that lost in the last election.

He is trying to paint those patriotic (nationalistic) organization as racist, xenophobic and whatnot and to paint the current government PiS with the same brush in the eyes of the foreign viewer.

All the best.
Ironside   
17 May 2016
Off-Topic / Eurovision - Today I will be ashamed to be Polish [583]

You are guessing to be exact. You can risk a guess that millions of Poles around Europe actually are a real factor that plays its role in influencing results of the phone vote! However you don't know how big a factor those votes actually are.

I mean I don't really care but don't say that you know if you only guess. Also Douglass's folly tells him that those Poles abroad who bothered to vote on that Polish song are nationalistic minded ones. What next? Can you tell they shoe number as well?
Ironside   
17 May 2016
News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]

And when six former defence ministers sign an open letter

Oh? another fallacy. ~What does it matter dozen or a score?
Ironside   
17 May 2016
Off-Topic / Eurovision - Today I will be ashamed to be Polish [583]

there was a big push here to encourage people living abroad to vote, printing the numbers to vote in various countries, asking people to remind their friends and relatives abroad, etc.

I wouldn't call that a conclusive proof. You still don't know how successful that trend was, and how many people in a given country called and who that relates to the Poles living aboard. There are many questions that would have needed to be addressed before you would have been able to give a reliable answer.

So far it just a guess or theory.
However I couldn't care less about Eurovision show or that showman from Poland, so deep is my desinteressement that I don't even know what place European wisdom granted to him.

People started to write a lot of BS on this thread and I just looked up who won. Tell you something, there is potential in that tripe if you are a betting man, damn I could have bet on that Ukrainian song. Too late now.
Ironside   
16 May 2016
News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]

Certainly, but as reported in the linked story the priest acts with no detectable compassion or Christian (or human!) feelings. A very poor example, he sets.

Thank you for your concern. I think you should rise that issue in your parish and maybe talk it over with your priest. I wasn't aware that you are so deeply religious, active and caring Catholic. People like you're needed!

a whole generation who feel hostile to the church

Hmm what that sound? Wait is something dripping on a flat surface? jon are you salivating on you keyboard?
Ironside   
16 May 2016
News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]

fact practising a faith much darker and older....

A devil worshipers bauuhahaha !

Father "Director" as you call him also claimed to be collecting money to "save the shipyards", but then the money was spent on other things instead

Stop bringing all the time that read herring will you? If you think that there was a crime you should notify authorities.

this monk clearly does lie,

Are you saying that Rydzk lie about that collected money or that he has conned people? Is that what you a saying Harry?

Sick and perverted is just the right word.

Why? If that is the truth and I have no reason to believe in the validity of that info than there could be some reason that would explain his behavior.

A Catholic priest can decide who is and who is not buried in a Catholic cemetery

Yes, there is that. Unfortunately some people in Poland take that privilege for granted.
Ironside   
15 May 2016
Off-Topic / Eurovision - Today I will be ashamed to be Polish [583]

Poland got 150 odd votes from televotes. All of them from Poles ringing repeatedly obviously

Do you have some evidence to back up that theory of yours? What your mother told you about jumping to conclusions?

10 points from the UK televote, for instance ;)

Gossiping like washerwomen tsk tsk
Ironside   
15 May 2016
News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]

From some obscure KOD's site on the internet founded by the Russian or German money that is spreading lies, disinformation and hate!
Ironside   
15 May 2016
History / Current Polish-Russian relations.. What do the Poles think? [60]

The Polish minority isn't repressed anyway, and most young Poles aren't infected with the idiotic nationalism of the elders.

Sure they are!

Sure, if Poland wants to be invaded by NATO and risk having Russia take over parts of Poland during the chaos of such an intervention.

I have been sarcastic, maybe due to your plebian DNA you don't get sarcasm?
Ironside   
15 May 2016
History / Current Polish-Russian relations.. What do the Poles think? [60]

what economical and cultural and enlighten thingies Poland and US offered to Iraq after illegal and criminal invasion.or any country nato invaded.

Those countries were ruled in authoritarian tyrannical manner not due to consensus of the majority but due to the oppression by the minority. I'm not saying that chaos that came with NATO/USA intervention is better but if you're looking for justification you can always find one.

russia at least can say,it is defending its crutial interest and security threats and russian people(in case of ukraine)

Maybe Poland should follow their suit and rise in defense of the oppressed Polish minority in Lithuania?
Ironside   
15 May 2016
Off-Topic / Eurovision - Today I will be ashamed to be Polish [583]

But you had that laughable Sopot festival for years, so you actually enjoy, and analyse, the worst of pop music:)))

Is that show still about and kicking? It is crappy as well. I don't know if someone is actually watching it?

The Swedes get the joke

Come on Douglass there is no shame in having a plebian taste palate. No need for you to justify yourself, on the contrary - good for you - enjoy.
Ironside   
15 May 2016
News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]

Poland would be to form EE-central european union

Not necessary a union but similar kind of united in a one block countries that share simpler challenges and interests.

Hungary, Czech, Slovakia,and Belarus Ukraine

I would question Ukrainian participation for some or other reasons.

What about Romania, Bulgaria, Slovenia and Croatia, and OK -- for Crow's benefit -- Serbia

Those countries would need to volunteer their interest in such a endeavor.
Myself I don't exclude any country of the region from participation bar Ukraine and Lithuania. ( That Germany couldn't be a part of it that goes without saying.)
Ironside   
15 May 2016
News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]

openly believe that women should be kept in the kitchen, preferably on a chain.

Well, that is nothing I believe you should be kept in the cellar, definitely on a chain.

as a glass ceiling for women?

Gees and you should be having cold showers and electric shocks six time a day until you would get better.
Ironside   
15 May 2016
History / Current Polish-Russian relations.. What do the Poles think? [60]

I personally think that Poland and Russia ought to really reconcile

You are entitled to your opinion but as a matter of fact that opinion doesn't translate into reality.
In fact Russia doesn't have anything substantial to offer and peruse policies of their predecessors.

and whats unusual or wrong for leader of country wanting to make his country more influential?is that makes Russia "imperialistic monster".lol

If a said country tramples on Poland's toes in the process that is wrong. If at the same time such a country has nothing to offer in a terms of cultural or economical advancement but stick to that old Assyrian style of domination such outdated and backwoods ideas make to be such a country 'an imperialistic monster'.
Ironside   
15 May 2016
Off-Topic / Eurovision - Today I will be ashamed to be Polish [583]

Ironside - you Poles don't get it. It is kitsch party fun vs political shenanighans. Superb fun all round. Terrible music, terrible production

Sure I don't get it so it must be down to my DNA. I have a better explanation some people have a refined taste and some are just a plebs at heart.

Not for me your plebeian kicks. :)

Like the nationalist Poles who repeatedly rung in to vote for Poland?

Must be your fellow plebeians, you should be more simpatico to them.

Exactly! Anyone that doesn't see it for what it is - a perfect excuse to spend an evening laughing at the worst of what Europe has to offer really needs a sense of humour transplant.

Alternatively you could read something to broaden your plebian horizon.

I know an "army" of Polish nationalists

A very good point - they don't give a flying copulation about that diversion that our 'funny friends' on PF find so amusing.
Ironside   
15 May 2016
News / New European Council's report: "Poland oasis of racism, xenophobia and homophobia" ... [343]

You see it as that the police were giving him advice - he couldn't expect to be treated in Poland the same as he would in his own country.

Hmm... I would say that no one should expect to be given privileges in a foreign country over a local population.
Those 'rights' and those laws that he enjoying in his own country created a certain public space for him to what he is used to, and if in a foreign country expected to be given the same public leeway so to speak is an error. Demanding it is just not on, at least to my mind.

That's like saying it's his fault for being attacked because with brown skin, he should have known better than to come to Poland.

Chemikiem I'll make my points (yes, I do have a point to make or two:) just bear with me) after I'll address your points.

I disagree it is as saying - this is not your country, you should tune yourselves better to its ways.
Still, as I have stated repeatedly it is very unprofessional, they shouldn't have said it to him, that is clear and beside the point.

Reading into it something else than poor standards of the police in Poland is a simply misunderstanding of the circumstances and issues involved and is a kind of a cultural prejudice we are all oft guilty off.

Those policemen havening no understanding how that trifle issue (for them) of someone coming to blows with a bouncer (because I'm sure it wasn't first or the last time when someone had some alteration with bouncers) will be viewed abroad, said what they said meaning well.

I agree to an extent, especially outside of cities, but even so, that is no justification for the treatment that Sikh received.

You see but that bouncer was perfectly within his rights to deny him the entry. You might not like it nor you need to but that is a fact that is overlooked by the press.

According to the law saying you are not going in buster - is perfectly legitimate. Hence that Shih remonstrating with that bouncer put himself into ambiguous position in the eyes of the law in Poland. If a Pole would be in his place he wouldn't have a slim chance to win in court against that bouncer unless he would have sustained serious injuries!

Well when the friends you are with have all been admitted to the club, and you are stopped and denied entry, the usual course of action would be to ask why.

No, I meant what he was complain about to the police? As you see being bared from entry is not against the law.

It has in all countries Iron, and I can understand this, people are scared, but it's not acceptable that anyone with dark skin should be targeted because they look different

Chemikiem I'm with you on that point as I have made it clear from the start. I only object to the ways that case has been misreported and misread in the press. Also I think that each country should devise such solutions and laws to address those issues as they seem fit and proper rather follow blindly ways of the others.

are far less racially motivated assaults than in other countries, but they are increasing, that is the problem

Are they increasing? I don't know, after all if they increased that would be only after Germany and then EU got that idea to send those illegal immigrants to Europe to all countries - what did they expect?

Solution - solve that problem and those assault flamed by the news will decrease.

I do get the impression that you don't want to hear a bad word said about how things are conducted in Poland

1. Chemikiem - not at all, as I have written repeatedly here I disagree with the way that case has been misrepresented that is all.
2. I said that the police is Poland is not very professional and they fail in properly response to the complain made by the Shih stems from the fact that they couldn't be bothered with the paper work involved that would be needed if they would have officially reported that incident rather than from their alleged 'racism'.

3. Excuse me Chemikiem but people in Poland know better without special laws and stuff.
4. I think that there is no need for the special 'racial' laws in Poland and if ever that need arise then those issues can be addressed by Poland on her own - no need for helpful hands and all that, thank you!.

but Poland isn't perfect,

Geez Chemikiem I never claimed that Poland is perfect. Hardly, if you would read closely what I have been writing here you would have known that I'm extremely critical about Poland to the point that I said that all that alleged 'elite' in Poland are just a scum and they need to be replaced and Poland needs to be make anew as a workable country that is not so hostile to its own people.

Majority of voters in Poland agree with me hence PiS won an election with the promises of the major change - as they put it a good change!

You can't sweep racist crimes under the carpet and hope they will disappear.

Sorry, an assault is assault there no need to debate about that, all assaults and crimes should be and are punishable by the law and no one says any different. Saying that there is not need at least in Poland for a all new category of a racist crime to be introduced to the Polish legal system that at any rate need to be fixed it to work at all.

Poland ends up being forced to take in refugees.

That would end up with Poland's exit from the EU. That is a crazy idea, I wonder why none can see that?

I would imagine this data would have to have been documented from reports. If he's not able to back it up, that's going to come back to haunt him.

I honestly don't know Chemikiem, so I can't say. However I wouldn't be surprised if he would somehow pulled the data from his backside, wouldn't be the first!

On what basis?

On a basis of him being a real D!

By the way Chemikiem I'm sorry for misspellings and grammatical mistakes I'm making and I know that it makes reading less pleasant but honestly I would have to read it again and correct all the errors- and I can't be bothered. I'm really Sorry, hope you'll not hold it against me!

All the best
Ironside   
14 May 2016
News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]

I really wonder about you sometimes Ironside

Save yourself a bother.

Poland has an independent judiciary

Poland has a crappy, shaky and corrupted system and that need to be fix better late than never.

you seem to regard it as something that should be under the control of governments.

Ah because there is out there system that is not depended on a government one way or the other.

How would having judges under political control be a change for the better?

Get rid of the system transferred from PRL and from people that have been in that system for years, new people, new blood in highly inefficient system is an improvement at least first and necessary step.

I doubt though PiS have balls to see it through.

It seems to me that you've got a longing for the pre-1989 system.

Sonny, that is pre-1989 system in different environment.

Except they aren't finished in the slightest.

OH yes they're and a big time too!

The PRL

run along boy and go play some Legos or rpg! Grownups are talking.
Ironside   
14 May 2016
Off-Topic / Eurovision - Today I will be ashamed to be Polish [583]

but the guy is remarkably good looking for a Pole

Excuse me? Have you seen your mug lately in the looking glass?

That Eurovision BS is just a big fat trick played on people....but it ain't funny this is just a pure crap. Who is the winner in the crap contests? The biggest pile of crap ta da !
Ironside   
14 May 2016
News / Poland's post-election political scene [4080]

why Ziobro is planning to reform the court system

Well I do hope he'll get all of them useless muppets out on their ears!

with PiS judges

Still that would be a change for a better. A change that Poles voted for.
PO, GW and that Petru cretin are finished but it seems they don't realize that truth as yet.
Ironside   
14 May 2016
News / New European Council's report: "Poland oasis of racism, xenophobia and homophobia" ... [343]

So, Serbia have good relations with Russia and moving closer and closer to countries that are members of Visegrad Group, which is in fact embryo of Intermarium.

Crow get into your head that Russia as is now and in the foreseeable future will not support any kind of concept that would or could constitute a base for creating Intermarium. They would readily abort such an embryo than not. The only concept Russia would embrace would be a shell of Intermanrum but in fact Russian dominium, as it used to be for Soviet Union.

You seemingly are unable to grasp what that Intermarium concept is all about but rest easy that Russians are not that slow.

back on topic please

I was joking Iron, well half anyway ;)

I know Chemikiem but there seems to be myth spread amongst folk on PF that I'm somehow aggressive and nasty towards posters here. So I used this opportunity to explain to some of them why they ended feeling my boot kicking their backside. Also I cannot abide fools, it simple stupid people full of themselves get my goat.

I suppose that that nerdy part of my brain kicked in with this need to explain things. :)

Apparently, it wasn't his first trip to Poland, so presumably he hadn't had a problem before and therefore didn't expect any trouble this time.

Let focus in what is important here Chemikiem. That Shih case is not so clearly cut and dry and as this case has been presented by the press.

First of all

The police officers did tell me

police officers in Poland are not required as far as I know to communicate in English, so I don't know in what language they have communicated with the guy.

If that policeman was able to speak some English or someone from bystanders impromptu translated to him they couldn't have a good reliable standard of English. I'm certain what he says they have said to him is not a good and reliable representation of what actually was said to him.

So, once more much has been lost in the translation.

"The police officers did tell me that white and brown people in Poland are different,"

Let me 'translate' it for you - people in Poland are not used to people of different races and to interact with them.

They also told me that I should have thought about the attacks committed in Paris before I chose to come to Poland.

-Especially after those attacks in Paris, that created anti-Muslim feelings (hey you got turban on - are you for real?)-

People are angry, they said - aggression towards you is to be expected."

- Shyt happens.-
(Come on you are a big boy, nothing actually happened to you, live and learn.)
As I said not very professional but what he was exactly complaining about? That he was denied entry? That is a private establishment and they have the right to deny an entrée to anyone they choose.

Assault? I'm sure that bouncer could have produced witnesses to state that that Shih was tying to forcibly enter that joint.
In fact there were little they could have done and they just saved themselves lots of paperwork.
Thing is legally there was little that could have done to that bouncer unless Shih wanted to spend his time and money to peruse legal means and sue him.

All that ruckus is due to the fact that Britain is used to treat any assault on a colored and minority people like an assault on a stability of a state itself. On the one hand there is a numbers ethical and racial minorities in the uk on the other people have been killed only due to their skin color.

Poland doesn't have those problems. He was in Poland before and nothing had happened even though he is walking about with his characteristic turban, hell even in the USA one or other Shih found himself on a receiving end of anti-Muslim tirade.

Nobody has been killed due to skin color in Poland. Poland is a relatively save country, safer than UK and I say it again, he wasn't assaulted per se, he just walked into a situation he totally misread. Happens.

I guess I disagree with the way that case has been told because its misinterpreting the truth.

Correct me if I'm wrong but surely the role of the police is to protect and serve the public? I know, this is Poland and not the UK, but I thought similar principles would apply.

Let me put it this way - regardless of what is right and what is wrong------------------------------------ and the ways things are working( or not) in practice we are not here to debate shortages or lack of the police or other institutions-------------- in Poland.

We are here (at least I know I'm ) for a very simple reason - I disagree with the way that case had been presented.

You know the score, and yes, the only thing he was guilty of was not knowing how things are in Poland, but being a foreigner how could he?

Chemikiem some things are universal, you might not get it as a woman but for a man signs should be clear enough to see, unless he was intoxicated, or country that his status (protected minority) in the uk would apply in Poland. Maybe he is just a gullible dude who lost his way in a foreign country, we won't know for sure.

In an ideal world maybe.

I'm certain that is the only way plus gun ownership and a capital punishment, plus flogging for unruly boys and gender segregation in schools. No state health service or benefits. Well, I'm getting ahead of myself. Lets go back to the topic at hand.

Again I am looking at this from the perspective of someone born in the UK, and yes it is different because the UK is very multicultural in comparison to Poland, and there is far more racially motivated crime in my country

Indeed and I'm saying that there is no need for such laws in Poland in the foreseeable future. What would be the point? Different problems equal different solutions.

the Human Rights Ombudsman for Poland points out,

That dude is a useless douchebag, he has said that unfortunately those patriotic organizations are abiding the law and there is nothing that can be done to disband them. Whose Human Rights he is ombudsman for? Are patriots not human in his eyes, those kind of cretins get my goat!

So all this alleged data he is presenting I wouldn't trust further than I could spit.

If beatings like this are occurring more often than beatings for wearing the wrong hat

I highly doubt that is the case. However working courts, the police that is doing its job properly instead of focusing on opposition that would be a real improvement for law and order in Poland.

Hence the change is needed and PiS promised such a change and voters vote to power, let see what they are gonna do.
Properly working legal system and the police should be enough improvement for now.
Remember that those opposed to them are those who will say anything to get support but who will do very little if anything and who are mainly shady looses. So fi they seems to talk you talk they'll not deliver.

Crimes like this need to be nipped in the bud before they become commonplace.

Indeed premeditated attacks be it on a private property be it on people should be met with a rapid and severe response, either by the armed about-to-be-victim or/and by the state.

All the best.
:)
Ironside   
12 May 2016
News / New European Council's report: "Poland oasis of racism, xenophobia and homophobia" ... [343]

Give it time Iron, I'm sure that eventually you'll label me as either a 'hysterical female', or a 'libtard' ;)

Well, IF you WOULD start labeling people,IF instead of argument you would use slogans, IF you would get hysterical only because I would point out that your argument is illogical, If you would call me a Nazi or a brown shirt, IF you would talk to me down......

Then and only then I most certainly would call you those names and then some more .....:)
If you on the other hand you'll continue to debate as you do, there is no chance in hell that I would treat you otherwise than with respect and courtesy as good manners dictate.

You might well be right, but would he have been arrested even if the victim had been bleeding? Or if he had sustained more severe injuries? Makes you wonder.

As I said I don't think highly about professionalism of the police in Poland (there is a lot to improve) but I think that they would have reacted differently if he had sustained severe injuries.

I think I need to add it - that would be the same if he was a Pole.

What about witnesses, people stopped to help him, would they not have been called to give evidence at a trial? Or am I asking a stupid question here?

You see we don't know the real circumstances of that case. We only know a one side of the story and that story altered by a journalist I'm sure.

In my understating he had a very slim change of getting the police involved, because those brawls in front of the bars, pubs, nigh clubs and whatnot are just not given a proper attention by the police, especially if a customer, a patron is accusing security guys of those establishments. Unless there are really serious injuries, they just ignore it.

Possible those people could be called as the witnesses (maybe they wouldn't want to be involved) but as far as I understand he called the police much latter or just went to the police station. You see we don't know much details.

He simply asked why he wasn't allowed in when all his friends had been admitted entry

That is what I don't understand, that doesn't make sense to me, his friends went ahead and at least one of them was Polish I gather. He should have known that Shih in Poland is an entity unknown, and that wearing that turban could cause problems for him with a bouncer, why his friends didn't wait for him, or translate for him - seems fishy to me, maybe those people weren't his real friends.

I'm afraid I'm guilty of expecting the same treatment he would have received in the UK.

This is Poland! :)
Generally, state institutions are hostile towards its citizens, and you don't call them unless you have no choice and they are not used to react to some alteration if there is not severe injuries. People expect help from their friend and immediate family, nobody else, certainly not from the police or courts.

Come on Iron, how did he play the race card?

By expecting the same treatment he was used to in the UK? No? Well, I mean to say that he could have walked away given the fact that that bouncer acted in a hostile manner. I don't know, I know that in his place I would have either walk way or ready myself for a brawl. He didn't read that situation correctly - still not his fault but those friends of his....

You know this, because you've had experience in Polish nightclubs presumably,

Not only Polish, in some part of the world they not only kick you out but strip you form all your belongings. Anyway, I have been the last time in the night club a decade ago. So, I'm not an expert but I know that security personal in Poland is not well trained or selected.

People like that shouldn't be employed as doormen,

Ditto!

If people are assaulted based on the colour of their skin, you're saying that those people are somehow privileged

I'm saying that regardless of the reason for an assault the law should treat each assault in the same way.

They are victims of assault because someone doesn't like the colour of their skin.
Like it or not, it is different.

For a philosopher! For the law there is not difference (or shouldn't be) if someone has been attacked because of the color of his skin or because he was wearing a hat.

What matters is that someone was assaulted for no justifiable reason.

Exactly, and how long will it be before some Greek person or Spaniard is attacked, because they too, look a bit different.

Well, short of hanging them by their scummy necks on the spot there is no much you can do about it. Opinion that says that a new laws will eliminate a certain kind of a crime or anti-social behavior is just an illusion.

On the other hand if that dude on the train had a gun he could have defend himself. Yes, an unrestricted access to gun ownership is the only feasible solution to that particular problem.

Come on, what hat were you wearing?

Oh that was long time ago in a certain area with a certain reputation, just a regular albeit characteristic hat.

On the contrary Iron, he said " 'what did you expect when you come to Krakow after the Paris attacks. Brown people and white people are treated differently here to in the UK'.

Well, his English wasn't obviously good and between what he said and what he meant and what that Shih understood is a big sea of we don't know - that leave us some space for an educated guess.

My guess is - 'hey what did you expect coming with a turban to Poland looking like people imagine an Arab look, after all those acts of terror people think that all Arabs are terrorists or near enough? Poland is not UK where populace is used to your strange customs and different look'.

Not very professional but that what I would expect a Polish policeman to say. It is impossible for me to imagine that he would say, 'hey Poland is a country for white people and you brown people are coming here on your own risk and peril'. In fact I don't see it at all. Lost in translation obviously.

Anyone who happens to look a bit different Iron.

Buy a gun and you can look like Obama's lookalike and be able to defend yourself.

Sorry, but destruction of property fares a lot lower on my list than physical assaults.

I thought that you from all people would like to look behind surface to search for people's INTENT! I find their intent and mindset much more chilling and disturbing (malicious) than in those other two cases. Given the fact those people are very young what else they'll come up with in the future? I just hope they'll wise up.

All the best!