Bratwurst Boy
3 Jan 2010
Bratwurst Boy
2 Jan 2010
Bratwurst Boy
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]
Jonni said there aren't any Khazar's...I have no idea about that if I'm honest....
Jonni said there aren't any Khazar's...I have no idea about that if I'm honest....
Bratwurst Boy
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]
I think there is HUGE confusion over the thread title..
Agreed!
Who are you and what have you done with my Butcher???
I think there is a small confusion over the thread's tittle.
I think there is HUGE confusion over the thread title..
Poland as a country doesn't have Jewish roots, BUT more than a couple of Poles have Jewish blood in their veins, to some extent
Agreed!
Who are you and what have you done with my Butcher???
Bratwurst Boy
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]
Erm...you mean that?
thefreedictionary.com/Root
Poland the origin of the Jews? Do they descend from Poland? Nope and nope...
Hence no jewish roots! It can't be that hard, can't it....
I can't and I won't! But there is the difference..
Tell me Jonni, Poland had for many centuries millions of ethnical Germans between it's ever changing borders...would you call Poland having german roots?
*waits expectantly*
Read the title of this thread. Go on, just read it. At the top of the page.
Erm...you mean that?
Jewish Roots of Poland
So go on then. What's your definition of roots? I can predict what you'll say, but lets hear it anyway.
thefreedictionary.com/Root
....
A primary source; an origin
A progenitor or ancestor from which a person or family is descended.
A primary source; an origin
A progenitor or ancestor from which a person or family is descended.
Poland the origin of the Jews? Do they descend from Poland? Nope and nope...
Hence no jewish roots! It can't be that hard, can't it....
Can you deny that Polish culture has absorbed elements from Jewish life?
I can't and I won't! But there is the difference..
Tell me Jonni, Poland had for many centuries millions of ethnical Germans between it's ever changing borders...would you call Poland having german roots?
*waits expectantly*
Bratwurst Boy
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]
How come you always talk about "jewish roots of Poland" then all the time?
ROFL:)
You don't even know the meaning of the word "roots" and think ethnicity is the same as culture.
Back to school with you! ;)
I said it from the beginning but somehow you think it is the polish majority who assimilates to the jewish minority if that happens and not the other way around...a curious belief to say it politely!
Who said that? Not me, not anyone else.
How come you always talk about "jewish roots of Poland" then all the time?
I think you'd better learn a new technique of discourse. Otherwis it just looks like you're disagreeing with yourself.
ROFL:)
You don't even know the meaning of the word "roots" and think ethnicity is the same as culture.
Back to school with you! ;)
Remember it happens both ways.
I said it from the beginning but somehow you think it is the polish majority who assimilates to the jewish minority if that happens and not the other way around...a curious belief to say it politely!
Bratwurst Boy
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]
There is ethnicity AND there is culture!
Your DNA might point you to germanic, slavic or celtic ethnicity (often a mix) and you might grow up still with the culture of a Pole or a German or whatever.
Is Poland in it's majority formed culturally or ethnically by Jews?
Nope...hence no jewish roots of Poland.
Jewish cultural influence? Of course!
Were there influential Jews in Germany? For sure...has Germany jewish roots, nope here either.
Where there Jews who assimilated and left their jewish heritage behind to adapt to german or polish culture, you bet!
The typical exception who proves the rule.
You wouldn't bring him if he wouldn't be so rare in Germany and you know it! ;)
thelocal.de/society/20090125-16987.html
Published: 25 Jan 09 10:15 CET
Online: thelocal.de/society/20090125-16987.html
Ethnicity is about culture. Not DNA.
There is ethnicity AND there is culture!
Your DNA might point you to germanic, slavic or celtic ethnicity (often a mix) and you might grow up still with the culture of a Pole or a German or whatever.
Is Poland in it's majority formed culturally or ethnically by Jews?
Nope...hence no jewish roots of Poland.
Jewish cultural influence? Of course!
Were there influential Jews in Germany? For sure...has Germany jewish roots, nope here either.
Where there Jews who assimilated and left their jewish heritage behind to adapt to german or polish culture, you bet!
This good-looking Turkish humanoid is a popular politician among the German youth and is member of a popular party. So much for discrimination not?
The typical exception who proves the rule.
You wouldn't bring him if he wouldn't be so rare in Germany and you know it! ;)
thelocal.de/society/20090125-16987.html
Study says Turks are Germany's worst integrated immigrants
Published: 25 Jan 09 10:15 CET
Online: thelocal.de/society/20090125-16987.html
A new study shows that immigrants of Turkish origin in Germany lag behind other migrant groups when it comes to education and jobs, news magazine Der Spiegel reported.
"For too long we've been used to the fact that we have primary school classes in which 80 percent of the children don't understand German," he said.
Bratwurst Boy
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]
Facts do neither for you, don't they!
Hell, what is your problem....eating it doesn't make it german!
Chinese food does also not become german just because it's eaten by Germans!
Has chinese food german roots next????
(I mean it is cooked in Germany..and served in german restaurants...oopsie...must be of german roots undoubtely!)
This sentence does not make any sense. At all.
Facts do neither for you, don't they!
Germans (of whatever ethnic background, but mostly the aboriginal ones) eating them on an evening out don't feel they're leaving their German comfort zone.
Hell, what is your problem....eating it doesn't make it german!
Chinese food does also not become german just because it's eaten by Germans!
Has chinese food german roots next????
(I mean it is cooked in Germany..and served in german restaurants...oopsie...must be of german roots undoubtely!)
Bratwurst Boy
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]
As long as you don't say: "german culture has oriental roots" - fine! ;)
It is against my logic calling something a root of something totally different...I like facts better...
Poland has no more jewish roots than Germany has - even if there has been many good times between Jews and Poles or Jews and Germans and many bad times.
Poland has polish roots and Germany has german roots!
That is all there is actually.
your German culture is slowly becoming more and more oriental.
As long as you don't say: "german culture has oriental roots" - fine! ;)
Do you see cross-cultural influences as 'a problem'or an idisputable sociological fact?
It is against my logic calling something a root of something totally different...I like facts better...
Poland has no more jewish roots than Germany has - even if there has been many good times between Jews and Poles or Jews and Germans and many bad times.
Poland has polish roots and Germany has german roots!
That is all there is actually.
Bratwurst Boy
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]
Well...British isn't a nationality (they really suffer from their centuries as Empire)...but English would be. I doubt many English would call Chicken Tikkala Massala having english roots
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_cuisine#Traditional_cuisine
Some people really seem to have problems with the defination of the word ROOTS! ;)
Alone the naming of "Tikkala Massala" or "Doner Kebab" should be a really big hint that they are nothing native/indigenous of either England or Germany!
Very much a part of British culture now.
Well...British isn't a nationality (they really suffer from their centuries as Empire)...but English would be. I doubt many English would call Chicken Tikkala Massala having english roots
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_cuisine#Traditional_cuisine
Some people really seem to have problems with the defination of the word ROOTS! ;)
Alone the naming of "Tikkala Massala" or "Doner Kebab" should be a really big hint that they are nothing native/indigenous of either England or Germany!
Bratwurst Boy
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]
Okay...let me see if I get that right:
Some words IMPORTED from another country and used by an isolated minority found their way into the polish language somehow count in your world as "having jewish roots in Poland"???
You've got to be kidding!
It is already commonplace and even yummy but I don't know anyone who would call THAT german culture (compared to the currywurst or the Bratwurst for example).
The same with equally popular chinese food or similiar...all very nice but Germans can normally differentiate very well between german culture and non-german culture...
If you have a problem with that....your problem, really! ;)
I said there are words in the Polish language from Yiddish.
Okay...let me see if I get that right:
Some words IMPORTED from another country and used by an isolated minority found their way into the polish language somehow count in your world as "having jewish roots in Poland"???
You've got to be kidding!
Doner kebabs are a culinary innovation of Germany. One day they'll be part of Germany's cultural roots
It is already commonplace and even yummy but I don't know anyone who would call THAT german culture (compared to the currywurst or the Bratwurst for example).
The same with equally popular chinese food or similiar...all very nice but Germans can normally differentiate very well between german culture and non-german culture...
If you have a problem with that....your problem, really! ;)
Bratwurst Boy
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]
And for those roots coming out of Germany it would even be true! :)
And for those roots coming out of Germany it would even be true! :)
Bratwurst Boy
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]
Maybe we should redefine the meaning of the word "root"???
Germany too has alot of kebab shops and turkish culture...doesn't mean german culture has turkish "roots"! ;)
PS:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiddish_language
Belonging to the roots of Poland? Don't think so....;)
These are the Jewish roots of Poland.
Maybe we should redefine the meaning of the word "root"???
Germany too has alot of kebab shops and turkish culture...doesn't mean german culture has turkish "roots"! ;)
There are words in the language from Yiddish.
PS:
Yiddish (ייִדיש yidish or אידיש idish, literally "Jewish") is a non-territorial High German language of Jewish origin, ...
The language originated in the Ashkenazi culture that developed from about the 10th century in the Rhineland...
The language originated in the Ashkenazi culture that developed from about the 10th century in the Rhineland...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yiddish_language
Belonging to the roots of Poland? Don't think so....;)
Bratwurst Boy
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]
But the child has the genetic heritage of both, it is not fully jewish. If it grows up as Pole it will never be part of the jewish roots of Poland.
Fully agree, all historians say similiar.
That's why it was possible for Jews across Europe to NOT have any significant impact on the genetic pool of their host countries. As I say again - DNA influence goes BOTH ways!
It is really a curious way of thinking to believe intermingling of Jews with the native people has only consequences for the non-jews! ;)
There is not much difference in the first place as there are only 3 big tribes (Celtics, Germanics and Slavs) in the first place.
Celtics and Germanics intermingled and mixed for millennia, the same there where Germanics and Slavs meet and mix - but all are european natives, Jews were not!...
I can use the word "mixing" instead if you like this one better?
The man walks away, the woman brings the child up.
But the child has the genetic heritage of both, it is not fully jewish. If it grows up as Pole it will never be part of the jewish roots of Poland.
The DNA influence from outside is small. Important to them.
Fully agree, all historians say similiar.
That's why it was possible for Jews across Europe to NOT have any significant impact on the genetic pool of their host countries. As I say again - DNA influence goes BOTH ways!
It is really a curious way of thinking to believe intermingling of Jews with the native people has only consequences for the non-jews! ;)
For the European gentiles, with DNA from here, there and everywhere, that isn't so clear.
There is not much difference in the first place as there are only 3 big tribes (Celtics, Germanics and Slavs) in the first place.
Celtics and Germanics intermingled and mixed for millennia, the same there where Germanics and Slavs meet and mix - but all are european natives, Jews were not!...
'Dilute' means 'to weaken'. Do you think mixing DNA weakens something and therefore 'racial purity' strengthens it?
I can use the word "mixing" instead if you like this one better?
Bratwurst Boy
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]
Where is your logic jonni?
You spoke of adultery...breaking of rules of the society...yes it happened. But as you say it it sounds as if only the christians are left with the aftermath, not the Jews...that is just not logical..always both parts "dilute" their gene pool (if they make kids that is).
And the law still stands, a tiny minority suffers much more from diluting of their genes than the majority.
Don't you agree?
Where is your logic jonni?
You spoke of adultery...breaking of rules of the society...yes it happened. But as you say it it sounds as if only the christians are left with the aftermath, not the Jews...that is just not logical..always both parts "dilute" their gene pool (if they make kids that is).
And the law still stands, a tiny minority suffers much more from diluting of their genes than the majority.
Bratwurst Boy
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]
Well...it goes both ways jonni.
Who do you think dilutes it's genepool more? The overwhelming majority or a tiny minority???
Easy math here...not the tiny minority will imprint itself on the majority but to the contrary, they will become assimilated into the majority (if they don't isolate themself).
Well, if that one is rarely existent in a society (besides some exotic restaurants) can you then still speak of "important part of the roots and heritage"?
there must be plenty of Jewish DNA in the Polish genepool
Well...it goes both ways jonni.
Who do you think dilutes it's genepool more? The overwhelming majority or a tiny minority???
Easy math here...not the tiny minority will imprint itself on the majority but to the contrary, they will become assimilated into the majority (if they don't isolate themself).
Aren't these the real roots, much more than bits of ancestry?
Well, if that one is rarely existent in a society (besides some exotic restaurants) can you then still speak of "important part of the roots and heritage"?
Bratwurst Boy
2 Jan 2010
Bratwurst Boy
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]
Well, till now no DNA tests on european populations found a significant "jewish gene" in them, so we can scratch that theory too! ;)
DNA tests were invented.
Well, till now no DNA tests on european populations found a significant "jewish gene" in them, so we can scratch that theory too! ;)
Bratwurst Boy
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]
You are losing me here Plastic,
You just talked about jewish traditions as the core of being jewish, not genetics!
And didn't JoeP say that the eastern Jews ARE actually from the East (Khazars) and not from the ME in the first place???
You are losing me here Plastic,
You just talked about jewish traditions as the core of being jewish, not genetics!
And didn't JoeP say that the eastern Jews ARE actually from the East (Khazars) and not from the ME in the first place???
Bratwurst Boy
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]
The topic was about genetics, ja?
If you point at culture and food and traditions then there is even less reason to say that most of the Poles (or Germans for that matter) have jewish heritage today...
That would also mean that all those jewish kids who grew up as non-jews to save them from the Nazis are still lost to the jewish tribe..
Food is a big part of being Jewish.
The topic was about genetics, ja?
If you point at culture and food and traditions then there is even less reason to say that most of the Poles (or Germans for that matter) have jewish heritage today...
That would also mean that all those jewish kids who grew up as non-jews to save them from the Nazis are still lost to the jewish tribe..
Bratwurst Boy
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]
Well, their funny interpretions aside...if two different parts get a child together it will always have both sides in their heritage, if they like that fact or not! ;)
Another common fact is that always the smaller group assimilates into the bigger group (besides examples if the smaller group has and uses means to totally over come the majority in some way OR the smaller group isolates itself from the majority)
The Jews paid a high price all their time in Europe for not assimilating...
Not according the Orthodox Jews.
Well, their funny interpretions aside...if two different parts get a child together it will always have both sides in their heritage, if they like that fact or not! ;)
Another common fact is that always the smaller group assimilates into the bigger group (besides examples if the smaller group has and uses means to totally over come the majority in some way OR the smaller group isolates itself from the majority)
The Jews paid a high price all their time in Europe for not assimilating...
Bratwurst Boy
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]
But that would then only be "half-jews", wouldn't they? ;)
The race laws work here also...there are always big discussions between the rabbis, even today "who is a jew"? Intermarriage with non-Jews seen as biggest danger to world jewry!
Fact is, had the Jews intermingled with the native Europeans that much they would had stopped to be Jews.
judaism.about.com/od/interfaithfamilies/a/intermarr_jew_2.htm
It wasn't for nothing that even after many centuries of living side by side, even experiencing times of nearly full assimilation, accepted integration, Hitler was able to pluck most of them out of the native Germans at the first try...
A jewish woman can marry anyone and all her children will be Jewish.
But that would then only be "half-jews", wouldn't they? ;)
The race laws work here also...there are always big discussions between the rabbis, even today "who is a jew"? Intermarriage with non-Jews seen as biggest danger to world jewry!
Fact is, had the Jews intermingled with the native Europeans that much they would had stopped to be Jews.
judaism.about.com/od/interfaithfamilies/a/intermarr_jew_2.htm
...
In the past, Jewish intermarriage was rare.
It generally occurred when a Jew deliberately rejected his/her religion and heritage and sought to assimilate into Christian society.
In response to this rejection, the Jewish community disowned intermarried Jews. It was common for Jewish parents to sit shiva (Jewish mourning ritual) for children who intermarried.
In the past, Jewish intermarriage was rare.
It generally occurred when a Jew deliberately rejected his/her religion and heritage and sought to assimilate into Christian society.
In response to this rejection, the Jewish community disowned intermarried Jews. It was common for Jewish parents to sit shiva (Jewish mourning ritual) for children who intermarried.
It wasn't for nothing that even after many centuries of living side by side, even experiencing times of nearly full assimilation, accepted integration, Hitler was able to pluck most of them out of the native Germans at the first try...
Bratwurst Boy
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]
There were always exceptions of the rule (what only shows the rule). Of course the situation changed after WWII but then there weren't that many Jews to intermarry with left...
After all IF the Jews had integrated into the christian majority in that way as it would need to seed their genes that much there wouldn't had been a jewish culture to speak of for centuries anymore.
They needed their isolation to survive as culture...
And on the other hand, the other foreign, wandering culture in Europe are the Zigeuner (Sinti and Roma), next one will say the most Europeans have actually Zigeuner roots??? ;)
Are you sure it's always been that way, or just until recently? What about the story of Esterke?
There were always exceptions of the rule (what only shows the rule). Of course the situation changed after WWII but then there weren't that many Jews to intermarry with left...
After all IF the Jews had integrated into the christian majority in that way as it would need to seed their genes that much there wouldn't had been a jewish culture to speak of for centuries anymore.
They needed their isolation to survive as culture...
And on the other hand, the other foreign, wandering culture in Europe are the Zigeuner (Sinti and Roma), next one will say the most Europeans have actually Zigeuner roots??? ;)
Bratwurst Boy
2 Jan 2010
Genealogy / Jewish Roots of Poland [638]
There was a topic some times back telling the same about Germany....
According to some people 90 percent of Europe MUST be some kind of jewish....really astounding if you look at such a tiny people repeatedly kicked out and harassed over the centuries.
And totally crap too, especially as most Jews prefered to keep "pure" to keep their religion and heritage alive and lived mostly voluntarily in their sthetls/ghettoes most of the time anyhow!
After all a Jew is only a Jew if his mother is jewish, right? And I doubt there were many christian women ready to convert to Judaism before...at least not in such huge piles as it would had been necessary.
There was a topic some times back telling the same about Germany....
According to some people 90 percent of Europe MUST be some kind of jewish....really astounding if you look at such a tiny people repeatedly kicked out and harassed over the centuries.
And totally crap too, especially as most Jews prefered to keep "pure" to keep their religion and heritage alive and lived mostly voluntarily in their sthetls/ghettoes most of the time anyhow!
After all a Jew is only a Jew if his mother is jewish, right? And I doubt there were many christian women ready to convert to Judaism before...at least not in such huge piles as it would had been necessary.
Bratwurst Boy
31 Dec 2009
History / Polish-German alliance. [489]
Hell, the Anglo-Saxons before that were a Germanic people! ;)
Normans were Germanic people
Hell, the Anglo-Saxons before that were a Germanic people! ;)
Bratwurst Boy
31 Dec 2009
History / Polish-German alliance. [489]
Again....tell me more about this "position" Germany isn't allowed in? ;)
get a life, learn from history don't keep argyuing about it.it happened.
Again....tell me more about this "position" Germany isn't allowed in? ;)
Bratwurst Boy
31 Dec 2009
History / Polish-German alliance. [489]
What position???
And who do you think is going to do this "allowing" or "not allowing"? Britain??? ;)
germany can not be allowed to be in that position again.
What position???
And who do you think is going to do this "allowing" or "not allowing"? Britain??? ;)
Bratwurst Boy
28 Dec 2009
Bratwurst Boy
13 Dec 2009
News / Dalai Lama says: "POLAND HAS RETAINED ITS SPIRIT" [77]
Heeey....it's you declaring others for "dysfunctional"!
(I found that funny all the time) ;)
That's a strange concept after all, generalizing whole peoples like that....
Well, richness doesn't come easy to a country without many natural resources to speak of..
And France and Italy were "überfunctional" in their heydays too...
You are just to crass in your judgement...
Poles didnt give the world so many thinkers and scientists i give you that but as far as military achievement we surpassed everyone, going so far as to occupy Moscow, twice and having our prince becoming a Tzar so i guess we must have not been so dysfunctional after all.
Heeey....it's you declaring others for "dysfunctional"!
(I found that funny all the time) ;)
That's a strange concept after all, generalizing whole peoples like that....
Not really you're just rich and you've always been bordering someone who had you on edge, first it was powerfull Poland, then it was powerfull Austria and then Russia so you never let your society slide like France or Italy did.
Well, richness doesn't come easy to a country without many natural resources to speak of..
And France and Italy were "überfunctional" in their heydays too...
You are just to crass in your judgement...
Bratwurst Boy
13 Dec 2009
News / Dalai Lama says: "POLAND HAS RETAINED ITS SPIRIT" [77]
Well...we are an exceptional people...
Germanics conquered the globe, no other people has given the world so many thinkers, scientists, writers, poets, musicians....and even in war and killing we are the best!
It fits somehow!
We are just to good and successful when we put our minds and energies to it....so beware! ;)
(We are "überfunctional"!)
Say's a grandson of a Nazi soldier, how does it feel to have the greatest genocide in the history of the human race in your non-dysfunctional nations history books:))))
Well...we are an exceptional people...
Germanics conquered the globe, no other people has given the world so many thinkers, scientists, writers, poets, musicians....and even in war and killing we are the best!
It fits somehow!
We are just to good and successful when we put our minds and energies to it....so beware! ;)
(We are "überfunctional"!)