Work / Can I find a job in Poland that requires speaking in English? [82]

Of course, Dirk!

Nobody's saying that English is even the primary tongue when talking with the average people in the street, and this surprisingly includes countries such as Sweden or Denmark, where English has been taught in school as a compulsory subject for more than half-a-century:-) At the upper echelons though, whether its in Lithuania, Germany, Iceland, Spain, Italy or France etc. it's a fact that a generally respectable level of English will be widely understood.

The thing is that in order to truly understand what one's interlocutor is actually trying to say, English ALONE simply won't cut it in most instances. The reasons for this naturally are too involved, not to mention numerous, to go into now or on this thread.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]

Whole problem with the phrase "Polish Death Camps" is that it falsely (if unintentionally) misrepresents the facts, namely, that they were not "Polish", but in actuality, German death camps which merely stood on what is nowadays Polish soil.

This oughtn't be that difficult to grasp now, should it?

Work / Can I find a job in Poland that requires speaking in English? [82]

Granted, if I as a Polish employer for instance looked at some Norwegian univ. grad's cv and he claimed to know Polish backwards, forwards, inside-out, whereas his/her IT or company skills were lacking, (and the job description were : IT SPECIALIST SOUGHT FOR POLISH START UP FIRM IN NOWY SACZ), obviously I wouldn't hire the person.

Nonetheless, it would certainly be a definite plus if that person spoke fluent Polish in addition. I'd make a business decision most likely and tell the chap that his Internet knowledge is so good that I'd overlook the candidate/applicant's lack of Polish skills...under the proviso that the candidate work with an on-staff bilingual Polish-English, or whatever software engineer to smooth out any language problems, if there were any, and everything would be just hunky-dory!

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]

I agree here. The Death Camps were physically located in what is now Poland, yet they were manned, that is, run, and conceived by, Germans. NOT Poles!

In addition, the area where they were erected was considered Deutsches Reich, and not independent Polish territory.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]

Precisely! Let's be exact. There were "KZs" or "Concentration Camps" for numerous others, not exclusively Jews at all, used to warehouse, and of course kill or torture, millions of prisoners for the duration of the War. There were "Vernichtungslager" or "Extermination Camps", known in the vernacular as "Death Camps" or "Todeslager" whose sole purpose was the physical elimination of "undesirables", primarily (though not only) Jews, as well as homosexuals, not necessarily Jews, Sinti-Roma as well as the mentally or terminally ill. Finally, there were "Sammellager" or "Internment Camps" where so-called "Enemies of the Reich" along with other miscellaneous foreign prisoners, were housed during the War.

Work / Can I find a job in Poland that requires speaking in English? [82]

@kaprys,

What you stated about the US is at least one of the main reasons why most of the country voted for the Man in the Red Tie:-)

The double standard is so apparent, it seems, to everyone but you.

Once at the UN-school in New York where I was teaching English and German, the owner came to me one morning and asked if I could replace the surplus of German classes with English (twice the load, at twice the money!!), as apparently the native-born head teacher of the German Sector was bothered by my "American accent". While not disturbing the content of instruction in any way, I pointed out to our esteemed principal that Frau Hagedorn, let's call her, had a noticable German accent as an English teacher, and yet nobody was said to have objectedLOL Tart as my retort undoubtedly was, I remained in their employ and even got a raise (though not for German).

Moral of the story; American accents are bothersome, amusing to say the least, in a foreign language, whereas foreign accents in English are "cool", "elegant", and "desirable".

Work / Can I find a job in Poland that requires speaking in English? [82]

The sole point is that, while finding a job in any country, obviously not only Poland, can be accomplished without knowing the target language of the country, the effort is more rewarding than merely relying on the other person's knowledge of English.

It's rather like being a babe in the woods. As an innocent, people can take that much more advantage of you, that's all.

When I was in Poland, people didn't expect me to know Polish and so in a shop, the shop owner felt he might overcharge or claim I misunderstood the wording on the sale tag. When I proved he was not being quite honest, the owner was quite surprised, rather embarrassed, and gave me the merchandise for free.

A small example, but proves my point once again that knowing at least the basics of the language can facilitate daily life immeasurably:-)

Work / Can I find a job in Poland that requires speaking in English? [82]

We all still appear to be missing the key point, put another way, we're not seeing the forest for the trees.

It's easy to be wise acres and contrarians by playing the Devil's advocate even though I'm clearly right here, it's harder to fess up to the plain fact that for any variety of reasons, the standards for English have been watered down to the point of unrecognizability.

Were the average European university grad honest about their English skills, that they're practicing it and therefore enjoy speaking it (although obviously an educated native Anglophone can do it better) simply to look good in public, I'd have no problem. There'd be no pretense involved, and the playing field would be level, fair, and workable.

Plain fact is that for a foreigner in Europe, be it Poland, Germany or what have you, target language knowledge would seem a must! Excellent math or IT skills don't necessarily equate to commensurate English skill. A no brainer, that's all!

@TheOther,

:-))

Work / Can I find a job in Poland that requires speaking in English? [82]

The goal is not poetry, but the nuances of English, for that matter, any extant language spoken. Where once, firms used native speakers of those languages to communicate with international, foreign-speaking clients, today, we are reliant far too frequently on the less than sufficient English of non-native Englisn speakers, far too quick to rationalize their less than perfect English on the fact that the client probably won't know or care about the difference.

We've become tone deaf to idiom and are in danger of losing the humor and melody which makes English so special to us Anglophiles.

There's no need to be sarcastic, kaprys. I never once contended that I spoke German BETTER than a native-born German and so forth.
However, the thread is about finding a job in Poland without necessarily knowing Polish. My reply is that the ideal candidate should make it their business to know both languages... or simply stay home. They thus can save themselves a lot of grief, and money!

History / Roman Dmowski-Patriot, Nationalist, Anti-Semite? [252]

..while the more far thinking, kaprys, realized before long that the road to acceptance, is solely through assimilation!

A good point.

History / Roman Dmowski-Patriot, Nationalist, Anti-Semite? [252]

Why shouldn't it? Any ultra-nationalistic posture endangers those groups living within their midst who are seen as not conforming to a basically artificial ideology, whether Israel for Sabarim only, Poland for the Poles, Germany for the Germans etc. It's all the same hateful business which contends the nation should take care solely of her own surplus and "others" who don't happen to fit in with state plans be damned!!

Work / Can I find a job in Poland that requires speaking in English? [82]

My German is superior to the English of any native German speaker whom I've encountered thus far, not to mention Pole, Italian, Austrian or other:-)

Hate to disappoint you (yet once again), but yes my friend, I WON this fight, and no, I'm not especially "happy" to theoretically be at the eternal mercy of non-native Anglophones who seem to enjoy holding their alleged bilingualism over my head!

That's not being defensive or what have you, it's being realistic.

By the way, I DID misspell "NITpicking"...unless I'm knitting while I'm pickingLOL

Returning to the thread topic after a brief detour off the highway of good sense, I recently read in the US Journal of Higher Ed (ESL section) that more and more European universities will usually require an updated TESOL degree from any number of state-accredited British or American institutions before the applicant can even think about being interviewed.

Work / Can I find a job in Poland that requires speaking in English? [82]

Most EU-nations will number countless recent university grads who claim bi- indeed tri lingualism and are highly "competitive" with international job seekers!
The issue becomes whether the quality of their English sufficiently matches that of their native language, along with their other skills, e.g. IT, event planning, accounting etc.

In my experience, at least in the rest of Europe (Italy, Germany, Austria), is that the average information technologist may well have above-average skills within their discipline, to be sure, might have graduated at the top of their class, competitive with the best from elsewere, yet their spoken and written English is typically lacking in comparison with that of an American, Brit, Australian or Canadian.

Convincing many young Italians, Germans, and Austrians of this, can often be a full -time job (...equipt with battle gear for the tough fight one'll get)!

Bottom line in today's economy remains just that; to maintain a healthy bottom line, international companies are eschewing hiring interpreters because it's considered way too expensive. As a result, those on staff who are, say, IT enginieers and NOT language specialists, are empowered with the feeling that their English is good enough for any situation, even if it's not always the case, furthermore, that any criticism of their English skills must be merely knitpicking:-)

Prior to run-away globalization, companies would intelligently use only qualified native-speaking interpreters and translators for sensitive, international negotiation, refusing to trust every Pietro, Elena, Udo, Hartmut out there who claimed that their Matura/Abitur-level English iminently qualified them to go one-on-on with any educated native-born and trained English speaker.

Those were the days.

History / Roman Dmowski-Patriot, Nationalist, Anti-Semite? [252]

@Bieganski, looks to me though as if you're using the old "Yeah, but Hitler built the Autobahn and he did promote vegetarianism...etc." to justify unspeakably terrible things, here, saying that only Zionists would criticize Dmowski for being a known anti-Semite.

Anti-any sort of bigotry's always the easy way out for blamers to put the guilt on others as the cause of larger social problems.

Had the Jews of Poland been allowed to integrate not long after they arrived, convert only at their desire, there would scarcely have been all that trouble for centuries. Jews are no more recalcitrant about adopting to their surroundings than anybody else!

Work / Can I find a job in Poland that requires speaking in English? [82]

@kaprys,

Sadly, I'm certain you must be right in various industries. However, working in any country without at least knowing the basics of the national language would have to be agonizingly self defeating, sitting alongside one's colleagues at an office or factory and not really catching what they mean!

But hey, whatever floats yer boat:-)

History / Roman Dmowski-Patriot, Nationalist, Anti-Semite? [252]

Likewise, Ironside! Is that how you answer a debate topic by responding "Take a hike!"? Pretty sophomoric, I must say.

You clearly missed my point that the article by a well-known Polish historian, I take it, presented a very clear overview of the man and his career, yet offered no opinion concerning some of Dmowski's clear anti-Jewish bias, that's all.

Why such umbrage?

History / Roman Dmowski-Patriot, Nationalist, Anti-Semite? [252]

@Bieganski,

I'm not "guilty" of much of anything, other than expressing my concern, at least my observation, that the article which I read was strangely uncritical of Dmowski.

Don't know where on G_d's Green Earth you get that I'm somehow linking Dmowski with "Polish Concentration Camps" or post-War anti-Jewish hostility et al. but I think you ought to be examined, personally:-)

History / Roman Dmowski-Patriot, Nationalist, Anti-Semite? [252]

Merged:

Roman Dmowski being re-examined

In the light of the emergence of a new-found nationalism throughout Europe, on the heels of slow burning disillusionment with misguided liberal policies, the early 20th century Polish politician and nationalist theorist, Roman Dmowski, is now being looked at in a new, if alarmingly, positive light.

A recent article in our local Polish journal "Nowy Dziennik", seemed to omit mention of his once infamous "Kwestia Zydowska" (The Jewish Question) and treated his clear anti-Semitism along with pro-Polophilism and the need for a strong Catholic Poland, with a somewhat objective, dispassionate resignation.

Any comments from the group?

Work / Can I find a job in Poland that requires speaking in English? [82]

Always better to learn the language of the country if you want any sort of respectable (paid) employment.

News / Israel opposing potential new Polish law to criminalise term 'Polish death camps' [1539]

In fact, they were GERMAN death camps which happened to be located on present-day Polish soil, at that time occupied by the German Reich.

History / Poles and (Polish) Jews... Victims of war... and beyond [380]

Trust Mr. Trump won't forget to mention Jewish victims as well, rather than being so conveniently general:-)

History / POLISH AND RUSSIAN FRIENDSHIP WILL LAST FOREVER [513]

@ktos, you're correct! The topic is about politics, not beverages:-)
lol

History / POLISH AND RUSSIAN FRIENDSHIP WILL LAST FOREVER [513]

@kaprys,

You make a good point! Indeed, the young woman in question doubtless had never met any Jews prior, Polish born or otherwise, therefore, was more than slightly flustered by my question, NOT by my English, as hers was frankly just about perfect, if I do say so myself!

@Bieganski,

I take it you're just be sarky as usualisLOL

@ktos,

Jews were seen as a threat, this is true! Having been excluded from gentile society on the whole, it was both human as well as completely natural, that they too would seek their "place" with that society, having to fight the majority culture pushing them back every step of the way.....unless of course, it was felt that certain "Jewish skills" were needed.

Guess though, as an American, if people are born in a country (despite the national origin of their immediate ancestors), go to primary school up through university there, are raised SOLELY in the national language, even if they might know the language of their parents, adopt the mores and are even allowed to serve in the military, are basically indistinguishable from the rest of the majority, duhhh now, I guess that makes them European nationals. Seems a no brainer, don;t you think?

Suppose other nationalities see things differently.

History / POLISH AND RUSSIAN FRIENDSHIP WILL LAST FOREVER [513]

Until rather recently, I believe that Jews during the days of the Soviet Union had no Russian nationality so to speak, but instead, were treated to a nice big "Z" atop their travel documents such as their passport, in order to identify them as "Jewish" (Zyd), and not "Russian".

Such is not uncommon in any number of European countries!. Approx. ten years ago when I was teaching English to a group of Polish university students in New York at a language school near the UN, the subject of integrating foreigners came up as a discussion topic. One woman from the Catholic University of Lublin where she was studying business management replied to my question concerning the minority status of Jews identified as such in Poland as follows.

When I asked whether she knew of any Polish-Jewish students attending the university, she paused and responded thoughtfully enough that they probably would only be in the section for foreigners, rather than Poles.

Plus ca change, n'est pas?

History / POLISH AND RUSSIAN FRIENDSHIP WILL LAST FOREVER [513]

@jon, politics makes strange bedfellows. Yesterday's sworn "enemy" is today's best "friend"LOL

@ktos, The Chinese have an even older civilization than the Egyptians, much less the ancient Slavs:-)

Genealogy / Mongolian the Golden Horde - do Poles have Mongolian ancestry? [256]

I've always maintained the Poles, more than the Czechs or certainly the Southern Slavs, have a distinctly Asiatic cast to their faces. Just look at a majority in profile and it's as plain as day. The high cheekbones and tightly-drawn skin, plus the often course hair, all bear clear Asian similarity. They're to be sure a mixture of the Germanic (as stated many times before), the Slavic, the Baltic and, of course, that of their more Eastern cousins:-)

Polonia / How do Poles feel about Romanians and Bulgarians? [27]

Bulgaria, much as Albania (I believe), did in fact allow Jews safe haven during WWII, whereas the majority of countries, including those occupied, didn't. Sweden remained "neutral", as did Switzerland (HA!!!). Finland and Norway (despite the "Heroes of Telemark") sided with the German enemy, even if not for the same reasons:-)

Addendum. Technically, Bulgaria WAS on the Axis side, however, unlike supposedly neutral neighbors, Bulgaria didn't automatically hand over her Jews. In that sense, she didn't follow Berlin's orders.

Polonia / How do Poles feel about Romanians and Bulgarians? [27]

Bulgarians and Romanians belong to two totally separate ethnicities, therefore the only thing they share is a common history of Communism, but little else.
During the Second World War, Bulgaria was on the Allies' side, whereas Romania (like Hungary along with several others) was on the Axis side.

News / Poland in the European Union. Polexit? [559]

@Tacitus, please confirm you received my reply. I'm not able to access your mailbox.

Life / Polish and Czechs [191]

I repeat, who pray are the Hamburgericans? Do you mean perhaps butt-kissing Germans who tow the party line of the West, chiefly the States??!
If yes, then say so plainly:-)