History / Question on Poland's szlachta clan admission [26]


Yes and untill late 16th century was practised for great feats on the field of battle, contributions to science, law or economy.


Depending on the period it required King or Sejm recognition, Hetmans could also ennoble people as well as local sejmiks.

Sometimes a combination of approvals mentioned above was required, all depending on the historical period and circumstances.


Families had a fairly straightforward elders->the rest. The elders and most influential family members formed a council that decided on various matters (in case of large and powerfull noble/magnate families).


Generally all forms of nobility were more common in the Crown as it was much wealthier and more then six times as populous.

I will provide detailed info on Uniates tomorrow i'm too tired to browse my stuff now.

Love / I love my Polish girl! Wanted to share my story. [55]


You telling someone he's not mature is like a retard giving a lecture on IQ :)))

Love / I love my Polish girl! Wanted to share my story. [55]


So do I.

Signed.

her fiancee.


Czechy are a very very nice place to be, Lithuania is nice but p*ss poor, Albania is both p*ss poor and full of Muslims and Ukraine is so poor and backwater it nearly collapses reality, why would you put a nice place like Czech Republic next to such dumps?

@UK.

Since British people executed Mel Gibson after he kicked their ass at Stirling they suck, he was my favourite actor you fvckers.

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


There's an old Polish proverb "Diabeł tkwi w szczegółach" the devil is in the details. They founded much of their philosophy and religion on the Greeks but you have to remember that the primative driving force for Rome was law and technology and these two were developed independently from Greece.

Romans were the ones who popularised crossbows, boarding ships the way it was done to 19 century, they were the first to invent the concept of law in its modern style, public schools, they were the first to get serious about masonry and ironworks.

To realise the extent of their heritage take a look at Germans of Holy Roman Empire, these guys were living in stone castles, using heavy chainmail and weapons, employing heavy cavalry and using irigation and infrastructure that was copied or directly used by Romans.

All major Western settlements including Londinium or Lutetia (Paris) were originally developed under Roman rule.

As for Baalbek: world-mysteries.com/mpl_5b1.htm


Yeah thats the problem, they ignored the astrological dating.

viewzone.com/tia.html


I cant really provide any real explanation to that, either we have uber genes that kill off all traces of other ethnicities or we just stayed relatively intact through the ages, i dont really know how but thats the end result.


It wasnt simply alienation in large housing complexes, Jews and Poles had different cultures to a point that you could not marry a person and their heritage, either you had to go over to the dark side or they did, for Poles and Jews both with loads of heritage (though in Jewish case it was mostly religious) it was not an easy thing to do, also there would often be lack of acceptance from both sides.

Poland was socially stratified, you had Magnates -> nobles -> citizens -> Jews -> peasants.

A Jew was not seen as a different race but as a different plane of society, he was in status somewhere around a citizen but prevented from becoming a full citizen by a massive cultural barrier, Jews did not want to mingle fearing their national cohesion would be treatened and eventually Poles stopped encouraging them having their own problems (partitions and such) so the two groups were increasingly separate despite living alongside each other.

Today Jews like to hang the dogs on us Poles for our supposed anti-semitism but the fact is the separation of our two peoples was always a fact and only deepened by history and both our nations.


Thats only because you dont know what a caste society Poland was, when my great grandmother married a peasant she was excluded from family, it didnt matter that the guy was filthy rich, well educated or simply a decent man, he was a peasant.


Nope, most Jewish lads never felt the need to integrate, neither did Polish lads, they lived peacefully alongside each other but thats it, there was no great push to integration, why would there be? Jews were not bothered and allowed to live as they wanted, Poles lived as they wanted, no one was pushing for forced friendship.


Come on Yehudi i always had you for a smart lad, Jews in Poland were protected by law and no a Christian would not be killed and if he did that was a criminal act and you were hanged for that, stop spreading slander thats Harrys job.

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


They invented or popularised concepts that became basis for our civilisation, Poland for example used Latin as its written language for science trade etc all through its golden period.

Germans inherited things like engineering, masonry, ironworks, we're all either direct (Western Europe) or indirect (Eastern Europe) inheritors of Roman civilisation.


No one can but we do find stuff like Tiahuanco or Baalbec, sites that are between 12 and 20.000 years old built with technologies that even today are at the very limit of our capability hence all the Atlantis mumbo jumbo, there's stuff there but due to its age we have no idea who and how put it there, the same with Sphinx to some degree.


Genpol for one but there's more out there, Poles are the most homogenous people in Europe, this is of course not a natural state but rather an effect of German genocide and Russian ethnic policies.


Yep the huge issue is however that they lived alongside Poles not with the Poles.


It was a cultural thing, Nobles saw mixing with Jews as degradation, peasants were extremely insular and Jews themselves were even more so, the Ghettos are a Jewish invention after all, it was a nation within a nation and a country within a country.

Jews today are quite angry over the fact that Poles did not mourn the passing of Jewish minority but the fact is Jews secluded themselves to a point that a Jewish family living next door could as well live on the other planet.

If you have these kinds of cultural bariers then interbreeding is going to be very rare, you have a XXI century grasp of things, parties, people mingling freely, it looked quite different in both the old republics, Polish society from 14th century becomes increasingly stratified and the classes mix less and less, during second republic Jews become emancipated which leads to another conflict with Poles so even in XX century Poland both groups would not intermarry.

Sure there were cases when Rabbi Moshe fell in love with Kasia next door or Piotrek fell in love with Sara the Jewish waitress but these were rare and the relationship coming to fruition even rarer.

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


Celts came here around 3300 years ago, Ceide Fields predate them by over 2000 years, like i said agriculture in Europe existed long before Celts ever arrived.


I never said they were the first i just said they were our (European) mother civilisation, the oldest city in the world is over 12.000 years old and f*cks up our history so they're by far not the first.

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


And in France, the greatest campaigns against the Celts were conducted by Ceasar in France, not in England.

Also Hadrians wall was a defence against Picts not Celts.


Agriculture existed in Europe long before the Celtic people and yes i'm aware that there were Celts in Poland but most of them left between 100 and 300 years before proto-Polish tribes settled the region.


Initially yes but once they developed their civilisation they had started many of their own concepts, Roman roads, Trirems, modern agriculture, temperature tampering (they were the first to use glasshouses of various designs) modern medicine at a level uknown in Greece, concepts of ethics, morality and law as well as nationhood that did not exist in such form in Greece not to mention military related technologies.

Another important thing, whatever the Romans did not invent but simply adapt they spread it around the world, things such as heavy cavalry for example, why do you think Germans had such initiall success in conquering the Slavic tribes.

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


Given that Jewish secular culture and civilisation was by then dead for centuries and not revived untill XIX century who're you to speak about late starts, your civilisation is less then 150 years old and much poorer then even the youngest nations of Europe, possibly the only country in Europe with less heritage then Jews is Belarus.

Also i wouldnt call over 1000 years of statehood a late start.


Celts were however underdeveloped when compared the Romans, Romans came with all the advancements of a modern civilisation while Celts while being conquered only started to be an urban civilisation with all the trimmings.


The problem with these civilisations is that they came and went without living a lasting imprint, also while they did have great achievements in specific fields they were not an all round advanced civilisation, Rome managed to become the first truly modern civilisation and introduced concepts and ideas that were the foundation of all European nations and states.

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


Medicine, architecture, first Europe wide infrastructure system, standarized currencies for all peoples, improved farming technologies, metalurgy, seafaring.

You're still an idiot buddy.


Not most and not concepts, they incorporated much of Greek philosophy and art but their technological and legal advancements are their own which you would know if you werent a redneck that uses books for wiping his arse.


What do the Medes, Parthians or Sassanids have in common with Germanic tribes? Just stop posting you moron.


The European civilisation, Polish included started from Roman civilisation.

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]

During late Roman Empire more then 30% of the population came from Germanic tribes (known to uneducated idiots like you as "barbarians").

In the end Germanic people made up a significant amount of both Eastern and Western Empires and together with the French who're part Celtic part Germanic inherited (albeit in a much cruder form) the Roman civilisation and many of its achievements.

Now go read a book captain retard.

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


Not really no. Most Europeans are descended from 3 major tribe groups not related to any of the above (Well Germanics are related to ancient Romans but thats through early interbreeding).

Genetic science disagrees with you sorry, more then 98% of Poles dont have any Jewish ancestor, they might have an European convert along the line but thats hardly an ethnic Jew.

Also there was hardly any "fooling around" the two groups simply did not mix, the cases where Jews did marry into a Polish family or vice versa were extremely rare.

@On Khazars.

At one time the majority of Jewish converts were indeed Khazars but in early and high medieval we're talking about European converts and their descendants mixed with said Khazar descendants.

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]

Prof Rymuta from Genpol had an interview with Rzeczpospolita (his article was online) mail them they have an archive and an internal search engine they'll mail you back with the relevant article.

technopolis.polityka.pl/2008/zbadalem-swoje-geny

Another problem as pointed out here and in many other places is that quite a lot of Jews in Poland were not Jewish(semitic) at all, ethnically these guys were European converts or more specifically their descendants which would explain why the few Jews who did intermarry with Poles did not leave a semitic trace in our genepool, because they were ethnically Slavic, Germanic, Celtic or the mix of thereof and not Semitic, these genes are less stubborn and prone to getting diluted in Slavic-specific genes.

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]

No, because Jewish culture had very little to offer, Jews themselves twisted the topic but the fact is for centuries Jewish culture was centred around sacrum, there was very little secular achievement and Jews by and large were uneducated masses and Jewish ghettos were uniformly poor.

Add to that that Jewish secular culture started to truly develop in late XIX century and you'll find that both cultures generally did not interlock and Jewish one being inferior to Polish (or in fact to any European culture) by principle of being less developed did not really contribute because for a very long time it had little to offer.

Ultimately after centuries of co-existence all we inherited from our Jewish citizens is a few synagouges, cemetaries and phrases in Polish thats as far as Jewish influence in Poland went.

If you want to look towards true contributors to Polish culture look to Germany, Italy, Hungary and Turkey.

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]


And out of said 100.000 approx 4000 turned out to actually have Jewish ancestors, from FŻP and they know their stuff.

Harasimowicz estimates there's maybe 50.000 polonised part-Jews in Poland which makes up less then 0.05% of the population.


And thats more correct, Poland when Jews came in numbers was already a stable and quite rich culturally and civilisationally, many habits and customs were invented in or borrowed from Poles but ethnically there was very little mingling.

Semitic genes are fairly strong and they would show up in the genetic map of Poland, they dont, in fact there's so few Poles with semitic genes that they fall into a gap of statistical error (0.5%).

Its common that Poles contact Jewish agencies, our families have been in turmoil during WW2 and nowdays many of us want our roots back and Jews were a large minority and they did recover many of their records but the actual number of Poles with Jewish roots is probably one of the smallest in the world as far as nations are concerned.

In fact despite all the wars Poles are one of the most (genetically as well) homogenous people in Europe.

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]


A more reliable source?:)

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]


And murder them slowly with blunt instruments, if it makes you feel better i'm more Germanic then most Brits, i'm just pointing out the interesting dynamic between our countries there's no malevolent bit to my words.

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]


In one of history's quirks the situation is the exact opposite of that from XIV century.

Poland was severely depopulated after a series of wars and invited German settlers to replace the missing people, today Germany is severely depopulated due to its demographic crisis and Polish settlers replace the aging locals.

@We're all Germans.

Once the article made an estimate that between 10k and 200k Saxons emigrated from Germany i stopped treating it seriously.

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]


So all those Celts suddenly became Germanic? Because UK is predominantly Celtic, both Saxon and Norman invasions were a minority unless we're counting someone having a Norman ancestor 600 years ago as being Germanic.


They took over Roman heritage and spread it all over Europe, even if at the tip of the sword they still did.


Only because of US aid which nedless to say wont last forever.


I think i'm familiar with that, it was Grossmans (A German Jew) who took a template that anyone with a German ancestor was Germanic, no wonder he got his numbers inflated so much.


You know all the talk about "Germans buying out Poland"? Well by now more then 2/3rds of German border settlements have a Polish minorities, more then 20% have a Polish majority, there's Polish schools, Polish kindergardens, Polish road signs, Polish shops etc its like little Poland except its up to 60km deep into German territory.

@Brutal.

Germany and Poland managed to make peace despite more bad blood between them then Israel and Palestinians will ever have, at the same time Jews play their little fascist game on and on, that alone speaks volumes about the maturity and civilisation level of Germany vs Israel.

Not to mention Germany will go on, it might have economical problems, it might have demographic issues but no one is invading it, despite WW2 its not surrounded by hating neighbours, not even Poles Israel on the other hand ...

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]

BB no one in his right mind can and would question the success of Germany on most fields but it does not have any relation to demographic outlook, you guys are an old nation in every sense imaginable and in your case thats no longer a positive thing for your own sake.

History / Polish-German alliance. [489]


Oh please stop being such a blooy chauvinist, Russia, Poland, France, England, all of those are Germanic too?


Last i checked it was 22 milion ethnic Germans unless we count someone who's grandfather or someone along the line was German, in this case we have 28 milion Poles, 47 milion Irish, 53 milion Germans, 13 milion Dutch, i dont remember off the hat but if we count it this way we'll end up with 300+ milion white people alone.

So sorry counting someone with a distant relative as Germanic is almost as much of a stretch as the article you quote.


In Germany you will allright, check out Polish-German border to have a reality check.

Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]

Actually the Jews in Poland left suprisingly little, the genetic research backs up history, Jews and Poles did not mix.

There was an odd Jew who became Polish, a few of them went on to become notable on various fields but in general both population lived side by side but not mingling on a more intimate level given how insular Jews were.

So no, an example of a Pole who has even one Jewish member of his family sometime in the past is exceptionally rare.

Another case is that some Jews polonised themselves relatively late but their numbers probably dont exceed thirty maybe forty thousand people in 38.5 milion country.

As for civlisation, Polish culture and civilisation borrowed heavily from Western traditions and married them with its own so even here Jews did not contribute anything significant.

The topic is just off it rocker.


4000 to be specific, there's sites and associations that are busy with that, approximately 4000 Polish citizens re-discovered their Jewish roots, again from a country of 38 milion people, hardly basis to speak of Jewish roots of Poland.

Genealogy / Polish Gypsy Roots & Roma ancestors in their families [205]


Not many, in earlier Polish republics Gypsies due to their lifestyle were somewhat pariahs and even today both groups are alien to each other, i'd say having Roma roots is exceptionally rare in Poland.

Life / Are foreigners welcome in Poland? [267]


Thats love, but foreigners generally have it harder to get into the deeper family/friend area, otherwise they're accepted far more then in the most places in the world.

History / Poland: Her heroes and her traitors [217]


In our historiography when Prussia, Austria and Russia partitioned us Polish Cause = striving to get back our independence and help maintain our national integrity.


Not in Polish history, our line is clear cut in this aspect.

Sorry Pawian did not notice your answer.

I'd go with this fellow for a hero, a very very tragic figure.

A son to the poor noble family he was sponsored by Prince Czartoryski and received great military education.

Denied the hand of a wealthy magnates daughter with whom we was deeply in love he transferred all this love to his country.

He went to America where he was instrumental in several key victories, we can go as far as to say that he and Pulaski were the people who saved the American revolution, befriended Abraham Lincoln, built the original West Point fort.

Then moved back to Poland to command the Uprising that would be known for all history after his surname "Kościuszkowskie" wounded and captured he was imprisoned, the uprising lost, he spent his final years in Switzerland where he died.

News / Dalai Lama says: "POLAND HAS RETAINED ITS SPIRIT" [77]


Jews, Greeks, Romans ... We could go on. Poles didnt give the world so many thinkers and scientists i give you that but as far as military achievement we surpassed everyone, going so far as to occupy Moscow, twice and having our prince becoming a Tzar so i guess we must have not been so dysfunctional after all.


Becuase we were the pariah of Europe and after we did quite a bit for it saving European civilisation twice etc, there's multiple reasons for that but that self-pity and anger towards Europe is largely justified, times are changing and so are attitudes but it takes time.


Not really you're just rich and you've always been bordering someone who had you on edge, first it was powerfull Poland, then it was powerfull Austria and then Russia so you never let your society slide like France or Italy did.

News / Dalai Lama says: "POLAND HAS RETAINED ITS SPIRIT" [77]


So where was this inherent dysfunctionality for the past 680 years when we turned Germany into a backwater state by sheer economical output and geopolitical relevance?

It know it was waiting to creep up on us when we least expected it! Even today its apparent in our economy, the only one thats growing and our effortless conquest of every possible job market, something no other country including hard working Germans could do:))))

Also:


Say's a grandson of a Nazi soldier, how does it feel to have the greatest genocide in the history of the human race in your non-dysfunctional nations history books:))))

News / Dalai Lama says: "POLAND HAS RETAINED ITS SPIRIT" [77]


680 years to be specific, then it entered 110~ years of decline and following 200~ years of rather bad luck.


Actually it was primarily our own (Polish) errors that brought down Poland.

History / Polish Atlantis (pre-war Warsaw, Poland in pictures). [38]

Actually you're right the bank has been rebuilt, the fellow who sent me the particular picture attached a comment but afterwards it turned out the bank indeed survived and was repaired.

History / Polish Atlantis (pre-war Warsaw, Poland in pictures). [38]


You're welcome to all of them, i've got permission from sites or private owners to show or distribute them as long as its non commercial.


Some of them were influenced by Russian architectonic styles of the XIX century thats where the similarity comes from.


Greater Poznań aka Wielkopolska, the city of Poznań and a few towns around it (more tomorrow).

Ostrówek, a town/subburb of Poznań.

Chwaliszewo another Poznań subburb town.

River harbor on the Warta river - Poznań.

Działyński's palace.

Poznań - main market entrance.

Marcinkowskiego Alley - Poznań.

Poznań - view from the Summer Square.

Poznań - old and new townhalls.

Old townhall interior - Poznań.

Main post office - Poznań.

And my personal favourite, you can feel there's something unique about it and i've actually contacted the fellow who claims to be the owner of the picture to get its history.

4 Brothers, from left to right, an artist, a post worker, a soldier and a student, picture taken on the street of a Polish city in 1937.

All of them would fight in 1939 in the defence of Poland, the youngest one (far right) will be awarded a medal for his bravery at the Battle of Bzura (one of the largest battles of WW2 fought in the Polish campaign).

One vanished without a trace in the war years, the other will be murdered by Germans, only the eldest and the youngest (far right and far left) will be alive when the war ends.

Thats it for tonight, more tomorrow.

A mix of pictures.

Cafe on Freedom Square in Poznań - 1927.

Poznań panoramic view - 1930.

Mountain riflemen parading 1935.

Warsaw ballet 1936.

Botanic garden in Poznań

Greater Poland town.

Generations of a single family.

Raczyńscy library - Poznań.

History / Polish Atlantis (pre-war Warsaw, Poland in pictures). [38]

Lwów - king Sobieski statue.

Humble beginings of the Polish private bus lines (that by 1939 were not so humble).

A facility of the Ossolińscy library in Lwów.

Lwów university, front entrance.

A rowing club in Warsaw, Vistula river.

St Andrews church in Warsaw.

Ministry palace in Warsaw.

A tram passing across Kierbedzia bridge in Warsaw.