News /
Polish final report on Smoleńsk aircrash [870]
So what? You think if a plane goes down it can only be the fault of the pilot? You don't have much of an imagination do you?
Given that the CVR makes it clear that they were planning to go to minimums to have a look and all evidence shows absolutely nothing wrong with the plane to the 130m mark - in this case, its pretty obvious that it's pilot error. CFIT is the cause of what, around 33% of crashes?
I think you have a hatred for Poland for whatever reason. I think this is 'Katyn 2' and just like the original Katyn, we will probably only find out the truth in about, oh, say, 70 years time or so. Until then we have to listen to lots of people, including mainstream media, tell us it is all conspiracy theories.
Why do you insist on spreading pain for the families? There are certainly plenty of families who have publicly said that they wish that people would just shut up and stop spreading conspiracy theories.
Unqualifed? In what way unqualified? Had they never been pilots on a plane before?
Aviation works in the same way as driving a lorry is these days - you require constant professional training and checks for your licence to be valid. No training = unqualified. And when you look at the experience of some of those in the cockpit and their lack of time in the TU-154M, you realise that the PAF really did make a total mess of things. Just like in Mirosławiec.
Well then you might as well be using MAK since a government run report with supposedly 'neutral' experts is not much short of a farce.
Careful, WP. The report was commissioned by the legal Polish government and conducted by people who know their stuff.
Did you ever think that this might be because they thought they were somewhere else to where they were and when they were told there was terrain ahead, it was too late to do anything even when they pulled up? I doubt that someone flying a plane with almost no visibility would be ignoring commands not to land and just going for it.
All this stuff about "flying somewhere else to where they were" is not borne out by the evidence. In those conditions, it was totally and perfectly legal to fly down to 130m to "have a look". If they spotted the runway - great - they could land. But if they didn't, they were obliged to go around while a decision was made as to what to do next.
They were almost certainly (as the CVR suggests) planning to have a look to see if they could spot the runway. It would certainly be easier to tell the powers that be that they couldn't land if they already had had a look - rather than not attempting a landing full stop. While PAR+2NDB approaches aren't particularly good for such planes, it would still be enough to get them in a position where they might have been able to spot the runway. If they had managed to spot the runway at that point - then they would've had a chance at making the landing.
And as I keep saying - if they had pulled up at 130m, they would have been safe. It was really a matter of seconds between "safe" and "doomed". In fact, one theory is that the Captain pressed a button to execute an automatic go-around - except that button only worked when using an ILS approach. If you think about the time spent to realise that the button wasn't working and to make a different plan, it might already have been too late. As for why he made such a mistake - his experience (as listed in the Polish report) was that he was mainly flying to main, commercial airports. Easy mistake to make.
Well you see we must be getting our information from completely different sources because I was reading that he was not in the cockpit.
He certainly was there and reading out the height readings.
Like I said a Polish report where the only way to shut this case up is to make the Polish side look incompetent. If it points the finger at Russians, then it has to deal with them, and PO does not want problems with the Russians right now.
The report pointed quite a few fingers at the Russians. I'm not sure why you seem to think that it doesn't - have you read it? The stuff about the communication between the tower and Moscow makes very interesting reading.
Nothing has been abandoned. They still talk about it a lot, the mainstream media just does not show any of this [although you might catch something on TVP info every now and then].
They have gone rather quiet recently about it - ever since Kaczynski changed tactics. We used to hear Kaczynski bring it up endlessly - now he's quiet. Same with others - Macierewicz would always be ranting about it somewhere, but now, all quiet.
I am not so sure it was. By the way what do you have to say about items of victims not being given back to families or bodies having dirt sown in to them? No suspicion or obvious disrespect there?
I think you need to remember that Poles were involved too - and Poles are hardly blameless when it comes to accident victims in the past! Either way, it sounds like typical Russian incompetence if it's true. As for the cremation - you really shouldn't speculate like that.
He has not been silenced. You are just looking at the wrong media. He still has plenty to say and is still investigating with experts. He just does not get any opportunities to speak about this on mainstream TV although he was invited to TVP info not long ago where he had a lot to say on the issue.
Why would they suddenly stop talking about it when he's been talking about it for months all over the mainstream media? The guy has been silenced by his own party, no matter what you say - the electorate does not like to hear about Smolensk.
The key is where have you been reading a great deal about the subject? Gazeta Wyborcza? Other government friendly anti PiS publications? Different media and books say different stuff don't they.
No, I was reading accident reports from different plane crashes. Nothing to do with PiS, PO, Gazeta Wyborcza or anyone in Poland.
Accidents are brutal. Someone being slammed at 200mph upside down into a chair is going to lose limbs, there's no doubt about that.
answers.yahoo/question/index?qid=20070801181103AAk36fY
take a read here - sure, it's Yahoo Answers, but the stuff is the same idea.
And read this -
popularmechanics.com/technology/aviation/crashes/Smolensk-Plane-Crash-Error
- the article isn't quite factually correct as the investigations revealed what really happened, but the stuff about what causes plane crashes is.
But it turns out that the problem was not with the aircraft at all, but with the pilot, who broke the rules of instrument navigation while on final approach to the airport. This violation, called "busting minimums," is a common form of pilot error, which makes up three-quarters of all general aviation fatalities (pdf) in the United States.
What makes you think that a unqualified pilot under immense stress (particularly with his boss in the cockpit) wouldn't crack under such pressure, especially as he had some history with the President?
WP - ask yourself one question - why couldn't it be an accident? The institutional failures within the PAF were well known - Mirosławiec was almost identical, particularly with the loss of spatial awareness.
And more to the point - you seem convinced that they've been altering the evidence. Have you considered that perhaps the political opposition (led by a man who is well known to believe that Tusk stole the Government from him) is capable of doing that, too? Perhaps they might want to alter the evidence for political motives? They certainly have plenty to gain by convincing people that the Polish government is responsible.
