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Conflicting views about life in Poland?


cheetah 1 | -
24 Nov 2013  #1
Dear,,,,,

I would like to introduce myself as newbie in this forum , actually what made me add thread down here is Polish people !!

well I am the one who have planned to move to Poland to learn polish language and then start working as I have got a lot of good offers to work at some good companies as IT engineer , also I noticed that a lot of polish people don't like Poland and every time I chat with Polish person he/she keep complaining that life in Poland is ****** and bad it's not good and a lot of polish people left the country and moved to other countries around Europe , my question is WHY ? IS THIS TRUE ? meanwhile I check about the economy of Poland all I can see is growing country and it has fast growth !!!! I don't understand , poles keep saying bad things about the country like poorness , WHY ? IS THIS REAL ? Most poles that I chat with are sad and depressed of being in this country , meanwhile I can see that there are a lot of countries that have lower life standard and ****** social life than Poland is like middle east !! I don't understand !! Poland is member of European Union since long time

and all I know it keeps growing especially in technology field !! I have noticed that people keep looking to live in expensive countries like west and they think it's the best !! at the same time I met with someone from LONDON who said London is ****** up means done ! it's not good anymore moving downward , it's confusing me too much , it's like conflict , why most people when they hear that I am moving to Poland they keep saying bad things (poor,******,bad life) or even laughing at me , all I know that polish people are welcoming people , I don't understand !!

please this topic is only for serious answers at the same time no offense to anybody

thank you for giving me your time , waiting for real answers .
pierogi2000 4 | 229
24 Nov 2013  #2
Poland has an ignorant fascination with the West. Judging life quality based on what they see on television. Some buy into Western propaganda that multiculturalism and mixed raced people are superior and since that doesn't exist in Poland....

Can't blame Poles for moving to other European nations since Europe is the pinnacle of human life
Polson 5 | 1,771
24 Nov 2013  #3
every time I chat with Polish person he/she keep complaining that life in Poland is ****** and bad

Complaining is one of the fav hobbies of people, every people, not just in Poland. In France, we say 'l'herbe est toujours plus verte ailleurs', the grass is always greener on the other side. I guess you know what I mean. This is not specific to Poland and Polish people.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
24 Nov 2013  #4
Poland's OK. The worst thing (for me) is the roads and usually overcrowded public transport (here in Wrocław, anyway). Also I do get fed up with the endless snow in the winter, although I was back in the UK for one winter and it was worse than here, where I was. We were snowed in, roads iced up, much worse than I'd had in Poland.

Another limitation is a lack of ready meals or TV dinners! For me, that's a pain, as is the difficulty in getting good cheddar and decent tea bags.

It has lots of cultural stuff to enjoy if you're into that. You'll find grand opera houses, quality theatres, nice cinemas, great shopping malls.

Jobs wise -- probably only specialists thrive. As in IT or banking or similar. People like me find it hard to find work, but that's not Poland's fault.

There are some issues, such as pollution in Krakow, and some claim air quality is not so good in the cities.

These days, Poland seems to be welcoming people from other parts of the world more and more. I think there is a large African population in Warsaw, lots and lots of people from East Asia in Wrocław, and growing numbers of people from Egypt, Libya and of course other European countries, generally working in specialist IT roles (or that's what I have been told by sources, such as bank staff opening accounts for new residents).
DominicB - | 2,650
25 Nov 2013  #5
well I am the one who have planned to move to Poland to learn polish language and then start working as I have got a lot of good offers to work at some good companies as IT engineer

As far as opportunities for job advancement and future earning potential in terms of how much absolute dollars you can save up per month, your options as an IT engineer are much better in a northern Western European country or in the Anglosphere (US, Canada, Australia and NZ) than in Poland. IT engineering jobs in Poland are often outsourced from these countries specifically to save money on wages, with the real good, interesting and high-paying jobs remaining in the home countries. You are likely to quickly hit a barrier that prevents significant upward advancement, unless you have some serious qualifications in management or finance, as well.

As for learning Polish, it is unlikely that you will develop fluency to the level that you will be able to compete with native Poles on the job market for about five years, at least. You would have to possess some serious qualifications in areas highly in demand to make a go of it until then.

I'm curious what you consider "good offers to work". How much have you been offered?

my question is WHY

The lack of well-paying jobs, especially for educated young graduates entering the market, is a major problem. Low wages even for established workers is another. Poor quality of university education is a third. High cost of living in relationship to wages is yet another. Overall backwardness of the country in relation to its neighbors to the west is another. Not unique to Poland. Greece, Italy, Spain and Portugal share a lot of the same problems, and all of those countries are in the old EU. Poland has not been in the EU for a long time, only nine years. True, Poland is improving, but it still has a ways to go. Though no country is perfect, the overall quality of life is significantly higher in northern Western European countries and the Anglosphere than in Poland, and the higher costs are generally more than offset by the higher wages. While many Poles leave Poland to work in those countries, relatively few people from those countries come to work and live in Poland. For good reason.

Most poles that I chat with are sad and depressed of being in this country

Most Poles are appear sad a depressed, even when they move abroad. In Poland, there is a sort of taboo against demonstrating that you are happy in public, and that is deeply ingrained. I've been living in Poland for eleven years, and I have learned not to smile constantly from ear to ear like an American. Just today, when I was walking through town for a meeting, a random guy come up to me and complemented me on my long white beard. That put a big smile on my face, which lasted no more than 30 meters before I realized that people were staring at me because I was smiling so openly.

I mentored a teenage student for ten hours a week for five years, and in those approximately 2500 hours, he never laughed. Never. Not even once. The most I could get out of him was a brief, faint sort-of-smile. And his family was fabulously rich, even by American standards. It's different in private, with people you know. I mentor four other boys, all of whom are all smiles and giggles when we are alone. But when they leave the house, they put on their serious-looking "street face", and their reactions to my jokes are much more subdued.
Tamarisk
25 Nov 2013  #6
Another limitation is a lack of ready meals or TV dinners! For me, that's a pain, as is the difficulty in getting good cheddar and decent tea bags.

Yes I have to agree. In UK and USA there are loads of frozen dinners. ut hardly anything here in Poland except for pizzas.

Have you tried the Tetley Classic tea bags from Tesco? 7,99 for 100 and they brew a darn good cuppa.
smurf 39 | 1,982
25 Nov 2013  #7
As you probably know, most IT jobs are done in English anyway, all the programming language and software are mostly in English, so your colleagues will all be able to speak decent English, you will however need some Polish for your daily life...going to the bank/small corner shops etc.

I would recommend that you learn some before you come.

Polish people can be quite miserable, that's just their character. Complaining is a national hobby, but once you become friends with some they lighten up. People are not warm to strangers, they can be quite rude in the streets/public transport/shops and like Dominic says, if you smile on the street they look at you like you've got 2 heads.

But again, once you get to become friends with some Poles they are incredibly warm and loyal.

Krakow prob has the best IT jobs at the minute, I know one Polish company that employs around 4000 people worldwide and their headquarters is in Krakow, I think they have about 2500 people there. Also Dell, Google, Intel etc are all in the process of beginning operations here. So, yes, there will be plenty of IT jobs for the coming years in Poland. However, if you want to get the best money then Poland isn't the best option.

Dominic is right about that, also Ireland, even though knee-deep in recession, the only industry that's doing well is IT.

Best of luck, but if I was you I'd move somewhere that offers better wages and a higher standard of living. Poland is developing fast, but remember it still a good few years behind Western EU countries.

Transport is god-awful, corruption is rife, bureaucracy moves slower than a turtle on horse tranquilizers, the health system is beyond a joke...but.....young people are smart and warm....(old women especially are not) , the weather is quite good (winters are miserable), the food, beer, vodka is all great and the Polish women are stunning.

Like everywhere, there are good and bad, and the choice will come down to your personal preferences.
Monitor 14 | 1,821
25 Nov 2013  #8
Dynamics is important when you want to invest your money into given country. If you want to simply work there, then important is current economic state and short term future. Even if Poland keeps high, past 10 years growth ratio (what is very unlikely) it will need next 20 years to get any close to wealth level of UK. People in London are not happy, because in the past 10 years their salaries where not growing fast enough and after 10 years of nearly no unemployment, since the crisis 2008 they have moderate unemployment level. I think that another reason of dissatisfaction in Europe is too big percentage of university graduates. Young after investing few years into higher education cannot find relevant job and feel frustrated. People leave Poland to richer countries because it's simple and salaries difference is very big.
peterweg 36 | 2,316
25 Nov 2013  #9
and usually overcrowded public transport (here in Wrocław, anyway).

The air in Krakow is bad (apparently) but at least the public transport is good and not over crowded.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
25 Nov 2013  #10
I'm not 100% sure it's always that good here in Wroc, either. When I get back to the UK, I tend to notice cleaner air, from almost the moment I land. They are monitoring it here in several places, but there are too many old diesel vehicles around and also lots of people burn wood in the area which doesn't help. I know some might find it hard to believe, but quite a few houses have wood stores piled up outside to heat their houses with, even here in a city.
DominicB - | 2,650
25 Nov 2013  #11
I think that another reason of dissatisfaction in Europe is too big percentage of university graduates.

Actually, there is a desperate shortage of university graduates.... in STEM fields (hard Sciences, advanced Technology, Engineering and high-level applied Math).

Problem is that there is a huge glut of graduates in areas like arts, humanities, law, journalism, education, social sciences, and soft sciences like psychology and economics, as well as graduates of low-quality programs from low-quality universities, a huge problem in Poland right now. In some fields like the arts and economics, the number of graduates per year exceed that of the total active workforce in the field.

Graduates of STEM fields create wealth and more jobs. The more engineers, for example, a country has, the more it will need in the future. Non-stem graduates generally don't. Foolishly, young people continue to choose non-stem careers, often fully aware of the bleak job prospects, and governments foolishly continue to finance their studies, fully aware that it is a bad investment.
peter_olsztyn 6 | 1,098
25 Nov 2013  #12
also I noticed that a lot of polish people don't like Poland and every time I chat with Polish person he/she keep complaining that life in Poland is ****** and bad it's not good and a lot of polish people left the country and moved to other countries around Europe , my question is WHY ?

Because majority of us earn about 500 euro pcm and spend about 400 euro monthly. What don't you understand here?

meanwhile I can see that there are a lot of countries that have lower life standard and ****** social life than Poland is like middle east !! I don't understand

We don't look at the distant countries. Majority of us even don't know where the Middle East is. We look towards West and wealthier countries like Germany, Denmark or France.
Jardinero 1 | 394
25 Nov 2013  #13
Another limitation is a lack of ready meals or TV dinners!

I would see it as a +. Gets people to cook proper meals from scratch ;-)

...difficulty in getting... decent tea bags.

Not sure what "decent" means to you. Most people would agree that Twinings and Dilmah are excellent and readily available in PL.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,531
25 Nov 2013  #14
They aren't excellent, unfortunately. They're fine for someone like me that drinks weak tea, but anyone who likes strong tea will be disappointed here.

Having said that, try and get even an average cup in Croatia...
rozumiemnic 8 | 3,661
25 Nov 2013  #15
inwro send me a hundred snotties and i will send you a box of glengettie teabags (rubs hands at the thought of lucrative new business plan, supplying fine tea to British emigrants)

i do have paypal...:)
Jardinero 1 | 394
26 Nov 2013  #16
anyone who likes strong tea will be disappointed

If the issue is not quality, but strength, surely one could adjust the tea:water proportions to suit rather easily?
sobieski 107 | 2,129
28 Nov 2013  #17
graduates of low-quality programs from low-quality universities,

Including all these "students" from Third World countries coming to "study" at "universities" (which are in fact commercial companies, earning hugely on these kind of customers) whose degrees have practically no value at all. There lately seems to be a real invasion of this.

decent tea bags.

Marks & Sparks have a decent selection...according to my wife (I stick to coffee)

Overall backwardness of the country in relation to its neighbors to the west is another.

This mentality I think is typical for "Polska B"

By the way...coffee. I am living in Poland already for many years, and the coffee situation... As I see it...you have Jacobs, Tchibo etc..which are for me hardly drinkable but cheap. And then you have Lavazzo, Ily...which are in my view outrageously expensive.

I always stock up with coffee when I go back home to Belgium. Thanks God Wizzair has a 32 kg luggage allowance :)
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
28 Nov 2013  #18
Have you tried the Tetley Classic tea bags from Tesco? 7,99 for 100 and they brew a darn good cuppa.

Nice one, thank you, they're pretty good even if they are just 1.6 grams a bag. 2 bags and it's not a bad cuppa at all for the price. :o)
Tamarisk
29 Nov 2013  #19
Glad to hear you liked the tea bags InWroclaw. For me one is enough. I also drink my tea with lemon as my mother is Polish and that is the way I have always had it. Dad drinks his with milk since he is British.
frd 7 | 1,399
29 Nov 2013  #20
IT jobs in Poland actually pay really good, they can give you salary to payments ratio similar to the one in Ireland or UK and quite high quality of life factor in bigger cities like Warsaw, Cracov or Wroclaw.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
29 Nov 2013  #21
Glad to hear you liked the tea bags InWroclaw. For me one is enough. I also drink my tea with lemon as my mother is Polish and that is the way I have always had it. Dad drinks his with milk since he is British.

They're definitely OK, albeit not as good as Tesco Finest, but they're good, thank you again. I still maintain Remsey from Biedronka is also pretty good and works out a little cheaper.
Tamarisk
29 Nov 2013  #22
I still maintain Remsey from Biedronka is also pretty good and works out a little cheaper.

We keep these for the guests. Although they do make a fine cup of tea.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
8 Dec 2013  #23
They're definitely OK

It is with great sadness that I must announce I can no longer thumbs-up Tetley Classic tea bags. I have found the tea has lost its flavour now, even with 2 bags, and I can taste the bag paper and not the tea, even after 5 mins of brewing. This means that the bags need to be transferred to airtight storage to preserve them, something I don't have to do with the Biedronka tea (or UK tea). I still have my Sainsbury Red Label here, opened, and there's no comparison between one bag of that and 2 bags of Poland Tetley. The Biedronka fares slightly better. I will be returning to Biedronka for some Remsey I think, or ordering from the website Harry recommended, which supplies Brit products. That is if I'm not back in the UK soon, which I might well be anyway.
Maybe 12 | 409
8 Dec 2013  #24
That is if I'm not back in the UK soon, which I might well be anyway

Are you going back for a holiday or to stay?
Meathead 5 | 470
8 Dec 2013  #25
and decent tea bags.

I'll take Taylors of Harrowsgate. Best English Breakfast Tea.

Use non-stem grads for Stem work.
InWroclaw 89 | 1,915
8 Dec 2013  #26
Are you going back for a holiday or to stay?

Probably will go back for at least 7 months, maybe permanently, not sure yet. Flight's booked though. But, will definitely visit Poland again, it has nice cultural stuff and countryside etc. Just no decent tea ! ;o)
Szczerbaty 4 | 49
8 Dec 2013  #27
Living there, I had the impression that Polish workers felt under-valued by their employers. I suppose this was mainly the result of how low wages were compared to how expensive things were.
Zibi - | 336
8 Dec 2013  #28
Life is good, In Poland or elsewhere, if you know how to manage it.
delphiandomine 83 | 17,531
8 Dec 2013  #29
I had the impression that Polish workers felt under-valued by their employers.

That's often because they wanted all the benefits without any of the risk or the stress. Communism caused that - there was a vicious tendency in the PRL for workers to strike over petty things because they knew the regime would shut them up with a pay rise.
Ironside 47 | 9,563
8 Dec 2013  #30
thank you for giving me your time , waiting for real answers .

I think that is yet another poster in long line of real trolls.

my question is WHY

Because Polish government and ruling class is derived from Soviet scum and they do not care about this country but about their scummy businesses, in fact that know no better, In effect Polish average decent citizen is being scammed three times a second everyday. Government, rules and everything else is hostile towards Polish decent citizen. The only thing Government provide is employment for its voters.

I check about the economy of Poland all I can see is growing country and it has fast growth !!

How did you check Polish economy? Cause that is clear BS.

Most poles that I chat with are sad and depressed of being in this country

#
Small wonder.

are a lot of countries that have lower life standard and ****** social life than Poland is like middle east !!

How would you know?

Poland is member of European Union since long time

It is not the same EU Poland aspired it changed into yes-boy machine for European corporations and Banks. Not long time about ten years.

and all I know it keeps growing especially in technology field !

How could you possibly know that?

! I have noticed that people keep looking to live in expensive countries like west

Expensive is a qestion of perspective, for most Poles Poland is expensive and they are looking to live in all those countries because there is nothing for them in Poland. Those countries with aging populations welcoming young work force especially they didn't paid for costs of their rearing from kids to adults.

That's often because they wanted all the benefits without any of the risk or the stress.

They wanted decent wage not benefits.


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